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Message 1368232 - Posted: 15 May 2013, 18:10:57 UTC
Last modified: 15 May 2013, 18:11:32 UTC

She's a loose cannon, UKIP are welcome

Loose canon, is this in reality just a tag we attach to those M.P's who choose
not to continue further in following the party line.
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Message 1368238 - Posted: 15 May 2013, 18:38:20 UTC - in response to Message 1368236.  

Basically yes. Because of their views and behaviour, they damage the Party that they are supposed to support, and were elected to represent on behalf of their constituents. Dorries should either stand as an Independent, join UKIP, or just shut up.


So in other words, she's just a glorified muppet looking out for herself.

Thanks for confirming my views of those who ARE SUPPOSED to govern us!

So the muppet tag is justified after all......


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Message 1368260 - Posted: 15 May 2013, 19:45:28 UTC - in response to Message 1368236.  
Last modified: 15 May 2013, 19:47:39 UTC

Basically yes. Because of their views and behaviour, they damage the Party that they are supposed to support, and were elected to represent on behalf of their constituents. Dorries should either stand as an Independent, join UKIP, or just shut up.

Yes, but then does any one party actually hold policies that most of the party
members support. The answer to this is most probably no and that most members
of all the separate parties would like to see some policies changed. Potentially
therefore there must be many disgruntled party members across the whole board.
How should this be then? Mathematically then the more policies you have the
less chance you have of having a majority of party members supporting you on
any individual policy adopted or to be adopted. To overcome this during voting
on policies you use the "Whip" to get all in the party to vote along the party
line on that policy....which naturally will upset members. Surely the easiest
way to get the vast majority of the party members to support the parties policies
is if you were to have less policies in the first place. That way hardly any
party members will have joined your party if the one or two policies you had
they did not like in the first place.....sounds like having less government to
me may solve the "Loose canons" syndrome.
The Kite Fliers

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Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.
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Message 1368301 - Posted: 15 May 2013, 23:40:33 UTC

I'm just wondering guys weather the Tory's are up to dirty tricks . Over here John Howard the ex pm and ex leader of the Liberal party(tory) used dirty tricks to kill off the Democrates party set up by a senator called Donald chip his moto was we'll keep the bastards honest he never one any election but did win seats in the senate and they held the power there both the Lib's and Labour had to do what he wanted as he usually had the majority . Most people here would vote Labour or Liberal in the house of reps but voted Dem in the senate it worked great for years good old Don chip did keep the bastards honest until he died . Then the Lib's came up with this plan to plant one of there own in the Dem's rank's with the sole perpose of destroying the Dem's in the eyes of the voter's and it worked to . I was rather pissed off with Johnny for what he did and i'm wondering if the Tory's over there where thinking of doing the same type of thing to the Ukip party but this silly women mite have let the cat outa the bag .
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Message 1368446 - Posted: 16 May 2013, 14:11:43 UTC - in response to Message 1368432.  

@Sirius

So in other words, she's just a glorified muppet looking out for herself. Thanks for confirming my views of those who ARE SUPPOSED to govern us! So the muppet tag is justified after all....

No not at all, you have chosen to interpret my remarks in that way, for your own purposes.


Sorry, BIG FAIL! There is only one way to interpret this: -

Dorries should either stand as an Independent, join UKIP, or just shut up.


Back to the transport infrastructure: -

The issue here is a catch-22 situation.

1: Our road/rail/air systems are vastly outdated & definitely require updating/modernisation.

2: Not at this time! It should have all been done during prosperous times, not during a time of austerity.

3: Why was it not discussed/designed/implemented earlier? Too much money leaving the trough maybe?

HS2 benefits "unclear"

Does an economic need for HS2 really exist?

I like her initial comment: -

"I like high-speed trains. I really do. Every time I travel on a French or German one I wish we had more of them in the UK."

Here's where I do agree with you to a degree: - At least 50% of road freight should be done by rail (WE did have that capacity at one time).

Too many lorries are on the roads with a full load going to a single destination, i.e., I've done the Liverpool one & it took 13 hours in total. Had that been done by rail, it would have taken 4 to 6 hours total including unloading.

As for multi drops, based on previous experience & knowledge of our railways, the Cambridge/London/Portsmouth run IMV would be a close run with the lorry winning by a head. If one takes out the time not driving, then the lorry wins by miles. The only way to bypass that would be to have cost effective freight rates with competent staff at all points - herein lies the problem......

Trade Unions, Civil Servants & Ministers looking out for themselves instead of the country.
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Message 1368478 - Posted: 16 May 2013, 16:16:06 UTC

You need to understand how local and national government works, and also political parties, which clearly you don't. If all your knowledge comes from the media who feed you what they want you to believe for their own nefarious purposes, then that would generally explain your views.

Same old rhetoric...
The Kite Fliers

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belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.
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Message 1368500 - Posted: 16 May 2013, 17:28:09 UTC
Last modified: 16 May 2013, 17:54:34 UTC

Does an economic need for HS2 really exist?

