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Message 1349230 - Posted: 21 Mar 2013, 20:59:19 UTC - in response to Message 1349194.  

No doubt the Euro-Meisters behind the ECB, are using this situation, with its implied threat, to scare, Potugal, Spain, Italy, Ireland and others, to bend to it's 'democratic' will, or should that be, the will of the Borg or The Empire? Cyprus will just be another pawn casualty of a rather Machiavellian Federal Europe, as the people with deposits in the banks (upto a certain amount), are guaranteed their deposits under some Euro Law (which the ECB et al, were technically going to break), thus leaving the banking system in Cyprus decimated and those with deposits over the guaranteed amount, rather less well-off. The game is afoot!



Don't take life too seriously, as you'll never come out of it alive!
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Message 1349376 - Posted: 22 Mar 2013, 8:39:02 UTC - in response to Message 1349264.  

'ello you! Long time no see, I hope you are well :-)

I'm quite sure that Russia is negotiating hard behind the scenes to get an advantage from all this ...

So I might be right....


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Message 1349543 - Posted: 22 Mar 2013, 18:48:51 UTC - in response to Message 1349388.  
Last modified: 22 Mar 2013, 18:49:40 UTC

The latest news looks like Russia may have pulled out after all. It looking like that mainly Cyprus was being used for hot money, now that has been drawn to the worlds attention, it's all been shifted elsewhere. The amount and worth of offshore gas is being variously reported ass well.

Looks like my initial summing up was wrong ....

Supposedly they say Russia is trying to play smart for it's hopes to pick up
the assets at a cheaper rate if Cyprus does go belly-up.
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Message 1349545 - Posted: 22 Mar 2013, 18:49:14 UTC - in response to Message 1349543.  
Last modified: 22 Mar 2013, 18:51:21 UTC

[quote][quote]The latest news looks like Russia may have pulled out after all. It looking like that mainly Cyprus was being used for hot money, now that has been drawn to the worlds attention, it's all been shifted elsewhere. The amount and worth of offshore gas is being variously reported ass well.

There is a possibility that the American oil & gas industries may fancy knocking
up a deal with Cyprus.
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Message 1350315 - Posted: 24 Mar 2013, 23:32:36 UTC

Some reports suggest that as part of the deal the Cyprus authorities will authorise a 20% haircut on savings over €100,000 in bank accounts. Also, ATM withdrawls are restricted to €100 per day to stop a run on the banks ...
It's good to be back amongst friends and colleagues



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Message 1350496 - Posted: 25 Mar 2013, 13:46:03 UTC

I feel that Russia will be forced to respond retrospectively. President Vladimir
Putin is most probably relishing a face to face battle with the ECM over this
confiscation of Russian money. He's got his buddies to look after, he's got
the pride of the Russian people to protect. Is this the day that history will
mark as the start of another world depression??

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Message 1350498 - Posted: 25 Mar 2013, 13:56:42 UTC - in response to Message 1350497.  
Last modified: 25 Mar 2013, 13:57:23 UTC

I honestly have no idea how the Government in Russia views laundered money, although we do know that the Italian Government are dictated to by the Mafia.


That's not the question here.
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Message 1350509 - Posted: 25 Mar 2013, 15:04:30 UTC - in response to Message 1350500.  
Last modified: 25 Mar 2013, 15:15:48 UTC

Putin is most probably relishing a face to face battle with the ECM over this confiscation of Russian money. He's got his buddies to look after,


A large proportion of funds in Cyprus are Russian hot money
.

As viewed now by Russia, all money in Cyprus is classed as Russian foreign
investments. What has angst Russia is, "That if it has been stolen from our
country we do not see that the ECM has a right to steal from it for their own
benefits". If the ECB think that some of this cash in the Cyprus banking system
is laundered from Russia then the offending bank accounts should have been closed
down and the money returned to Russia.

It's now becoming evidently clear that if the ECB gets it's hands on controlling
a major part of the worlds banking system double standards will be the theme of
the day.
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Message 1350517 - Posted: 25 Mar 2013, 15:26:09 UTC

In Cyprus any funds over €100,000, as Chris posted, will be confiscated to 40% of the value in those accounts (according to today's BBC News). This policy is fatal for the weak Southern members of the Euro Zone - Italy, Spain, Portugal, Greece, Cyprus and, possibly, Ireland. When banks are running normally, with the Cyprus savings configuration as an example, then savings money (laundered or not) will be withdrawn quickly and no new deposits made. This in turn will put pressure on that country's Euro Zone finances.

More trouble for the Euro ...
It's good to be back amongst friends and colleagues



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Message 1350526 - Posted: 25 Mar 2013, 15:54:44 UTC

Would You guys say that going to the Euro was a bigassed mistake? Every once in a while we here in the States get wind of a Candadian, US , Mexico currency. That would be a huge misatke in my opinion. Let each countries currency stand on its own leggs.
[/quote]

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Message 1350528 - Posted: 25 Mar 2013, 15:58:36 UTC - in response to Message 1350509.  
Last modified: 25 Mar 2013, 15:59:05 UTC

Putin is most probably relishing a face to face battle with the ECM over this confiscation of Russian money. He's got his buddies to look after,


A large proportion of funds in Cyprus are Russian hot money
.

As viewed now by Russia, all money in Cyprus is classed as Russian foreign
investments. What has angst Russia is, "That if it has been stolen from our
country we do not see that the ECM has a right to steal from it for their own
benefits". If the ECB think that some of this cash in the Cyprus banking system
is laundered from Russia then the offending bank accounts should have been closed
down and the money returned to Russia.

It's now becoming evidently clear that if the ECB gets it's hands on controlling
a major part of the worlds banking system double standards will be the theme of
the day.


