6: Setting Europe Ablaze.....

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Message 1455762 - Posted: 20 Dec 2013, 16:50:12 UTC

Hmmn, a Russian satellite to scare both Britain and Europe?

How about Ireland leaving the EU and joining the CU? If so, Putin has gone a long way to make that possible........

....Cromwell a nasty dictator as bad as Stalin


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Message 1455783 - Posted: 20 Dec 2013, 17:52:51 UTC

What has really kept Europe stable has been the U.S. presence since WW-II. The EU (and the Euro) are attempts to substitute for that. I wish it would work, but it won't. See you later.
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Message 1455909 - Posted: 21 Dec 2013, 0:21:36 UTC

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Message 1456028 - Posted: 21 Dec 2013, 10:10:33 UTC

It's very tempting to respond hey, it's France, what do you expect? Sensibility? But of course what this is all about is their particular labour laws and some job's worths.

But for social security agency URSAFF, it was also an infringement of labour laws because customers were acting like waiters,

It has been a polite tradition in the UK for customers to return empty glasses and bottles to the bar for over a century, and of course it will continue. But for the publican it may be in theory classed as unearned income, in that they don't have to employ a glass collector, and the perceived monetary benefit should be declared on income tax returns.

It would be interesting to have a tax professional comment upon that. In the meantime we'll just have a laugh at Frances's expense. I bet the Mail is livid, this right up their street and they missed it :-)

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Message 1456041 - Posted: 21 Dec 2013, 10:37:21 UTC - in response to Message 1455783.  
Last modified: 21 Dec 2013, 10:38:11 UTC

What has really kept Europe stable has been the U.S. presence since WW-II. The EU (and the Euro) are attempts to substitute for that. I wish it would work, but it won't. See you later.

Hahahaha, please. The EU and its predecessors were attempts to keep the Yanks out of our internal affairs and prevent Western Europe from turning into the Western equivalent of Eastern Europe. That has been quite successful. In fact, if anything, American interference in post war European politics has only resulted in further instability in certain areas (Greece knows a thing or two about that, given how first American politics and then American business has utterly f'ed them over).


EDIT Seems the bar owner pissed off some bureaucrat.
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Message 1456052 - Posted: 21 Dec 2013, 11:29:06 UTC - in response to Message 1456049.  

The U.S. has dozens of cities and municipalities which are filing for bankruptcy now (and at least one state which is testing the limits of debt and taxes). And the current regime in washington is starting to funnel money to them. Why isn't the EU doing this for Greece?

Well to some extend they do. They have the whole economic fund for countries that have their own debt crisis. But, at the same time the EU is not a federation like the US. And currently the EU is far from popular in a lot of countries, so between the states there is almost no feeling of solidarity. The Dutch and Germans feel no real solidarity with the Greeks, the only reason they are helping out is because they see that the costs of not helping would be bigger than helping out. Still, they have to act towards the citizens of their own countries that they are doing their very hardest not to pay any more to Greece than is absolutely necessary, because else they might lose the next elections at home.
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Message 1456063 - Posted: 21 Dec 2013, 12:35:35 UTC - in response to Message 1456052.  
Last modified: 21 Dec 2013, 13:11:53 UTC

Well to some extend they do. They have the whole economic fund for countries that have their own debt crisis. But, at the same time the EU is not a federation like the US. And currently the EU is far from popular in a lot of countries, so between the states there is almost no feeling of solidarity. The Dutch and Germans feel no real solidarity with the Greeks, the only reason they are helping out is because they see that the costs of not helping would be bigger than helping out. Still, they have to act towards the citizens of their own countries that they are doing their very hardest not to pay any more to Greece than is absolutely necessary, because else they might lose the next elections at home.


Exactly and a perfect example of why all countries within the Eurozone to return to their own laws, rules and regulations along with the return to their own currency.

It's now being bandied about that the financial crisis was more damaging that first thought and that it will be at least 2030 before it returns to pre-2008 levels.

A lot simpler to return to the EEC now, painful yes but the recovery will be quicker that what is ahead for all.

Edit:

Del-boy found balls, but too little too late
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Message 1456170 - Posted: 21 Dec 2013, 18:27:10 UTC

The solution is not and will never be the dissolution of the entire internal market. The economic damage from such a shortsighted policy would ensure we never reach pre-2008 levels ever again.
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Message 1456176 - Posted: 21 Dec 2013, 19:00:32 UTC - in response to Message 1456170.  

The solution is not and will never be the dissolution of the entire internal market. The economic damage from such a shortsighted policy would ensure we never reach pre-2008 levels ever again.

