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Firearms. Who or what is dangerous?
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Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30651 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Wouldn't the world be so rosy and nice if the word weapon didn't exist in any language. Take off the rose colored glasses. If you take one weapon away a different one will be used. Is a dozen sticks with a 10 inch kitchen knife somehow to be so preferred to a single bullet? I suppose one is more likely to cause society to spend large sums on health care over the other. |
Es99 Send message Joined: 23 Aug 05 Posts: 10874 Credit: 350,402 RAC: 0 |
I think the reason that we are having this discussion is because, unlike the knife attack that happened in China where 22 children were injured, 20 children were killed in Sandy Hook. The difference is that in one case the weapon used was a knife, in the other the weapon used was a gun. There really is a huge difference between an injured child and a dead one. The line needs to be drawn. Reality Internet Personality |
rob smith Send message Joined: 7 Mar 03 Posts: 22200 Credit: 416,307,556 RAC: 380 |
I agree, it would be great if there were no "weapons" of any sort, but we aren't. The control of firearms is about controlling the risk by controlling something that it is possible to control. Here in the UK we have some pretty serious firearms control, we also have controls on the knives, and other things that might be used as weapons. The don't stop people being shot, stabbed or hit with a blunt object, they reduce the risk of such acts. As far as I can see the biggest obstacle in the US to sensible gun control is the NRA and the industry that supports them in generating a culture of paranoia. This paranoia instils in people the fear that if they don't have a gun they will get shot by someone with a gun. Since when did owning a gun stop someone being shot? In an encounter with an armed person even if you hit with your first shot someone has been shot - think how many people in our armed services have been shot in the last 100 years. Bob Smith Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society) Somewhere in the (un)known Universe? |
rob smith Send message Joined: 7 Mar 03 Posts: 22200 Credit: 416,307,556 RAC: 380 |
Going back to the thread title,and answering the question. Many years ago, when I first underwent any firearms training, our instructor, an old Corporal, handed us all mirrors at start of the first session in the training room. He told us to look at our faces "Ladies and Gentlemen, you are now looking at the most dangerous part of any weapon system - remember and learn". This was before he lifted the cloths of the table at the front and uncovered enough small arms, automatics and other weapons to start a war, "These weapons are all perfectly safe despite being loaded, they are sitting on a table not being held in someone's hands". A salutatory lesson was learnt by all that day. Bob Smith Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society) Somewhere in the (un)known Universe? |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30651 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
We are having this discussion because you have all forgotten that the weapon of choice for the Manson family was the knife. |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30651 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Many years ago, when I first underwent any firearms training, our instructor, an old Corporal, handed us all mirrors at start of the first session in the training room. He told us to look at our faces "Ladies and Gentlemen, you are now looking at the most dangerous part of any weapon system - remember and learn". So vary true. It is the person who is the danger. More so if they are not trained. |
kittyman Send message Joined: 9 Jul 00 Posts: 51468 Credit: 1,018,363,574 RAC: 1,004 |
I have no firearms at this moment. However. I defend my RIGHT to own then at any point in time I feel my security is jeopordized. Like today, like right now, like at any point I choose. My choice right now......? A nice, stainless .45 auto with a 9 shot clip. And several spare clips. I happen to know what it takes to stop an intruder. Six shots or only five, as Clint said........it took seven. He did NOT stop until the last round hit his chest. You want me to empty my clip and then say.....Oh, shit? Not on my watch, morons. And this is such an inane argument anyway you are having. The second amendment is NOT about having a gun in the house to fend off criminals.. There were just not that many criminals at that time. It was about, and right now is about, having the means to defend the public against. Illegal search and seizure, and the 'don't tread upon me' legalities of a corrupted government. Which is what we have right now. You cannot see the corruption at the federal level that is happening right now? "Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster |
