6: Setting Europe Ablaze.....

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Message 1454781 - Posted: 17 Dec 2013, 11:04:09 UTC

You have to take note that the UK not only gets immigrants from EU countries, but also from many of the Commonwealth countries. There are about 200k per annum from the Indian sub-continent alone.
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Message 1454794 - Posted: 17 Dec 2013, 11:51:17 UTC

That is as WK notes, yet another factor in the equation. But it has to be said that while India remains part of the Commonwealth of Nations, they do have rather more rights to be in the UK than others that are not part of the Commonwealth. But we need to look at all the facts before deciding.

But the problem for ministers is that they can't control all forms of immigration and emigration - and fewer British and EU citizens are leaving. If fewer people leave, then the net migration balance can rise, even if the number of immigrants declines. So if the government is going to hit its target, it may need to find more tools to increase departures while maintaining pressure on arrivals.

It depends upon which set of figures you want to use, to press your point.

"Immigration needs to be controlled, but we must recognise there is immigration that works for Britain and immigration that doesn't."

That is a good point, also raised here before.

The ONS said the number of people coming to the UK from the EU had gone up by 25,000, mainly for work reasons. Immigration from outside the EU saw a "statistically significant" drop to 242,000 in the year to June, from 282,000 the previous year, it said. China now tops the table for the number of new immigrants to the UK, followed by India, Poland, the US and Australia. The figures come amid growing concern that Britain will face a new wave of eastern European immigration when access restrictions to the UK labour market for Romanians and Bulgarians are lifted on 1 January 2014.

It may be just scaremongering by some corners, but it needs to be kept an eye on. Now, playing Devils advocate, have a look at these figures.

UK arrivals and departures

The top five destinations for people leaving the UK:

Australia
US
India
China
France

The top five countries from which people are arriving:

China
India
Poland
US
Australia

Source: ONS

If these are correct, anyone else as bemused as me?

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Message 1454935 - Posted: 17 Dec 2013, 21:58:29 UTC

CU 1 EU 0

How long before these two eventually clash?

It has been stated that the Iskander systems are being placed as a response to the NATO increase in the European Missile Shield. However, it's pretty obvious it's not to retaliate against the Yanks but Brussels.

Just like Obama and Syria, a line is being drawn in the sand.

Is Brussels that dumb that they dare to cross it?
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Message 1455070 - Posted: 18 Dec 2013, 10:26:00 UTC

Another interesting fact. The Greater London population is less than 45% White British. And note I said British not English.
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Message 1455075 - Posted: 18 Dec 2013, 11:15:49 UTC

I wouldn't doubt that figure WK, based on simple observations walking around the streets of London. England is England, Britain is Wales & England, Great Britain is Britain & Scotland. But you basically mean those in the Mainland British Isles. But to be fair, London, then Greater London, has always been the UK's most multi cultural city. This contrasts with Brixton which is mainly black African and West Indian, Southall is known as "Litte Asia" and has a majority Indian and Pakstani population. Birmingham has the United Kingdom's largest Muslim, Sikh and Buddhist communities outside London, and the second largest Hindu community. Peterborough is home to one of the largest concentrations of Italian immigrants in the UK.

What is worrying is that these ex-pat communities are very inward looking, and show little inclination to integrate into the community of their chosen host country. It's almost getting back to Biblical times when cities had their clearly defined Quarters e.g. Jerusalem with the Muslim Quarter, the Christian Quarter, the Jewish Quarter and the Armenian Quarter. It is true to say that if the British went out to any Asian Country and wanted to build C of E Churches we would likely be told to politely go away, yet in 2007 there were approximately 1,500 mosques in Britain alone. And that is not a racist comment, just the simple truth.

And you wonder why I think that Europe and the world are taking the piss out of Britain, and getting away with it.

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Message 1455081 - Posted: 18 Dec 2013, 11:38:17 UTC

You also have to wonder how many of the White British population actually is. I know several families of our generation who have foreign fathers, and you wouldn't know it from a casual meeting. Germans and Italians who were ex-POW's, there was a POW camp in Oswaldtwistle., Norwegians in Shetland.
And also a few Poles and Latvians, who fled over here and helped fight in WW2.
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Message 1455084 - Posted: 18 Dec 2013, 11:56:06 UTC - in response to Message 1455075.  
Last modified: 18 Dec 2013, 11:56:56 UTC

And you wonder why I think that Europe and the world are taking the piss out of Britain, and getting away with it.

What, you mean that other European countries don't have immigrant communities? I'm pretty sure Germans beg to differ, given that they got one of the largest Turkish communities in Europe. Or France, which is choke full of people from the former colonies. Or Belgium. Or Spain. Or Italy. Or Greece. Seriously, stop whining that the UK gets all the immigrants, the rest of Europe gets them as well.

