What was actually needed when the employers said they wanted wanted MS Office users and not programmers was for all students from day one being taught how to use a computer and essential programs and a separate Computer Science subject.

Agreed. Teach the principles so that any tool of a certain type can be used.

And from experience I would say that a lot of those that teach MS Office do not have enough knowledge to teach it. My neighbour "teaches" word processing, she doesn't she teaches typing on a computer.

Unfortunately (cunningly?), part of the Marketing Myth is that a certain manufacturer's software is 'so simple and easy to use' that no training should be needed.

Fantastic... No training costs for the bosses.

The painful cost is that everyone forever inefficiently bumbles along lost and unsure and unhappy with IT...


IT is what we make it...
Martin

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See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

... due to gaping inadequacies elsewhere in IT education for example...

We went all though this a year ago Martin.

And our government last year seems to have acknowledged "ICT" teaching isn't working well enough... A problem of the 'technology' aspect being lost and the 'communication/computers' aspect being completely lost due to no specialist teachers with no specialist focus on such a fundamental skill?

But what has happened since?

Some educationalists are saying the we should be teaching computer science in schools, but that is not what the employers want. ... Employers want people who can use MS Office on Monday morning...

That's what Microsoft Marketing has brainwashed and bamboozled everyone into with massive marketing schemes and 'cheap deals' for schools and students to forever blind them for life into the Microsoft Marketing religion. Apple has had some success with that also.

What is actually wanted and what is really needed is for people to be educated so that they can use ANY office application and ANY "IT" from the get-go on Monday morning.

That is, you need to teach the underlying principles and demonstrate those principles on multiple software packages rather than blindly creating pre-programmed monkeys who are lost if a menu item is a slightly different name or is in a slightly different place. There should be no problem for anyone to use for the first time Monday morning at a new employer ANY of:

# Calligra Suite
# Apache OpenOffice (formerly known as OpenOffice.org)
# LibreOffice
# Hancom Office Suite & ThinkFree Office
# Kingsoft Office
# SoftMaker Office
# Ability Office
# Breadbox Office
# EasyOffice
# EIOffice (Evermore Integrated Office)
# Framework
# Gobe Productive
# Ichitaro JUST Suite 2008
# IBM Lotus SmartSuite — For Windows 9x, NT, 2000 and XP only
# Microsoft Office
# Microsoft Works
# WordPerfect Office
# Breadbox Office
# Corel WordPerfect for DOS
# NeoOffice
# iWork
# MarinerPak
# Microsoft Office for Mac
# Microsoft Works
# AUIS
# Siag Office
# Interleaf
# Aster*x
# Documents To Go
# Google Docs
# Kingsoft Office
# Picsel Smart Office
# Polaris Office
# QuickOffice, QuickOffice HD Pro
# SoftMaker Office
# ThinkFree Office Mobile
# Kingsoft Office Suite
# ContactOffice
# Google Docs
# Windows Live Office
# Zoho Office Suite
# Feng Office
# Tiki Wiki CMS Groupware
# ShareOffice
# Simdesk
# ThinkFree Office
# AppleWorks
# IBM Lotus Symphony
# IBM Works
# Island Office
# Jambo OpenOffice
# Lotus Symphony
# Lotus Jazz
# Open Access
# Q&A
# StarOffice

See: Wikipedia - List of office suites

The underlying principles should be taught of what are and how they work of "GUI", "WYSIWIG", different views of the same data, underlying concepts such as files, filesystems and hierarchy, versions, temporary workspaces, clipboard, editor layers and different views, and so on...

Then, REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE SOFTWARE IS CALLED, anyone can use any software for whatever features it offers.

We really do need to get away from the "It's not Microsoft XP SP2 so I don't know what to do" zombies.

Being able to program in Java is all very clever but it doesn't pay the bills if you cant use a simple spreadsheet!

Hopefully, if you're aware of programming, you'll already be fully aware of what a spreadsheet is, what sort of things it can do, and knock up in a few minutes to reformat a ".csv" file to do whatever business cleverness is required without suffering the turgid mess that is Microsoft "VBA"...


Note: You need to be aware of some programming concepts just merely to format these postings on this forum...


We've been ridiculously stifled for far far too long whereby it is supposedly illegal(!) to program a bought computer (nasty hacking eh?) or at the very least, the software to do any programming is overly expensive and discouraged. Note how certain vendors are now maneuvering for 'consumers' not now even being allowed to own their own bought hardware to do with as they please... (All under the guise of supposed 'IP rights'...)


Wheee... Is that why the Raspberry Pi has literally exploded into existence to wipe the corporate silliness out of our homes and schools?...


