6: Setting Europe Ablaze.....

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Message 1454488 - Posted: 16 Dec 2013, 14:46:35 UTC - in response to Message 1454484.  

"The City of London would grind to a halt overnight."

What a load of cobblers

Oh, you think that the European capital of global financial institutions would last very long if they could only work with British people?


Research the city of London then re-ask that question.......

.....your starter for 10........

Where was Brussels when the City of London built up its reputation?

hmm, let's see, recovering from WWII perhaps?
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Message 1454500 - Posted: 16 Dec 2013, 15:40:48 UTC - in response to Message 1454488.  

Where was Brussels when the City of London built up its reputation?

hmm, let's see, recovering from WWII perhaps?

What, in the 80's? The Belgians might have some trouble getting their government to do stuff, but I'm quite sure that by the time Thatcher came into power Brussels was fully recovered from the war.
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Message 1454503 - Posted: 16 Dec 2013, 16:01:24 UTC - in response to Message 1454500.  

Where was Brussels when the City of London built up its reputation?

hmm, let's see, recovering from WWII perhaps?

What, in the 80's? The Belgians might have some trouble getting their government to do stuff, but I'm quite sure that by the time Thatcher came into power Brussels was fully recovered from the war.


Which 80's?

Who needs Brussels?
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Message 1454512 - Posted: 16 Dec 2013, 16:33:35 UTC - in response to Message 1454503.  


Which 80's?

Who needs Brussels?

Read your own link, 1986, that's when London started to become the financial capital of Europe.
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Message 1454517 - Posted: 16 Dec 2013, 16:46:29 UTC - in response to Message 1454512.  


Which 80's?

Who needs Brussels?

Read your own link, 1986, that's when London started to become the financial capital of Europe.


The question was....

"Where was Brussels while the city of London built up its reputation?"

I did not state Europe, I referred to the City of London. As its history shows, it did not need Brussels. The EU only enriched it, so why does it need Brussels?
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Message 1454547 - Posted: 16 Dec 2013, 17:37:15 UTC

The City of London began it's reputation as a world financial centre with the Lloyds Coffee House, opened by Edward Lloyd in 1688 in Tower Street, London, and the Bank of England in 1694 at Walbrook, and later Threadneedle Street. Over more than 300 years during the 17th to the 21st centuries the City of London has maintained itself as the top world financial centre. Financial index

Belgium was occupied by the Germany during WWII, and joined the Benelux Economic Union in 1948 and Nato in 1949. Brussels has never been a financial centre but
since the end of the Second World War, has been a principal centre for international politics. Hosting principal EU institutions with Strasburg, and the headquarters of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), the city has become the home of numerous international organisations, politicians, diplomats and civil servants.

The UK knows full well that Eastern Europeans take up service sector jobs that British people see as beneath them, but the tide of immigration has risen too high to be sustainable in it's present and expected form by next January. Britain is not a European refugee camp, and the Lib Dems are not being helpful in that respect.

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Message 1454563 - Posted: 16 Dec 2013, 18:58:59 UTC

Britain is not a European refugee camp,

ROFLSO!!!! Brilliant quote Chris...

The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.
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Message 1454593 - Posted: 16 Dec 2013, 20:13:13 UTC - in response to Message 1454563.  

Britain is not a European refugee camp,

ROFLSO!!!! Brilliant quote Chris...


ROLMFAO

Damn where the hell are me damned pills?

An excellent +2.
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Message 1454616 - Posted: 16 Dec 2013, 21:38:34 UTC - in response to Message 1454547.  

The UK knows full well that Eastern Europeans take up service sector jobs that British people see as beneath them, but the tide of immigration has risen too high to be sustainable in it's present and expected form by next January. Britain is not a European refugee camp, and the Lib Dems are not being helpful in that respect.

For someone who is constantly ripping on the Daily Mail, you are certainly buying the nonsense they and their cohorts write about immigration.

Britain is not an European refugee camp and it will never be. The amount of immigrants that are coming in are not nearly enough to make it so. Seriously, don't overstate the problem, stop pretending that there is going to be some tidal wave of immigrants because that is just nonsense.
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Message 1454632 - Posted: 16 Dec 2013, 22:53:50 UTC - in response to Message 1454616.  

So why is Germany moaning about that then? Some of their towns and cities look like land tips!
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Message 1454635 - Posted: 16 Dec 2013, 23:03:33 UTC - in response to Message 1454632.  

So why is Germany moaning about that then? Some of their towns and cities look like land tips!

They are moaning over nothing as well. They shouldn't be complaining either.
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Message 1454637 - Posted: 16 Dec 2013, 23:08:02 UTC - in response to Message 1454635.  
Last modified: 16 Dec 2013, 23:08:18 UTC

So why is Germany moaning about that then? Some of their towns and cities look like land tips!

They are moaning over nothing as well. They shouldn't be complaining either.


Care to explain your reasoning for those statements?
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Message 1454639 - Posted: 16 Dec 2013, 23:27:45 UTC - in response to Message 1454637.  

Care to explain your reasoning for those statements?