Besides, again, European regulations are pretty strict when it comes to asylum seekers and illegal immigrants. Illegal immigrants and asylum seekers must apply for visas and what not in the country in which they enter the EU. Given Britain's geographical position, its fair to say that only the ones that can afford a plane can do that, the vast majority enters through Greece, Italy or Spain. Though it might be different for the UK, it might be that you guys opted out on that.
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Message 1455085 - Posted: 18 Dec 2013, 12:10:33 UTC - in response to Message 1455084.  

Then how come a large number don't claim for asylum until they get to the Channel tunnel, having in some cases traveled through several EU countries.

Yes we know that most EU countries have immigrants from other countries, like the Turks in Germany, but the average ethnicity for most EU countries is bout 90%, for England it is below 85%.
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Message 1455124 - Posted: 18 Dec 2013, 15:06:58 UTC - in response to Message 1455085.  

Then how come a large number don't claim for asylum until they get to the Channel tunnel, having in some cases traveled through several EU countries.

Yes we know that most EU countries have immigrants from other countries, like the Turks in Germany, but the average ethnicity for most EU countries is bout 90%, for England it is below 85%.

Why? Because Spain, Italy and Greece can't handle the number of applicants. However, legally the UK can basically send them back. If they can make a reasonable case that the person did not enter the EU through the UK, then the UK does not have to handle them. The only problem is that sometimes its hard to know where they did come from.
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Message 1455131 - Posted: 18 Dec 2013, 15:29:04 UTC
Last modified: 18 Dec 2013, 15:30:31 UTC

Another danger to an enlarged EU is the Roman Catholic Church, yet no one has picked up on this. Just how many of the current member states are Catholic?

Just what nations to be added to it enlarging it?

Member Nations of the EU

The European Dream - We must go deeper

Really? Just how deep? Will you force the Catholic Superstate on those nations that are not Catholic?

"A few years earlier, in 1979 while visiting the country of his birth, the Polish pope declared, “Europe, despite its … regimes, ideologies and economic systems cannot cease to seek its fundamental unity and must return to [Roman Catholic] Christianity. … Economic and political reasons alone cannot do it. We must go deeper

And even back in 1975 Pope Paul VI, addressing the bishops of Europe, said: “Can it not be said that it is faith, the Christian faith, the Catholic faith, that made Europe? … And it is there that our mission as bishops in Europe takes on a gripping perspective. No other human force in Europe can render the service that is confided to us, promoters of the faith, to reawaken Europe’s Christian soul where its unity is rooted.”

He went on to say that the Catholic faith was “the secret of Europe’s identity,” and when the secret was discovered, Europe could carry out “the providential service to which God is still calling it.

You think the non-catholic nations within the EU will acquiesce to this?

"UKIP’s views are not new, nor are they unique. Former British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, in a 1988 speech to the College of Europe, said: “We have not successfully rolled back the frontiers of the state in Britain, only to see them re-imposed at a European level with a European super-state.”"

Good on yer Maggie!

We dearly need another like her now!
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Message 1455136 - Posted: 18 Dec 2013, 15:49:25 UTC

Just because a pope says something about Europe doesn't mean thats what actually happening in Europe. The idea that the EU has an official faith or is pushing said faith on to the rest of Europe is just down right ridiculous. First of all, about half of Europe isn't even Catholic. On top of that, the EU has absolutely zero power when it comes to 'regulating faith' other than saying that freedom of religion is a value that should be respected in all its member states.

And fight Europe all you want. You can only block so much. Not even that much, given that you guys tend to opt out of everything. You guys are like a little child, sitting in his room, and when the other kids on the block ask him to come out and play, he says no and stays in his room. And then gets angry when the other kids didn't consult him when they picked the game they wanted to play.

Actually leaving the EU will only make it worse. Since you guys do want to be part of the whole free trade bit, you guys can be like Norway and Switzerland. You get your free trade. But guess what, Europe still sets the rules on what you can and can't do, and Norway and Switzerland are bound to those rules. Only they don't have any say at all on them. But hey, if you guys wanna follow our rules without the constant whining and acting like a block of concrete, thats fine by me :)
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Message 1455138 - Posted: 18 Dec 2013, 15:53:49 UTC - in response to Message 1455136.  

Current Norwegian Economy

Current Swiss Economy

Ooooh, yes please, we'll take the Norwegian and Swiss concrete. Can you arrange delivery please?
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Message 1455141 - Posted: 18 Dec 2013, 15:59:05 UTC

However, legally the UK can basically send them back. If they can make a reasonable case that the person did not enter the EU through the UK, then the UK does not have to handle them.

Sorry, that is simply not true. People turn up on our doorstep via air, sea, and land wanting to come in. We cannot send them back to their last destination because they will say "not one of ours we don't want them either". So in effect you have stateless people, but Britain being the soft touch that it is lets them in. Why do you think they all do it???.

The only problem is that sometimes its hard to know where they did come from.

Of course it is, and deliberately so. The Sangatte camp had people from all over.

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Message 1455143 - Posted: 18 Dec 2013, 16:00:38 UTC - in response to Message 1455141.  