IT is what the people make it...
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

What was actually needed when the employers said they wanted wanted MS Office users and not programmers was for all students from day one being taught how to use a computer and essential programs and a separate Computer Science subject.

Correct.

And from experience I would say that a lot of those that teach MS Office do not have enough knowledge to teach it. My neighbour "teaches" word processing, she doesn't she teaches typing on a computer.

I taught ECDL for 8 years, both at L2 and the advanced stuff at L3, which I had passed myself. I also have a Microsoft Word Expert certificate. In official paid FE positions, you can't teach what you haven't passed yourself with paperwork to prove it, nor can you either without a teachers qualification. I have a Diploma in Teaching IT.

It sounds like to me that all your neighbour does is just instruct in basic keyboard skills and that's it. If people want to pay her money for that then I've no sympathy for them. I hope she doesn't advertise publicly else she ought to be reported to trading Standards.

due to gaping inadequacies elsewhere in IT education for example...

We went all though this a year ago Martin. Some educationalists are saying the we should be teaching computer science in schools, but that is not what the employers want. Colleges scrapped the ECDL because the government took away the funding and replaced it with "Train to Gain" which was a disaster. Employers want people who can use MS Office on Monday morning to at least L2, without needing in house training, that is what the ECDL gave them. What is the point of people leaving school or college with an HNC/D in computer studies, when they cant get a job? Being able to program in Java is all very clever but it doesn't pay the bills if you cant use a simple spreadsheet!

What was actually needed when the employers said they wanted wanted MS Office users and not programmers was for all students from day one being taught how to use a computer and essential programs and a separate Computer Science subject.

And from experience I would say that a lot of those that teach MS Office do not have enough knowledge to teach it. My neighbour "teaches" word processing, she doesn't she teaches typing on a computer.

due to gaping inadequacies elsewhere in IT education for example...

We went all though this a year ago Martin. Some educationalists are saying the we should be teaching computer science in schools, but that is not what the employers want. Colleges scrapped the ECDL because the government took away the funding and replaced it with "Train to Gain" which was a disaster. Employers want people who can use MS Office on Monday morning to at least L2, without needing in house training, that is what the ECDL gave them. What is the point of people leaving school or college with an HNC/D in computer studies, when they cant get a job? Being able to program in Java is all very clever but it doesn't pay the bills if you cant use a simple spreadsheet!

Or how stupid the teachers were.

And there is quite a problem...

There are certainly some very good and very dedicated teachers.

And then again, there are many that are teachers simply because they cannot do anything else...


We really do need to get a lot more serious about education... For all our futures. The RasPi is one unofficial initiative that has literally exploded into existence due to gaping inadequacies elsewhere in IT education for example...


IT is what we make it...
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Now here's some excellent initiative that should send them to the top of their class:


Alaska phishing pupils take over classroom computers

A group of pupils at a middle school in Alaska took control of their classroom computers after phishing for administrator privileges.

They asked teachers at Schoenbar Middle School, for 12 to 13-year-olds, to enter admin names and passwords to accept a false software update...

The pupils used those details to access and control classmates' PCs...



What that really shows is just how fatally flawed is our present system of username/passwords and being foisted with external updates... And yet...

Ready to get 0wned?...


IT is what we make it...
Martin

Or how stupid the teachers were.

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[/quote]

Old James

There's a good lesson don't let the kids at your computer ....lol

Smart little buggers

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Now here's some excellent initiative that should send them to the top of their class:


Alaska phishing pupils take over classroom computers

A group of pupils at a middle school in Alaska took control of their classroom computers after phishing for administrator privileges.

They asked teachers at Schoenbar Middle School, for 12 to 13-year-olds, to enter admin names and passwords to accept a false software update...

The pupils used those details to access and control classmates' PCs...



What that really shows is just how fatally flawed is our present system of username/passwords and being foisted with external updates... And yet...

Ready to get 0wned?...


IT is what we make it...
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

http://www.darkreading.com/vulnerability/open-source-software-libraries-get-renew/240153961

As companies increasingly create applications and internal tools on top of open-source building blocks, vulnerabilities in those common components are becoming a serious threat.

Yet, the lion's share of companies continue to ignore the problem, according to a report released this week. While nearly 80 percent of companies rely on open-source components for their development efforts, more than three-quarters lack any meaningful controls over the usage of such libraries and frameworks, according to the annual Open Source Software Development Survey conducted by Sonatype, a manager of a large repository of open-source components. While many companies have started to develop their own applications with security in mind, they have typically treated online components with less rigor, says Wayne Jackson, the firm's CEO.

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This looks like some unwelcome nefariousness besmirching a good name:


Mozilla accuses Finfisher makers of 'hiding' under name

... In 2011 the BBC found documents in the state security building in Egypt, looted during the uprising, which suggested that the Hampshire-based firm had offered to supply Finfisher to the Egyptian government to monitor activists.