What we will see is an element of redistribution of wealth flowing from London
out to Birmingham. Whether this goes on to manifest itself in other ways like
increased business and commerce activity over and above that already in place
in these two regions combined remains to be seen. The latter is the Government
gambit and the question is, "Can this high speed railway accomplish that"?
...and the answer is, "No one knows". So would you invest £32 billion or even more
in an enterprises that the returns for you are uncertain. The answer to that
will be,"No". Especially so if the investors in this enterprise are unable to
construct a business plan that produces figure that are considered robust under
close scrutiny. I think the government has become blinded by the notion that
spending on construction is always a good way to kick-start a flagging economy.
May be it can be, but on this occasion will upgrading an old railway line be
anywhere near as effective. The answer, I think is, "No". Because, the
investment is too centralised around two cities with intervening major towns
gaining no long term or short term economical benefits. The more who benefit from
an improved infrastructure so the more financial benefits will be gained
overall, hence the greater impact on GDP growth.
The Kite Fliers

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Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.
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Message 1368615 - Posted: 16 May 2013, 19:56:35 UTC - in response to Message 1368566.  

& the broad overall picture is one of linking major cities together - where all the votes are & the most money to be made.

No plans in place for the towns & villages to restart growth & employment. No votes or dosh in them for the pigs swimming in the trough!
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Message 1368633 - Posted: 16 May 2013, 20:58:40 UTC - in response to Message 1368626.  

Still stuck in your 1850's civil service closet I see.

As you're retired, save some money & take a tour throughout England & I mean the REAL England - not the overpopulated cities where anything goes & most often than not - does!

You'll find services such as post offices, banks, village pubs disappearing - all which are the heart of those villages.

& why? Simple, not enough profit in them for the fatcats.
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Message 1368660 - Posted: 16 May 2013, 21:58:50 UTC

You need to look at the broad overall picture.

That's the stumbling block, for the overall picture does not relate to the reason
why business and commerce has shunned those northern areas. It can't be because
of the lack of fast transport links to these areas else this would have been
solved when the construction of airports initially came about up there.
Rail today is all about moving people mainly to and from their places of
employment. Do people from the south commute north, for work, because there aren't
enough people north to satisfy workforce demands or because there is insufficient
employment opportunities south to satisfy jobs demand. Neither, because of the
existing transport infrastructure people have a choice today in travelling further
afield to seek work, that's all, all because of the availability of transport that
permit them to do so. So the vexed questions is, "Why should business, home and
international in nature, wish to set-up business in the north just because we have
suddenly increased the speed of connection to one of our rail links going there.
It can't be because this will increase the availability of workers, there's
plenty available there already. It can't be because we now have a rail link
there for we already have several that have been there for 120 years.
So what is it about this fast rail link that is going to transform the wealth
of the north other than redistribute a small amount of business from the south
to the north.


The Kite Fliers

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Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.
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Message 1368900 - Posted: 17 May 2013, 13:44:37 UTC - in response to Message 1368818.  

Damnmit, when will you learn? That was a truly excellent post but it only gets a B+ because of: -

Nope, far from it, if anything I am far more forward looking than you are! You tend to lament the past whilst not embracing the future.


The main infrastructures of a country always have to keep up with the times or otherwise it gets left behind.

That doesn't mean putting the major cities first & last leaving the rest of the country to stew in its own juices!

I've never lamented the past, just fed up of politicians that use the past as an excuse & also those that try to destroy it - for an example, take labour & their education policies.

Those that don't look to the past & learn from it are committed to making the same mistakes of the past!

The political system of this country is a 300 year old dinosaur that is so out of place in this 21st century world of yours. Its time it was replaced with a system that does work & one that will succeed for the next 300 years.

Hows that for future looking!
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Message 1368906 - Posted: 17 May 2013, 14:02:32 UTC - in response to Message 1368891.  

When you are a government planning the future of the country's infrastructure you have to think 40-50 years ahead. What will the population figures be? What will they need in terms of pensions, NHS services, rail, roads, airports? It takes 10 years to plan, consult, and get approval, and another 20 years to build anything. By the time you finally get it, it's out of date anyway, so you start all over again. And finally, OK so hundreds of people will have their nose put out of joint by the building of HS2, but that has to be judged against the future prosperity of the whole country running to 10's of millions of people. the UK is a big player in Europe and the rest of the world, whether or not we sever political ties with Europe. If we want to be in there at the top competing with the best we meed to follow their lead. Take a look at French and German railways and the Japanese, and see how far we are behind already.


Not necessarily true. Just visit Hanover, Hamburg, Cologne, Munich, Berlin & other German cities that had their guts blown to bits. Britain greatly assisted in the design & rebuilding of them which on my first visit to Germany, was truly amazed at the cleanliness of them & thoroughly enjoyed walking through the centres.

Superb layouts, yet was dismayed at the rebuilding of London - one big cesspit!

