Last Chance Hotel..come one, come all

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Nick
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Message 1367145 - Posted: 12 May 2013, 14:37:41 UTC
Last modified: 12 May 2013, 14:56:16 UTC

The problem will be in finding a suitable area within easy distance of London. All points north of London is no good as we'll lose a hell of a lot of business should they locate it too far from London.

Clearly Sirius somewhere bordering the M25 or dam'd close to it would be a
prerequisite...but where around this route though?...the reason why I favour
Farnham but still even here may not be the best place.

An exclusion zone void of urban development clearly makes sense or you operate a
strictly controlled urban development programme. Small local'ish developments -
housing for airport workers - with the pre-visor that it may get pulled down
one day because of future airport expansion plus if you buy the property you
buy the noise or any future increase in noise that comes with it. But still,
certainly a restricted area of at least three miles where no urban development
is permitted at any cost.
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Message 1367205 - Posted: 12 May 2013, 17:03:32 UTC - in response to Message 1367199.  

Good post. Unfortunately, a 3rd runway will be totally insufficient, especially with the larger aircraft coming online.

So catch 22. Unfortunately, London Airport to start with HAD hardly any urban development around it.

So the question is: -

What/Where next?
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Message 1367218 - Posted: 12 May 2013, 17:26:20 UTC - in response to Message 1367205.  
Last modified: 12 May 2013, 17:34:48 UTC

Good post. Unfortunately, a 3rd runway will be totally insufficient, especially with the larger aircraft coming online.

So catch 22. Unfortunately, London Airport to start with HAD hardly any urban development around it.

So the question is: -

What/Where next?

Exactly....What/Where.....the answer then has to be a new International
Airport.....but where?...Heathrow in the process will have to be wound down
quite a bit.

International carriers want to deposit their passengers to a point close to London with good transport links, and Heathrow currently provides that. If the hub of operations were to be moved elsewhere, then it is also going to affect all the ancillary airport operations as well. Surrounding Heathrow are freight handlers, baggage handlers, in-flight catering companies, cleaning services, you name it. They will not want to re-locate elsewhere.

They'll relocate to where the business goes and that will be to the bigger new
International Airport....Heathrow will have to lose it's status, if it can't
be expanded any further then it must be made redundant and pass up a major
slice of it's assets over to the new airport.
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Message 1367220 - Posted: 12 May 2013, 17:29:03 UTC - in response to Message 1367218.  

Good post. Unfortunately, a 3rd runway will be totally insufficient, especially with the larger aircraft coming online.

So catch 22. Unfortunately, London Airport to start with HAD hardly any urban development around it.

So the question is: -

What/Where next?

Exactly....What/Where.....the answer then has to be a new International
Airport.....but where?



Yep, with more than sufficient space to build a minimum of four runways to start with, with also enough remaining to add another 2 if required.

In 25/40 years, they will be!
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Message 1367223 - Posted: 12 May 2013, 17:40:27 UTC - in response to Message 1367218.  


International carriers want to deposit their passengers to a point close to London with good transport links, and Heathrow currently provides that. If the hub of operations were to be moved elsewhere, then it is also going to affect all the ancillary airport operations as well. Surrounding Heathrow are freight handlers, baggage handlers, in-flight catering companies, cleaning services, you name it. They will not want to re-locate elsewhere.

They'll relocate to where the business goes and that will be to the bigger new
International Airport....Heathrow will have to lose it's status, if it can't
be expanded any further then it must be made redundant and pass up a major
slice of it's assets over to the new airport.


& that's the problem Nick. If its done too far from London, you're going to hit at least two roadblocks.....

Rail & Road infrastructure. At the moment, they are pretty dismal. Should they decide to move it out of London & improve Road & Rail at the same time.....

...oops, where's the money going to come from in these "austere" times?
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Message 1367226 - Posted: 12 May 2013, 17:54:13 UTC

As they say Sirius, "Location - location - location"
Well, as you rightly state Sirius, "Rail & Road infrastructure" this can not be
ignored. The government has chosen to invest in these with regards connections
to Heathrow plus they intend to expand on this with HS2. If they want Heathrow
to stay as the principle International Airport then there going to have to brush
aside Chris's objection to clearing the North side of Heathrow....it's make your
mind up time for the Government.

The Kite Fliers

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Message 1367229 - Posted: 12 May 2013, 17:58:30 UTC - in response to Message 1367225.  

Question .....

Where do the airlines see their future expansion coming from? International flights to the Americas and the Far East, or European destinations? if 50/50 then one extra runway at Heathrow which is do-able, and one extra at Gatwick. At Gatwick there is room to expand South and North, but you are in stockbroker belt land so you would expect a lot of opposition.

Gatwick map

Far more scope to expand than Heathrow, and they have fast rail links into Central London.

Yes Chris, but I'll think you'll find that the airline operators do not wish to
have to spread their operation around several airports hence why so many fought
against being forced to operate out of Gatwick only.



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Message 1367242 - Posted: 12 May 2013, 18:40:15 UTC - in response to Message 1367230.  

I can see nothing wrong with LHR being long haul, and LGW being short haul?



Yep, sensible to all except nimby's of course. The problem here is that 2 new runways are needed, possibly 1 at each airport which should cover the increase in both long & short hauls.
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Message 1367246 - Posted: 12 May 2013, 18:44:43 UTC - in response to Message 1367230.  

Yes Chris, but I'll think you'll find that the airline operators do not wish to have to spread their operation around several airports hence why so many fought against being forced to operate out of Gatwick only.

I can see nothing wrong with LHR being long haul, and LGW being short haul?