+1

So what price EU rules now?
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Message 1455144 - Posted: 18 Dec 2013, 16:01:43 UTC

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Message 1455145 - Posted: 18 Dec 2013, 16:06:28 UTC - in response to Message 1455144.  

No one really wants to be Belgian: Country doesn’t grant a single citizenship under new laws for 2013


Nice. Makes one wonder what Brussels and the European Commission have said to that?

Again, what price EU rules?

Methinks they're only there for Del-boy - Only Fools and Horses!
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Message 1455148 - Posted: 18 Dec 2013, 16:20:41 UTC

No one really wants to be Belgian: Country doesn’t grant a single citizenship under new laws for 2013

Perhaps Belgium has more taste than the UK has by not letting in the riff raff?

given that you guys tend to opt out of everything. You guys are like a little child, sitting in his room, and when the other kids on the block ask him to come out and play, he says no and stays in his room. And then gets angry when the other kids didn't consult him when they picked the game they wanted to play.

Up until now I was quite impressed with your posts, which seemed to have a depth of understanding and a breadth of appreciation across the whole spectrum of European politics. I see now that I was sadly mistaken.

But hey, if you guys wanna follow our rules without the constant whining and acting like a block of concrete, thats fine by me :)

Yep I was sadly right.

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Message 1455597 - Posted: 19 Dec 2013, 21:22:16 UTC

CU 2 EU 0

Gotta love this statement. Wonder how Brussels feels about being given "The Bird"?

"I am categorically against anybody coming and teaching us how to live," he said."
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Message 1455715 - Posted: 20 Dec 2013, 12:38:02 UTC

Ukraine's Russian-backed President, Viktor Yanukovych, has said he strongly opposes Western politicians intervening in the crisis in Ukraine. The opposition is furious after he accepted a Russian bailout, seen as a reward for rejecting EU integration. Ukraine, Putin said, was a fraternal state with close industrial ties to Russia. We should support our sister nation in dire straits"

Quite obviously a bribe from Russia to ditch further EU integration, and bring Ukraine under further direct control of Russia.

Before news of Russia's offer to buy $15bn worth of bonds, Ukraine faced an external funding gap of $15bn-17bn in 2014
Negotiations for an IMF loan have long been stalled
Ukraine's foreign exchange reserves dipped to less than $19bn in November
Trade volumes in goods with the EU and Russia are similar

Russia made an offer they knew Ukraine couldn't refuse.

"I am categorically against anybody coming and teaching us how to live," he said. "What is very important is that this is our internal matter, and that other countries do not intervene in our internal affairs."

OK, you want to be a Russian satellite state, you go ahead. Judging by this you won't be around in a few years for us to worry about anyway.

Ukraine has been in a demographic crisis since the 1990s because of its high death rate and a low birth rate. The population is shrinking by over 150,000 a year. The birth rate has recovered in recent years from a catastrophically low level around 2000, and is now comparable to the European average, but would need to increase by another 50% or so to stabilize the population and offset the high mortality rate. Life expectancy is falling. The nation suffers a high mortality rate from environmental pollution, poor diets, widespread smoking, extensive alcoholism, and deteriorating medical care.


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Message 1455733 - Posted: 20 Dec 2013, 14:16:08 UTC - in response to Message 1455715.  

Ukraine's Russian-backed President, Viktor Yanukovych, has said he strongly opposes Western politicians intervening in the crisis in Ukraine. The opposition is furious after he accepted a Russian bailout, seen as a reward for rejecting EU integration. Ukraine, Putin said, was a fraternal state with close industrial ties to Russia. We should support our sister nation in dire straits"

Quite obviously a bribe from Russia to ditch further EU integration, and bring Ukraine under further direct control of Russia. & the difference between them and Brussels is?

Before news of Russia's offer to buy $15bn worth of bonds, Ukraine faced an external funding gap of $15bn-17bn in 2014
Negotiations for an IMF loan have long been stalled
Ukraine's foreign exchange reserves dipped to less than $19bn in November
Trade volumes in goods with the EU and Russia are similar

Russia made an offer they knew Ukraine couldn't refuse. So no bribery within the EU then?

"I am categorically against anybody coming and teaching us how to live," he said. "What is very important is that this is our internal matter, and that other countries do not intervene in our internal affairs."

OK, you want to be a Russian satellite state, you go ahead. Judging by this you won't be around in a few years for us to worry about anyway. With the Lib-Dems in power, the same can be said for Britain

Ukraine has been in a demographic crisis since the 1990s because of its high death rate and a low birth rate. The population is shrinking by over 150,000 a year. The birth rate has recovered in recent years from a catastrophically low level around 2000, and is now comparable to the European average, but would need to increase by another 50% or so to stabilize the population and offset the high mortality rate. Life expectancy is falling. The nation suffers a high mortality rate from environmental pollution, poor diets, widespread smoking, extensive alcoholism, and deteriorating medical care. No different than the UK then!




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Message boards : Politics : 6: Setting Europe Ablaze.....


 
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