Es99 Send message Joined: 23 Aug 05 Posts: 10874 Credit: 350,402 RAC: 0 |
I have no firearms at this moment. I'll repost this for you Mark because it seem to have got lost in the kerfuffle. THE HIDDEN HISTORY OF THE SECOND AMENDMENT "This Article challenges the insurrectionist model. The Second Amendment was not enacted to provide a check on government tyranny; rather, it was written to assure the Southern states that Congress would not undermine the slave system by using its newly acquired constitutional authority over the militia to disarm the state militia and thereby destroy the South's principal instrument of slave control. In effect, the Second Amendment supplemented the slavery compromise made at the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia and obliquely codified in other constitutional provisions.[52]" An interesting, well researched paper on the true history of the 2nd amendment. Also explains where I.D. is getting his information from. It does appear that the 2nd amendment was drafted so that the Southern States could protect themselves from a slave uprising. Reality Internet Personality |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30651 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
It was about, and right now is about, having the means to defend the public against. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wounded_Knee_incident http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_siege http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Creek_raid http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YFZ_Ranch http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jones Yep, they are coming for you. |
Jim_S Send message Joined: 23 Feb 00 Posts: 4705 Credit: 64,560,357 RAC: 31 |
With My Firearms I'm dangerous...I'm dangerous to Large Game Animals, Small Game Animals, Tasty Birds and Any Home Intruder or Steel Silhouette Target from 0 to 800 Meters. I dislike Handguns, Assault Weapons and any untrained nut with a Weapon. I also like a Shotgun for Game and Clay Pigeons and a .22 semi-auto for small Game and Target shooting. However My Wife has a Handgun for self defense. I Desire Peace and Justice, Jim Scott (Mod-Ret.) |
Scary Capitalist Send message Joined: 21 May 01 Posts: 7404 Credit: 97,085 RAC: 0 |
Does Utilitarian philosophy still reign? The U.S.A. FBI crime statistics always show that many more violent crimes are prevented by the actual presence of guns than with them (these are the only comprehensive statistics available)It is something approacfhing 20-1 in favor of the victim. It may be ugly to certain people with enhanced sensibilites but doesn't mean it makes the citizzery that much safer. From a practical point of view, guns that are modernally effective last now for hundreds of years. They are impossible to get rid of. Further, the risk of putting American citizens against eachother due to draconian anti-gun laws is risky for society, alienating many that hold votes and political sway. It's just not wise or right. Since most gun owners exercise their right responsibly there's little to fear from such people. Violent crime has been going DOWN over the past decade....even in Chicago. Mass shootings are down. In countries like U.K. violent crimes increase since their gun bans. Hacked to death with a machete in a shop is preferable perhaps to some. What does someone actually fear from a person who is her/his neighbor with guns in his house? This is a mystery to most rational people. It almost smacks of psychological displacement where the desire to force others is projected upon someone else because of the tendencies of another. None of it makes much rational sense. Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data! I did NOT authorize this belly writing! |
James Sotherden Send message Joined: 16 May 99 Posts: 10436 Credit: 110,373,059 RAC: 54 |
Does Utilitarian philosophy still reign? You raise a good point about the fear of firearms. I was raised around guns. taught they were not toys and the rules about handling them. There are some folks who just about wet themselves when they find out I have one. I have 5 duaghters. Three of them married men who like to hunt and target shoot. One is not keen on the idea of firearms and one goes into fits about hearing the word. Now I keep all my firearms in a safe and so do the sons in laws who have firearms. The older grandkids who like to target shoot have been raised to know the rules also. They aslo know how to safely handle one. Now the other two daughters. They have kids, who have no clue about firearms. I was told flat out not to ever show them a firearm or even how to safely handle one. All the kids know the rule that if you see a fire arm, stop, dont touch it and tell an adult. But I ask you this. What if they are over at a friends house and they find a firearm. Id hope it was one of my grandkids who know the rules and knows they are not toys. [/quote] Old James |
Sarge Send message Joined: 25 Aug 99 Posts: 12273 Credit: 8,569,109 RAC: 79 |