First, from an economic point of view, your economy only gets better once you allow free movement of labor. Second, by not allowing Eastern Europeans to work for like 7 years last time, Germany not only did not benefit as much from a larger EU, it also caused problems, because people will find a way, legal or otherwise, to get into the country they want to work. In the case of Germany, a lot of Polish people just started up small businesses and used that rule to get around the rule that they were not allowed to work in Germany, as that rule did not apply to Polish businesses. What happened was that Polish workers started to compete in economic areas where there was no real need for Polish labor, while where there was an use for them, they weren't allowed to work. So it actually hurt the German economy a little bit (not by much). Third, there is always this talk like all of Eastern Europe is going to move West. This is a blatant lie. Yes, some Eastern Europeans move towards countries like Germany or the UK. A few thousand each year. A fair number of those also move back after a few years. But the whole idea that Western Europe is getting flooded by migrants from the East is just nonsense. And while they are here, most find jobs and pay taxes. European rules pretty clearly state that migrants are not allowed to be a burden on the social security system for the first five years that they are in their host country. If they are shorter than a few years in the host country, they are not entitled to any kind of welfare. So, you can keep out the 'moochers' (and their numbers are even more exaggerated) while you keep the people that contribute in a positive way to your economy.

Finally, its just ridiculous to think that in today's world, which is ever globalizing, its possible let alone desirable to keep people from other countries out. Its not a realistic thing to promise, even if we were to completely stop with the whole EU tomorrow. Inter European immigration is going to happen, so better deal with it and make the most out of it, which really isn't that hard, than lie to the voters that you can keep them out of the country.
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Message 1454640 - Posted: 16 Dec 2013, 23:40:29 UTC - in response to Message 1454639.  

European rules pretty clearly state that migrants are not allowed to be a burden on the social security system for the first five years that they are in their host country. If they are shorter than a few years in the host country, they are not entitled to any kind of welfare. So, you can keep out the 'moochers' (and their numbers are even more exaggerated) while you keep the people that contribute in a positive way to your economy.


Are you sure of your facts here?

This says otherwise

"Since the three years to 2011, the number of EU migrants coming to Britain without a job increased by 73 per cent." free movement? Even without a job?

"It comes after a new EU study found more than 600,000 unemployed European Union migrants are living in the UK at a cost of £1.5 billion to the NHS." Note that it is not a British survey but an EU one, so we can't be accused of any bias
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Message 1454642 - Posted: 17 Dec 2013, 0:18:59 UTC

Interesting developments.......

European fears over Russian missiles

...naw, nothing to worry about, the Mekon's economical and political union will prevent those!
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Message 1454768 - Posted: 17 Dec 2013, 10:08:08 UTC - in response to Message 1454640.  
Last modified: 17 Dec 2013, 10:09:44 UTC

Are you sure of your facts here?

This says otherwise

"Since the three years to 2011, the number of EU migrants coming to Britain without a job increased by 73 per cent." free movement? Even without a job?

"It comes after a new EU study found more than 600,000 unemployed European Union migrants are living in the UK at a cost of £1.5 billion to the NHS." Note that it is not a British survey but an EU one, so we can't be accused of any bias

EU directive 2004/58/EC Article 7
Right of residence for more than 3 months

1. All Union citizens shall have the right of residence on the
territory of another Member State for a period of longer than
three months if they:

(a) are workers or self-employed persons in the host Member
State; or

(b) have sufficient resources for themselves and their family
members not to become a burden on the social assistance
system of the host Member State during their period of
residence and have comprehensive sickness insurance cover
in the host Member State; or

(c) are enrolled at a private or public establishment, accredited or financed by the host Member State on the basis of its legislation or administrative practice, for the principal purpose of following a course of study, including vocational training; and

have comprehensive sickness insurance cover in the host Member State and assure the relevant national authority, by means of a declaration or by such equivalent means as they may choose, that they have sufficient resources for themselves and their family members not to become a burden on the social assistance system of
the host Member State during their period of residence; or

(d) are family members accompanying or joining a Union
citizen who satisfies the conditions referred to in points (a),
(b) or (c).

2. The right of residence provided for in paragraph 1 shall
extend to family members who are not nationals of a Member
State, accompanying or joining the Union citizen in the host
Member State, provided that such Union citizen satisfies the
conditions referred to in paragraph 1(a), (b) or (c).

3. For the purposes of paragraph 1(a), a Union citizen who
is no longer a worker or self-employed person shall retain the
status of worker or self-employed person in the following
circumstances:

a) he/she is temporarily unable to work as the result of an
illness or accident;

(b) he/she is in duly recorded involuntary unemployment after
having been employed for more than one year and has
registered as a job-seeker with the relevant employment
office;

c) he/she is in duly recorded involuntary unemployment after
completing a fixed-term employment contract of less than
a year or after having become involuntarily unemployed
during the first twelve months and has registered as a job-
seeker with the relevant employment office. In this case,
the status of worker shall be retained for no less than six
months;

(d) he/she embarks on vocational training. Unless he/she is
involuntarily unemployed, the retention of the status of
worker shall require the training to be related to the
previous employment

4. By way of derogation from paragraphs 1(d) and 2 above,
only the spouse, the registered partner provided for in Article
2(2)(b) and dependent children shall have the right of residence
as family members of a Union citizen meeting the conditions
under 1(c) above. Article 3(2) shall apply to his/her dependent
direct relatives in the ascending lines and those of his/her
spouse or registered partner.