I think you mean Germany wont recover, the other member states would do quite well
though.

The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.
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Message 1456365 - Posted: 22 Dec 2013, 11:30:40 UTC

This current coalition sure likes upsetting their Euro partners....

Bulgaria warns Cameron

"Business Secretary Mr Cable echoed Mr Clegg's comments, adding on BBC One's Andrew Marr show that the Conservatives were "in a bit of a panic because of UKIP"."


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Message 1458209 - Posted: 28 Dec 2013, 15:25:11 UTC

oooh, yes please, make it so.....

"Judge Dean Spielmann said if Britain did not adhere to European human rights laws it could face leaving the EU."

ECHR "A risk to UK Sovereignty
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Message 1458210 - Posted: 28 Dec 2013, 15:44:20 UTC

As a member State of the EU we are duty bound to adhere to EU rules. But when adhering to those rules directly conflicts with UK Laws, legislation, and way of life, then quite rightly we say no. Then of course we get accused of cherry picking what bits of the EU do do choose to adhere to.

The answer is quite simple. The UK comes first, and the EU comes second. And if Brussels doesn't like it then that is just tough. We are a strong enough country to stand up to bureaucratic bullying.
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Message 1458214 - Posted: 28 Dec 2013, 15:57:46 UTC - in response to Message 1458210.  

Nice roundabout way of saying "Pull out".
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Message 1458221 - Posted: 28 Dec 2013, 16:18:16 UTC - in response to Message 1458210.  

As a member State of the EU we are duty bound to adhere to EU rules. But when adhering to those rules directly conflicts with UK Laws, legislation, and way of life, then quite rightly we say no. Then of course we get accused of cherry picking what bits of the EU do do choose to adhere to.

The answer is quite simple. The UK comes first, and the EU comes second. And if Brussels doesn't like it then that is just tough. We are a strong enough country to stand up to bureaucratic bullying.

Do that and then by the laws of the EU the commission can start sending the fines.

EU laws come first, national laws come second, if you willingly break the EU laws you signed off on yourself, you get a fine or something.
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Message 1458224 - Posted: 28 Dec 2013, 16:20:08 UTC
Last modified: 28 Dec 2013, 16:23:57 UTC

EU laws come first, national laws come second,

Sorry old son, this is England, we don't work like that and never ever will do.
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Message 1458225 - Posted: 28 Dec 2013, 16:22:35 UTC

Nice roundabout way of saying "Pull out".


Not at all, my view has always been quite clear. At the present moment it is generally best for the UK to be a part of Europe, to play a part in its proceedings and exercise our veto when necessary. The day that it is not in our best interests to be a Member, then we should withdraw. I see that day getting very close.
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Message 1458226 - Posted: 28 Dec 2013, 16:22:40 UTC - in response to Message 1458224.  

Not at all, my view has always been quite clear. At the present moment it is generally best for the UK to be a part of Europe, to play a part in its proceedings and exercise our veto when necessary. The day that it is not in our best interests to be a Member, then we should withdraw. I see that day getting very close.

Yes, and as long as you are part of the EU, EU laws have primacy over national laws. Therefor, breaking those laws means the Commission can send a fine your way.
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Message 1458233 - Posted: 28 Dec 2013, 17:01:33 UTC

First of all, I would like to say hi, as it is my first post in a SETI thread. You are very much an interesting and intelligent group. I share the same thoughts many of you have espoused here.

The only point I really want to make in this post is that globalism in its current form is probably heading for doom not only from the economic reasons already discussed but from an energy prospective as well. It simply requires a lot of energy to maintain it. Depending on what you believe, it is possible that the world may suffer a large energy crisis in the next 10-20 years due to over consumption of oil (there people who believe that oil is an abiotic process and that huge stores are still available). If we do actually reach an energy critical point, then all the travel and shipping necessary to maintain the global state will come to a screeching halt. Thus, I believe it is prudent for all countries to plan for the possibility. That would include making sure farms are near large cities and transportation on a large scale (mass transit and shipping)improved.

While this is hypothetical, we are in uncharted waters for our time. The lack of energy has always affected the human race throughout history but never to this proportion. Who knows maybe a good alternative energy source will be found but probably not until we are forced to find it.
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Message 1458237 - Posted: 28 Dec 2013, 17:06:01 UTC - in response to Message 1458233.  

Nice post. Welcome to the forum Joe.
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Message boards : Politics : 6: Setting Europe Ablaze.....


 
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