Windows8: The Beginning of The End? Or... Win9 v soon!?

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Message 1371367 - Posted: 24 May 2013, 15:34:31 UTC - in response to Message 1370803.  

I am using IE 10 with Win7 x64, and the browser starts to the Home page in about 5 seconds. I find it quick ...

God that is slow ....

Just tested on my Mac, Safari opens in 1.5 sec and Firefox in 1 sec.

There is a reason it is called winDOZE.


I'm using Win 7 32 with Firefox & IE 10. All open in 2 secs. Good enough for me.
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Message 1371655 - Posted: 25 May 2013, 6:46:00 UTC
Last modified: 25 May 2013, 6:53:31 UTC

What is being ignored is that the Win 95 desktop has become the defacto industry standard desktop.

It has been used by every version of Windows since and most of the Linux desktops are built to mimic it. Most people can find their way around it with a minimum of fuss, whatever the Windows version or OS they are using.

Redesigning such a "standard" was bound to lead to problems. It's like a car manufacturer suddenly deciding to rearrange the controls in a car. People are used to the layout and a lot of operations are conditioned reflexes.

We have problems in Australia with vehicles made in Europe. When they convert them to right hand drive, they still use the LH drive steering column. i.e. blinkers on the left, wipers on the right instead of the "normal" RH Drive arrangement of blinkers on the right, wipers on the left.

It takes about a week of constant driving, with heavy concentration, before you can turn a corner at an intersection without turning the wipers on :) . Then when you go back to the "standard" layout you have to relearn the normal arrangement all over again. This is a minor thing but it demonstrates how many our day to day actions are sub-concious.

This is where M$ screwed up. As a touch screen is useless on a desktop. What they should have done is given desktop users the choice of picking either Metro or the "standard" interface as an install option. Metro itself itself could have been made a bit more usable as well, e.g. by using more relevant names for its functions (e.g. WTF does a "Charms Bar" mean/do ?)

Microsoft has only itself to blame for the current schemozzle. They created the standard nearly 20 years ago, there are people alive today who have never used anything else, so Microsoft can't expect to throw the whole lot out in one hit without expecting some (nice PC term) "Negative Feedback". They spent all that time "training " their customers to expect certain things from certain actions and then negate all that training in one foul swoop.

T.A.
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Message 1371666 - Posted: 25 May 2013, 7:03:00 UTC - in response to Message 1371655.  

+1 Great post.
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Message 1371695 - Posted: 25 May 2013, 8:21:36 UTC - in response to Message 1371676.  

Fairly easy to do when you have virtually cornered your market, and you know that your biggest costomers have nowhere else to go. Monopolism of course it is!


Not quite, Mac's & Linux are available as well as other esoteric o/s's.
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Message 1375521 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 18:57:23 UTC

Windows 9 anyone? Windows 8.1 is a bust!

Start button back, but NO start menu
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Message 1375548 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 19:37:05 UTC - in response to Message 1371655.  

+2
...
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Message 1375567 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 20:04:29 UTC - in response to Message 1375542.  

Rumour is that Win 9 is crap, and we should wait for Win 10.

(Those in the know are sticking with XP. Ssshhhhh don't tell MS)


Rumour also has it that Win 10 will solely be a Linux based kernel.
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Message 1376495 - Posted: 4 Jun 2013, 11:50:14 UTC - in response to Message 1375567.  
Last modified: 4 Jun 2013, 11:54:01 UTC

Rumour also has it that Win 10 will solely be a Linux based kernel.

Well, Microsoft has been selling Linux for a few years now:

Dell Buys Linux from Microsoft - Sells Linux and Windows Vista Side by Side

Microsoft sells Linux with Windows Azure


The scary thing is whether Microsoft will continue its campaigns of FUD against Linux or whether it will try the Microsoft 'deadly embrace'...

(I wonder if Linux is already too far ahead for the 'Microsoft Extend-into-incompatibility' to be possible? ;-) )


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Message 1376496 - Posted: 4 Jun 2013, 11:53:29 UTC

Meanwhile, is this a rare sign of true cooperation or a head-to-head butt?


Computex: Windows-Android hybrids and phablets launch

... The device is marketed as a three-in-one device which can be used as a desktop, laptop or 11.6in tablet. Its key feature is that it can run both the Jelly Bean version of Google's Android OS and Windows 8.