& before you throw the past back at me - wasn't it the same time period with the same designers? What stopped them from doing the same for London?

Simple enough answer! Too many NIMBY's in the civil Service! A terrific example of that is the story of Geoffrey De Havilland & the Mosquito.

Yep, we really can learn from the past by doing one's best to avoid catastrophic mistakes.....

....the question is though....

Can We/Will We
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Message 1368907 - Posted: 17 May 2013, 14:07:57 UTC - in response to Message 1368808.  

Thank you Sirius for hosting a thread were the excessively pedantic can spew their bits.
i lean to more compact expression of ideology but do admire your ability to elicit random diatribes from the unwary.
i've apologized to you in the past, and do so again in perpetuity,...

You Rock Dude.


One for you to keep rocking...... :)

Hey Bo
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Message 1368937 - Posted: 17 May 2013, 15:04:43 UTC - in response to Message 1368927.  

Too many NIMBY's in the civil Service! A terrific example of that is the story of Geoffrey De Havilland & the Mosquito.

I don't quite see what you are getting at here. The DH98 had a struggle to get backing, but was very successful.


De Havilland approached the Air Ministry with designs for the Mosquito but was turned down as the government was too involved in production of the Spitfire & Lancaster - which, looking at that time was disheartingly acceptable.

However, the main aim was to get the war won & there was no fast fighter bomber in service, so De Havilland built it using his own money. When the R.A.F. saw the aircraft go through its paces, they demanded to know why it wasn't in mainstream production & in service.

When told the issues were at the Air Ministry, it got resolved not long after....

..would've loved to be a fly on the wall at that meeting!
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Message 1368972 - Posted: 17 May 2013, 15:50:28 UTC - in response to Message 1368969.  
Last modified: 17 May 2013, 15:56:17 UTC

From a documentary on De Havilland. Think I've still got a copy somewhere on VHS. I'll dig it out when I have time.

Edit: there's a lot of info that came out during the 60's & 70's with the relevant personnel involved during 1936-1944 that are based on the individuals themselves with no confirmed documentation available to back them up.

However, over the last 30 years or so, many historians have come across freshly released documents which confirm in some cases & alludes in others that the official history of that period is still clouded in contradictory issues.

There's an old saying but often true....

"The Victors write history"
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Message 1368973 - Posted: 17 May 2013, 15:52:01 UTC

Well, we all agree on one topic, "Britain needs inner investment" It's just
deciding on what kind of investment will the most rewarding here.
Also, is it our 300 years old style of government that's part of the problem here
too.

The Kite Fliers

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Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.
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Message 1368978 - Posted: 17 May 2013, 16:02:10 UTC - in response to Message 1368973.  

Well, we all agree on one topic, "Britain needs inner investment" It's just
deciding on what kind of investment will the most rewarding here.
Also, is it our 300 years old style of government that's part of the problem here
too.



& to increase the funding without having to hit the taxpayer too hard is to : -

Reform the Tax Laws
Reform the Civil Service
Create an "Untouchables" division to root out corruption

& before Sir Humphrey butts in saying it is getting done.... It's not fast enough - the technology is available, the people are available, but the government are procrastinating - I wonder why?
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Message 1369069 - Posted: 17 May 2013, 19:24:47 UTC - in response to Message 1369033.  

Cabinet Office memo

For immediate press release

Reform the Tax Laws - agreed
Reform the Civil Service - agreed
Create an "Untouchables" division to root out corruption - agreed

It is getting done - agreed
It's not fast enough - agreed
The technology is available - just about
The people are available - possibly
But the government are procrastinating - rhetoric

Authorised

Sir Humphrey CDM + bar



& for those too young to remember what CDM was.....

CDM
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Message 1369176 - Posted: 18 May 2013, 0:26:30 UTC - in response to Message 1369069.  

Cabinet Office memo

For immediate press release

Reform the Tax Laws - agreed
Reform the Civil Service - agreed
Create an "Untouchables" division to root out corruption - agreed

It is getting done - agreed
It's not fast enough - agreed
The technology is available - just about
The people are available - possibly
But the government are procrastinating - rhetoric

Authorised

Sir Humphrey CDM + bar



& for those too young to remember what CDM was.....

CDM


yummmmmmmm

as I eat my last piece of CDM rocky road
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Message 1369294 - Posted: 18 May 2013, 10:17:58 UTC - in response to Message 1369285.  

Looks like another iconic High Street chain is biting the dust, following Woolworths et al.

W H Smith

Not sure I read the same article:
Quote Sales in its shops fell by 5 per cent in the six months to the end of February, but profits actually rose 5 per cent to £69 million.

So not exactly at deaths door then

Also
Dissatisfaction with WH Smith is not new, and it has been one of the lowest-rated shops for the last four years.

Bosses have introduced a string of cost cutting measures and the company holds a near-monopoly in hundreds of railway stations, leading to admiration in the City.

As I remember WH Smith shops have always been “messy and expensive”. Somehow though the one in Croydon always seems to have lots of customers!



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