Nick you're hitting your head on a brick wall. This was highlighted on the EU thread to which he has not responded. what more can you expect from a politico of his age. Grabbed his dosh & now wants more. Should have gone into politics when he could've made a difference. Anything stated contrary to this is pure bulshyte!

edited for spelling :)
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Message 1350529 - Posted: 25 Mar 2013, 16:11:46 UTC - in response to Message 1350526.  

Would You guys say that going to the Euro was a bigassed mistake? Every once in a while we here in the States get wind of a Candadian, US , Mexico currency. That would be a huge misatke in my opinion. Let each countries currency stand on its own leggs.

A fundamental error in political thinking bought about by ideologist who
somehow manage to get their hands on the reins of power. An act which resulted
in events going far beyond that comprehensible by those who wished to and
then did implement it.

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Message 1350530 - Posted: 25 Mar 2013, 16:15:52 UTC

A real redistribution of wealth ...

Does it matter that it is Russian Wealth going to Cypriot bureaucrats? Or, is the important fact that wealth is being redistributed?

Haircut

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Message 1350535 - Posted: 25 Mar 2013, 16:39:43 UTC - in response to Message 1350530.  
Last modified: 25 Mar 2013, 16:41:24 UTC

A real redistribution of wealth ...

Does it matter that it is Russian Wealth going to Cypriot bureaucrats? Or, is the important fact that wealth is being redistributed?

Haircut

You can only redistribute wealth via the application of confiscation.
This is not true capitalism but disguised Communism. True capitalism involves,
in part, raising the wealth of the ordinary worker through opportunities that
enable him to improve his standards of living proportional to his abilities to
achieve the said. Capitalism fails when you take from the productive and give
to the non-productive because the end result is that all involve become non-productive.
A slow process and in the west bought about by socialist governments
exercising social policies at a cost in excess of what that country can afford.
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Message 1350582 - Posted: 25 Mar 2013, 17:50:43 UTC - in response to Message 1350535.  

Nick, there is clearly a need to balance between 'confiscation' or 'expropriation' by governments to redress an ongoing concentration of wealth and power to the very wealthy and large corporations (with the concomitant of power and influence) and the 'confiscation' or 'expropriation' by those same very wealthy and large corporations from the general population.

The ongoing concentration of wealth and power to the very top end presents its own risks, not only in terms of the general welfare of populations and nations, but also in creating the potential for severe social and political unrest.

It is in fact a balancing act. Some countries have been quite successful in managing this and sustaining economic dynamism while mitigating the core capitalist tendency to concentration of wealth and power (I'm thinking countries like Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Germany, etc.). In the US, notwithstanding the noise from the reactionary right, capitalism has and continues to provide economic dynamism but also has (particularly since the Reagan revolution of the 1980's) resulted in intense concentration of wealth which has also undermined the well being of not only the poor (the lowest 20%), but also the marginal middle class (that portion representing the next 20%), and for that matter has not been all that good for the true middle class (the next 20%).

Then again, one of the 'successes' of capitalism in the US is convincing the broad swath of middle class (from 20% to 80%) that they are not only better off under the increased concentration of wealth, but that to the extent they are not, it is attributed to the 'socialists' of the Democratic Party.

So when folks present the horrors of 'redistribution of wealth' -- it would be rather useful to look at the effects of the actual concentration of wealth as at least equally 'horrible'.
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Message 1350585 - Posted: 25 Mar 2013, 17:55:15 UTC

Ah, Cyprus just took 40% of the bank accounts and took all the dirty money to pay off its debt. Unique way around. Wonder who will do the same thing when their turn comes to balance the books. LOL!
Must not conflict resolve by suggesting that someone should go sit on an ice pick...
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Message 1350620 - Posted: 25 Mar 2013, 18:34:08 UTC

It is in fact a balancing act. Some countries have been quite successful in managing this and sustaining economic dynamism while mitigating the core capitalist tendency to concentration of wealth and power (I'm thinking countries like Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Germany, etc.).

But Baz, I don't suspect that the five counties sited above have achieved this via
confiscation but may be through legislation.

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Message 1350631 - Posted: 25 Mar 2013, 18:45:52 UTC - in response to Message 1350620.  

Nick, quite possibly -- then again, since capitalism has its own components of confiscation (the concentration of wealth that you encounter in other 'more capitalist' countries, it is, as I noted in my post a balancing act. The concentration of wealth presents its own problems -- many (most??) people seem to realize that. Whether one chooses to call one confiscation and the other 'progress' probably is more a matter of political orientation than anything else.



It is in fact a balancing act. Some countries have been quite successful in managing this and sustaining economic dynamism while mitigating the core capitalist tendency to concentration of wealth and power (I'm thinking countries like Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Germany, etc.).

But Baz, I don't suspect that the five counties sited above have achieved this via
confiscation but may be through legislation.

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Message 1350633 - Posted: 25 Mar 2013, 18:47:04 UTC - in response to Message 1350620.  

It is in fact a balancing act. Some countries have been quite successful in managing this and sustaining economic dynamism while mitigating the core capitalist tendency to concentration of wealth and power (I'm thinking countries like Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Germany, etc.).

But Baz, I don't suspect that the five counties sited above have achieved this via
confiscation but may be through legislation.

Legislation is confiscation.

I think you are trying to say that it isn't being done as naked as the haircut in Cyprus. Tax policy is still confiscation, try not paying and see if they show up at your door with guns and handcuffs.

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Message 1350650 - Posted: 25 Mar 2013, 19:16:14 UTC

I think you are trying to say that it isn't being done as naked as the haircut in Cyprus. Tax policy is still confiscation, try not paying and see if they show up at your door with guns and handcuffs.

In the UK then just with handcuffs.....Yup, taxation is confiscation via the
back door.

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