The firm said users would be able to synchronise data between the platforms in order to enjoy a "smooth transition" between each mode. ...



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Message 1376536 - Posted: 4 Jun 2013, 16:46:50 UTC - in response to Message 1376505.  



Get your Jellybeans here

10 for a Tanner
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Message 1376981 - Posted: 5 Jun 2013, 11:54:57 UTC

Now here is a very interesting bug fix for a very famous bug:


Ubuntu Bug One fixed? Shuttleworth says it is

Opened as the very first bug for Ubuntu, before the release of "Warty Warthog" in 2004, Bug 1, "Microsoft has a majority market share" has now been closed as "Fix Released". The original bug description observed that "Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace", explaining how it was impossible to buy a desktop machine "without any proprietary software" and that what should happen is "A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software".

Ubuntu founder Mark Shuttleworth explained in his comment closing the bug that personal computing was a "broader proposition than it was in 2004" and that, if desktop PCs were aggregated with phones, tablets and other devices, Microsoft was no longer dominant. ... Noting that Canonical and Ubuntu "have only played a small part in that shift", he says he considers "from Ubuntu's perspective, this bug is now closed".



Phew! That hum-dinger crept upon us unawares!

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Message 1380407 - Posted: 12 Jun 2013, 18:38:42 UTC

Meanwhile, continuing or attempting Marketing fixes?


So, Windows 8.1 to give PC sales a shot in arm? BZZZZT, wrong answer

Microsoft's Windows 8.1 update and the rise of tablet-cum-laptop PCs may boost sales for the software titan and its hardware-making pals - but it won't happen anytime soon...


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Message 1382296 - Posted: 17 Jun 2013, 22:28:32 UTC
Last modified: 17 Jun 2013, 22:43:14 UTC

I have been using Windows 8 since Release Preview last year and have had no problems. I bought 2 licenses while it was cheap, but one of the first things I installed was Classic Shell and set to boot to the desktop. I do not use Metro.
(I stuck with Windows 2000 until I had to (unwillingly) move to XP because of drivers and compatibility. I was happy then with XP and found it almost as stable as 2000. I installed Windows 7 once, but took it off and went back to XP within a week, I really didn't like it. Now I've moved to Windows 8 I'm finding it at least as stable as XP, possibly more, and wouldn't go back).
I have at times considered and looked at various Linux offerings, not liking what I see as Microsoft's efforts to become like Apple, but they have always seemed at best half baked and really just not worth the effort.
Apart from problems years ago with some virus attacks when using XP I have had no problems of that sort either.

Just my personal view of it all.
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Message 1384816 - Posted: 26 Jun 2013, 12:53:58 UTC

So, not too unexpectedly, after the unbelievable hype, comes the cost:


Windows 8 hype has hurt PC makers and distributors - Gartner

... 'Bought in too high and too early'... paying cost now

Gartner slashed its PC sales forecast yesterday evening amid warnings that a glut of unwanted Windows 8 kit is sitting in warehouses gathering dust. ...



So who pays?

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Message 1384851 - Posted: 26 Jun 2013, 15:26:25 UTC - in response to Message 1384835.  

Does anyone know what memory the average PC vendor is putting into Win 8 machines? I am getting seriously fed up with trying to sort out Win 7 machines that were sold brand new with just 2GB ram.

Additional memory is a profit center!

Uh, fiduciary duty and all that, sell it with just enough to boot the machine but not run anything, then when the customer asks why, trot out the 1000% markup RAM upgrade and put in what should have been there in the first place. But you can't advertise super cheap prices if you had it in the machine in the first place.

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Message 1384913 - Posted: 26 Jun 2013, 19:20:42 UTC - in response to Message 1384877.  

Basically it is the whole IT industry in cahoots with each other, the OS manufacturers, the memory makers, the hardware retailers, all "conspiring", and I use the word deliberately, to extort extra bucks out of the gullible public.

You forgot the "?"

The answer is yes.

The people who buy the most O/S's are the HP's and Dell's of the world, they are Micro$ft's customers, they tell them what they want, M$ provides it. When you forget that reality your blood pressure rises.

If this conspiracy bothers you, buy a Mac. In that case Apple the O/S maker is also their own biggest customer that being Apple the hardware maker. No need to lie 'bout such things.