Gamma International denied supplying it but the files seen by the BBC described a five month trial which included successful access to email accounts and the recording of encrypted Skype calls.

The Mozilla Foundation has now sent a cease and desist letter, warning Gamma International not to use the name of Firefox, its open source browser, as camouflage for the programme.

"Our brand and trademarks are used by the spyware as a method to avoid detection and deletion," said Mozilla chief privacy officer Alex Fowler in a statement.

"As an open source project trusted by hundreds of millions of people around the world, defending Mozilla's trademarks from this abuse is vital to our brand, mission and continued success."


IT is what we make it...
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Why the diffance anyway it's a freaking you bout! new way of doing things is in't it

wow man I can't believe that

I thought only home loans are 13 lunar months ??????

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I had a prob with my Electicy they where over charging me so I phone's them up and they bounced me around every freaking department for 3.5hrs it was lucky I used a friends landline and not my mobile .In the end they owed me $279 they hadn't given me a rebate i'm spose to get for 9mths

Like you said there quick to take ya cash but not fix or give ya the money back
you just got to persist and tell them 5 days different that b/s make it the 3rd or 2nd

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I got a headace just trying to read that double duch .......if it starts on the 3rt what has the day your bought the dam thing got to do with the debit ????

Exactly my point. Personally, think they do that deliberately. Just think of all the people that purchase those cards & fell for the same catch....

...all that lovely $$$$ 3 to 5 days early earning them interest!

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I got a headace just trying to read that double duch .......if it starts on the 3rt what has the day your bought the dam thing got to do with the debit ????

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Update

Not a computer cockup after all. Company replied. the recurring payment will be the same day as the original purchase - makes sense I suppose, but then that just proves me right, many that use computers just do not understand what they're doing or what they're reading!

I made the original purchase on 28th March, therefore all future payments will be on the 28th (they did mention a workaround which I intend to use to bring it to the 1st of every month), but the start date was 3rd April meaning it would expire on the 2nd May, making that the recurring payment date for the smart card to recommence on the 3rd of every month!

Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesssssssssssssssh give me strength!

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Yes, that was what got me worried. However, I have regular recurring D/D's from my account & on setup, regardless of amount, are taken out on the 1st of every month & only 12 times per year.

As far as I'm concerned, a recurring monthly payment should mean just that as there is only 12 months in a year.

I have e-mailed the company & just waiting for them to reply.

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I had a similar problem with the state pension. my other half got her pension before I did, and when I filled in her tax form for her I looked at the in-payment on her bank statement that month, multiplied it by 12 and used that figure on the form. Wrong! What I didn't know was that the State pension is paid every 4 weeks, it should have been 13 not 12. So she understated her income which they picked up on the following year, and altered hex tax code accordingly.

Calendar months can be 28, 30 or 31 days, so it's easier for the banks to work on a permanent 28 day month for outgoing payments. But of course, most salaries and other income is paid on the last working day of the month, which also varies because of weekends. That means that over a year regular debits against your account can cross with payments in, which can cause embarrassment if like me you don't keep much in your current account. I keep a close eye on it.

Here's an issue that can be problematic if setup the wrong way & its one that I've seen companies move more & more to since the economic crisis started....

..just how is the term "Monthly" seen by computer systems?

My wife has just fallen foul of it. For some considerable time she purchased a weekly travel ticket to cover her transport costs to work. Over the years the cost has been increased, not by much, but it all adds up.

Recently, she was talking to staff at the local bus station & they informed her that as a regular commuter, she would be better off financially if she purchased their new Smart Card, which is only monthly.

Weekly = £13.00
Monthly = £52.00 (we never went for this as a photocard was required which curtailed anyone else from using it, compared to the weekly one where anyone can use it)
Smart Card = £42.50

Just over a year ago, the monthly changed to 28 days & still at a cost of £52.00.

The smart card was setup by a regular recurring monthly payment from her debit card & as she is paid on the last working day of every month, we started the initial payment on the 3rd April as the payments are taken a few days before the actual renewal date - in this case 3rd May, so she expected the next payment to be taken on 1st May, which is no problem as she gets paid on the 30th April.

On checking her e-mail this morning, she has found 2 e-mails from the bus company & payment company stating that her card had failed - date received 28th April.

As far as I'm concerned, Monthly is a full calendar month with only 12 per year.

Computer cockup or human cockup?

Personally, I believe they're using a 28 day month for the recurring payments (it does not state that on their website, just recurring monthly).

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Oh no I better go and do wot the Kori's do go walkabout in the bush

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