....but it's when you wish to connect the two half's together that the problems
then start to occur. In Kuala Lumpur it takes but four minutes to switch from
a long haul flight over to a short haul via the metro train link between the two
sections. Each occupying their own side of the airport with plenty of room to
expand as required as will be required again since their last expansion was
carried out several years ago. If you could hop between Heathrow and Gatwick
in similar time then no real problems. But if the transfer link breaks down
then you'll need plenty of coaches available at very-very short notice, also
expect to spend about an hour or more getting between the two. Kuala Lumpur,
no problem, just expect to spend about fifteen minutes max to do the same job.

The Kite Fliers

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Message 1367255 - Posted: 12 May 2013, 19:22:01 UTC - in response to Message 1367246.  

& that friend is the major stumbling block! For the past 40 years or so, people have stopped looking long term as they're only interested in profits in their lifetimes - stuff the future!
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Message 1367282 - Posted: 12 May 2013, 20:04:03 UTC - in response to Message 1367255.  

& that friend is the major stumbling block! For the past 40 years or so, people have stopped looking long term as they're only interested in profits in their lifetimes - stuff the future!

...and now that they have finally realised it has little future left they
are now struggling within themselves to find a viable solution. No wonder some
of us have finally thrown the towel in with regards to our inept outdated and
backwards thinking ruddy system.

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Message 1367300 - Posted: 12 May 2013, 20:29:44 UTC

ooooha, Del-boy may just surprise us all after all......

referendum could now be a year early

....shame it isn't this year!
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Message 1367310 - Posted: 12 May 2013, 20:37:49 UTC - in response to Message 1367296.  
Last modified: 12 May 2013, 20:47:53 UTC

..and now that they have finally realised it has little future left they
are now struggling within themselves to find a viable solution. No wonder some
of us have finally thrown the towel in with regards to our inept outdated and
backwards thinking ruddy system.

You are making generalisations there. That is maybe how you think, that is not how others, and maybe the majority think. National Express operates a direct coach link between Heathrow and Gatwick Airports, with up to six services per hour. The journey time is approximately 75 minutes and the adult single fare is £25. This is in addition to the Gatwick Express train link. Should an extra runway happen at each airport, I would expect that the links would be greatly enhanced.


But you don't need this built-in inefficiency and unnecessary extra
infrastructure costs if you have then both sited basically under one roof.
Having long haul at Heathrow and short haul at Gatwick is simply a make-do
exercise and is simply not good enough...we can do better than this!!..
£25 to connect from a long haul flight to a short haul and vis versa,
costs nothing in many countries and it doesn't take 75 minutes neither.
No wonder Heathrow is growing out of favour these days...
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Message 1367316 - Posted: 12 May 2013, 20:50:56 UTC - in response to Message 1367312.  

ooooha, Del-boy may just surprise us all after all......

referendum could now be a year early


A vote now will be to come out because the papers say we should do. A vote in a couple of years will give us time to negotiate a better deal for the UK. If we can't, then we come out then.


The problem is Chris how will we know that they may have negotiated us a better
deal...we'll have only their word to go by...other countries have been down
a similar road in the past and were dam'd well lied to.


The Kite Fliers

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Message 1367317 - Posted: 12 May 2013, 20:51:08 UTC - in response to Message 1367312.  

ooooha, Del-boy may just surprise us all after all......

referendum could now be a year early


A vote now will be to come out because the papers say we should do. A vote in a couple of years will give us time to negotiate a better deal for the UK. If we can't, then we come out then.



If you believe that will happen then those of us more sensible will actually see pigs fly!
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Message 1367320 - Posted: 12 May 2013, 20:53:55 UTC - in response to Message 1367317.  

ooooha, Del-boy may just surprise us all after all......

referendum could now be a year early


A vote now will be to come out because the papers say we should do. A vote in a couple of years will give us time to negotiate a better deal for the UK. If we can't, then we come out then.



If you believe that will happen then those of us more sensible will actually see pigs fly!



The Kite Fliers

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belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.
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Message 1367322 - Posted: 12 May 2013, 20:54:39 UTC - in response to Message 1367321.  

Ok boys, have it your way. Getting late, I'll natter more tomorrow. Night :-)


Night Chris...

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Message 1367372 - Posted: 13 May 2013, 3:03:57 UTC

Sorry to be a bit late about your airport prob we got exactly the same prob here with Sydney but by the time they get around to building the second Airport out west there won't be any oil left so no noise prob's and no airport prob's .they could sound proof the homes around the airport like they did here milk the current airports for what ever they can get till the oil crunch comes and then redevelop the airports for residential housing and make a heap of cash and eveyrone win's

Sorry to butt in on this topic but we realy do have the same prob here gov's been saying for 30yrs we will build a second airport so what did they do build another runway 10yrs ago and they will still have to build the second airport now Sydney can't handle the traffic and by the time it's built if they do (greeny's complain ) the oil will run out and they would have wasted a couple hundred mil . Government geeeeeeees
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Message 1367460 - Posted: 13 May 2013, 13:33:13 UTC

The same again here to build the airport out far enough so it can be expanded in years to come they need trains motorways a huge cost and probably why it keeps being put on the back burner.

I used Google earth to check out my old school and house we used to live in at east ham and while I did I looked at a airport I think it was Heathrow and I was amazed how much development was around it . It looked like there was no room to expand it !
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Message 1368218 - Posted: 15 May 2013, 17:14:40 UTC

Running scared

you want to stop Labour getting in?

That's easy to answer Nadine.....

Get a strong leader

Dump the coalition

Sack the wimps, cowards, thieves

Think of the country rather than yourselves!
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