European law is pretty clear on this. Unless they worked in the UK for a certain amount of time, they have no right to any welfare entitlements. If they are all unemployed and require British social security, then its the British problem that they can't distinguish between people who are entitled to access to healthcare and those that don't. The problem is not that you should keep more of them out, the problem is that you are paying for the people who are not allowed to make use of the benefits in the first place.
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Message 1454769 - Posted: 17 Dec 2013, 10:11:56 UTC

For someone who is constantly ripping on the Daily Mail, you are certainly buying the nonsense they and their cohorts write about immigration.

Everyone knows that the Mail survives on shock horror tabloid headlines, but I can assure you that I am most certainly not listening to their particular brand of political rhetoric, although I will accept that my comment maybe sounded like that. And yes we all know about Romanian Gypsy women begging in Oxford Street, we are talking dozens, not thousands!

Britain is not an European refugee camp and it will never be. The amount of immigrants that are coming in are not nearly enough to make it so. Seriously, don't overstate the problem, stop pretending that there is going to be some tidal wave of immigrants because that is just nonsense.

In my opinion that is how Britain is seen by Europe and particularly the Eastern European countries. We are a soft touch when compared to other places, set foot on our soil and its unlikely you will be sent home once here. If you lived in an Eastern European country would you want to stay there, compared with the benefits of living in the UK? Over time we will end up with more claiming benefits than our society really wants or can pay for. The official figures of NEW entries do not cover the illegals already here, or those here on visas that will expire, and will just stay on. It is becoming a problem now and will become a greater one in the future.

Third, there is always this talk like all of Eastern Europe is going to move West. This is a blatant lie. Yes, some Eastern Europeans move towards countries like Germany or the UK. A few thousand each year. A fair number of those also move back after a few years. But the whole idea that Western Europe is getting flooded by migrants from the East is just nonsense. And while they are here, most find jobs and pay taxes. European rules pretty clearly state that migrants are not allowed to be a burden on the social security system for the first five years that they are in their host country. If they are shorter than a few years in the host country, they are not entitled to any kind of welfare

That might be true in Germany or France, or even your country, not in the UK. If you have a heart attack on the streets of Britain, you will get the best treatment in an NHS hospital regardless of who you are, and you won't pay a penny for it, neither will your embassy. Have a couple of kids super quick and you'll get housed. The problem is not as great as the press would have it, but I think it is a bigger problem than you are believing it to be. I am glad the Home Secretary has a handle on it.

Мишель I'm involved in local politics, drop me a line by pm.

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Message 1454772 - Posted: 17 Dec 2013, 10:13:38 UTC - in response to Message 1454768.  



European law is pretty clear on this. Unless they worked in the UK for a certain amount of time, they have no right to any welfare entitlements. If they are all unemployed and require British social security, then its the British problem that they can't distinguish between people who are entitled to access to healthcare and those that don't. The problem is not that you should keep more of them out, the problem is that you are paying for the people who are not allowed to make use of the benefits in the first place.



....but, but, aren't they immigrants?

Look, if the UK doesn't want the internal market, thats fine, then leave. But you should not start cherry picking what elements of an internal market you want and what parts you don't want. Besides, why are you so afraid of immigrants?


Don't forget the ECHR!

That's the problem with a big unwieldy system, there are too many regulations where if one is applied then another will contradict it.....

...and you want it to enlarge?
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Message 1454774 - Posted: 17 Dec 2013, 10:20:47 UTC

European law is pretty clear on this. Unless they worked in the UK for a certain amount of time, they have no right to any welfare entitlements. If they are all unemployed and require British social security, then its the British problem that they can't distinguish between people who are entitled to access to healthcare and those that don't. The problem is not that you should keep more of them out, the problem is that you are paying for the people who are not allowed to make use of the benefits in the first place.

I will agree with that view. That is why we are seen as a soft touch! It's the price we are paying for being a free Western democracy, where we don't arm our policemen, and have decent living standards for all regardless of background. But too much of Europe is now jumping on board as freeloaders and taking the piss. So it is time we clamped down.

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Message 1454776 - Posted: 17 Dec 2013, 10:24:33 UTC - in response to Message 1454774.  

European law is pretty clear on this. Unless they worked in the UK for a certain amount of time, they have no right to any welfare entitlements. If they are all unemployed and require British social security, then its the British problem that they can't distinguish between people who are entitled to access to healthcare and those that don't. The problem is not that you should keep more of them out, the problem is that you are paying for the people who are not allowed to make use of the benefits in the first place.

I will agree with that view. That is why we are seen as a soft touch! It's the price we are paying for being a free Western democracy, where we don't arm our policemen, and have decent living standards for all regardless of background. But too much of Europe is now jumping on board as freeloaders and taking the piss. So it is time we clamped down.



Oy! Send me some of your pills, I've run out :)

+1
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Message boards : Politics : 6: Setting Europe Ablaze.....


 
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