If you don't like that option, then you are pretty much left with roll your own hardware and Linux where you might have to roll your own driver too.
<cynic mode off>

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Message 1384938 - Posted: 26 Jun 2013, 20:59:00 UTC - in response to Message 1384877.  

Fair points Gary but I would go a bit further. This is from the Microsoft site.

Windows 7 system requirements. If you want to run Windows 7 on your PC, here's what it takes:

1 gigahertz (GHz) or faster 32-bit (x86) or 64-bit (x64) processor
1 gigabyte (GB) RAM (32-bit) or 2 GB RAM (64-bit)
16 GB available hard disk space (32-bit) or 20 GB (64-bit)
DirectX 9 graphics device with WDDM 1.0 or higher driver

Now, when you have all stopped laughing, has anyone tried to run Win 7 on 1Gb ram? It won't run properly on 2Gb!


My personal experience doesn't mimic your own good sir. I just recently upgraded an old Core Duo (the model before the Core 2 Duo) with 2GB of RAM to Windows 7 (up from Windows XP Media Center Edition) and its like I breathed new life into that machine.

I'd say it depends on what you want to do on the machine if 2GB is enough or not. Most software is still 32bit anyway, and all 32bit software can only access up to a 2GB partition of memory on a 32bit OS (a 32bit app on a 64bit OS can access all 4GB of 32bit addressable memory space).

If you're just surfing the net or doing basic office work, 2GB of RAM is actually plenty. Most users living in a VDI environment where I work are allotted exactly that, and none of them really see a difference based upon the work they do. Now, our developers get 24GB of RAM and Windows 7 x64.
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Message 1387181 - Posted: 3 Jul 2013, 14:46:28 UTC
Last modified: 3 Jul 2013, 14:47:03 UTC

Meanwhile, going RT:


Windows RT Facing Same Fate as webOS?

... most brand vendors have already stopped developing RT products, leaving Microsoft's second-generation Surface RT the only tablet in the works based on the struggling OS.

The news arrives after Microsoft confirmed that it plans to sell Surface RT tablets at $199 to K-12 schools and higher-education institutions...

... along with dropping Surface RT prices in Japan – demand for Windows RT products won't be high...



How much of a monopoly can Microsoft keep? Or will they just be reduced to playing the game on their xbox?... Or just to giving it as a 'special deal' to school children to lap up?


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Message 1387308 - Posted: 3 Jul 2013, 18:36:00 UTC - in response to Message 1387181.  

... How much of a monopoly can Microsoft keep?...



Did I type too soon?...


Microsoft's murder most foul: TechNet is dead

Do we 'low margin' dregs matter to you anymore, Redmond? Thought not...

... Murdering TechNet is only the latest in a series of moves by Microsoft aimed at cutting the deadweight from its customer base. From shenanigans such as trying to neuter Office licences and push us all to subscriptions, to the perpetual guilty-unless-proven-innocent ratcheting shut of MSDN and TechNet subscriptions (to fight "piracy"), all have made Microsoft's ambitions clear.
Why you and I aren't really relevant at all

Microsoft can't win a fight to defend a monopoly position forever. All you need to do is look to Apple's halving of market share in the face of Android to understand that. It is simply bad business for Microsoft to continue to expend vast resources on placating the kinds of people for whom things like TechNet make a difference. ...

... The rest of us can follow – or not – as we choose. Microsoft ultimately doesn't care. Microsoft is in the process of shifting into an Oracle-like high-margin player. It wants fewer customers with bigger pockets and it isn't afraid of "drop off"...

... Make no mistake: this isn't an arrogance born out of a belief that it retains a monopoly on the desktop, the Office productivity suite, or the server market. It is a wholesale shift in approach in recognition of its loss of monopoly. ...




IT is what we make it,
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Message 1387312 - Posted: 3 Jul 2013, 18:45:16 UTC - in response to Message 1387308.  

I'm particularly upset about the death of the Technet subscription. Having one, I can say that it has helped me tremendously in my career, and because I've played around with many of Microsoft's tools through Technet, I've been able to make myself a top player on my team of IT Professionals.

I think MS is doing itself a great disservice to all the IT professionals like myself in removing an invaluable tool such as Technet. It is because of passionate people like me who are willing to learn MS's tools on our own time to make ourselves more valuable to enterprises that have adopted Microsoft technologies that has helped to make MS's corporate adoption take off. I can only hope that they reconsider their position.
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