I hear that certain southern Sheriffs will get to decide what is constitutional, instead of the Supreme Court. Sure sounds rational to me, with me IQ of 62. |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30651 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
http://news.yahoo.com/missile-launcher-shows-seattle-gun-buyback-174331546.html SEATTLE (AP) — Seattle police worked with Army officials Monday to track down the history of a nonfunctional missile launcher that showed up at a weapons buyback program and determine whether it was legal or possibly stolen from the military. So prohibitions on assault weapons will work, just like laws preventing the public from having stinger missiles. I'm so glad I live in a country without criminals. |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30651 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Amerika has a mental health problem ... http://edition.cnn.com/2013/01/30/health/mental-illness-guns/index.html?hpt=hp_c1 Gerald Hume was described in the affidavit as a "known schizophrenic (who) hears voices, and requires treatment" and who has had "several mental health interventions with OCPD" and a history of violent behavior. What is this person doing walking the streets? Want the what? Last November, Oklahoma City police officers went to check on an elderly woman after relatives reported they hadn't heard from her in a while. Again, why is a violent schizophrenic who hears voices doing walking the streets? |
Sarge Send message Joined: 25 Aug 99 Posts: 12273 Credit: 8,569,109 RAC: 79 |
Well, ya see, when someone is an inpatient, the caregiver working with them on their treatment sets up these goals. Goals to achieve before moving from 3rd to 2nd floor, 2nd to 1st, 1st to outpatient, outpatient to fully out in society without a net. Then, in the late 80s, the goals were made ridiculously easy to achieve, the patients were told what goals they had to achieve, etc. ... . Hey, when you see that guy about 20 years old, brown hair, don't assume he's the son you haven't seen a few weeks and run up to him and start talking to him. Why did they make the goals easy to achieve and known to the patients? It's cheaper. In the short run. |
Terror Australis Send message Joined: 14 Feb 04 Posts: 1817 Credit: 262,693,308 RAC: 44 |
It's the same story the whole world over. Mental health care being down graded to save costs. Of course it was all done in the name of "patients rights" and "reintegrating them into the community" and all that blather, but mainly it was done to save costs. In all countries it was conveniently ignored that there were those who needed constant supervision to make sure they stayed on their medication and those who were a potential danger to the community. The police are powerless, they cannot take action unless a person actually kills or injures someone, even if their relatives have advised the police that the person is a potential danger to themselves and others. The gaols have become defacto mental institutions. Even in Australia it is estimated that 50% of inmates have psychiatric problems. The advantage here in Australia is that such people do not have ready access to firearms, therefore, when they go off the rails they are limited to less lethal weapons. Taking a knife to the top of a tall building has nowhere near the danger to the public as taking a rifle and a hundred rounds of ammunition. There are very few votes in pushing for more spending on mental health. T.A. |
MOMMY: He is MAKING ME Read His Posts Thoughts and Prayers. GOoD Thoughts and GOoD Prayers. HATERWORLD Vs THOUGHTs and PRAYERs World. It Is a BATTLE ROYALE. Nobody LOVEs Me. Everybody HATEs Me. Why Don't I Go Eat Worms. Tasty Treats are Wormy Meat. Yes Send message Joined: 16 Jun 02 Posts: 6895 Credit: 6,588,977 RAC: 0 |
One Of Our Noted Brainiacs stated there are No Attacks At A Gun Range, because that is Where The Guns Are. Well, It Happened. Two Men. Gone. Read The Story from whatever source you like. WFAA/Channel 8 quoted unnamed sources as saying that Kyle of Midlothian and a neighbor had taken Routh on an outing to help him deal with post-traumatic stress disorder. Routh turned on the men and shot them in the back, the report added. The sheriff said he could not confirm how the victims were shot. Star-Telegram Who Or What Is Dangerous? Humans. Damn Dirty Handed Humans. IGNORE Say: Humans Bad. Guns Good. May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!! |
Sarge Send message Joined: 25 Aug 99 Posts: 12273 Credit: 8,569,109 RAC: 79 |
One Of Our Noted Brainiacs stated there are No Attacks At A Gun Range, because that is Where The Guns Are. Really? Who said that? Coincidence that I saw a post like that in a "meme" a few hours ago on a social media site? |
Terror Australis Send message Joined: 14 Feb 04 Posts: 1817 Credit: 262,693,308 RAC: 44 |
It seems genuine. The story gets the first 3 pages of hits on Google for a search of "Two men shot at gun range" T.A. |
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