If they allow a drunk person to drive away in that vehicle they are breaking the law.

Cite please.

---

My Physiatrist brother in law pointed me to this publication. Crime is not his field. He specialises in health problems in immigrants especially those who don't learn the local language.
Mind UK - Mental health facts and statistics

Dangerousness
Introduction

This page explores the nature of dangerousness and the differing perceptions of dangerousness, how literature and the media influence these perceptions, and how these perceptions can impact different groups of people, particularly those with mental health problems. The page also provides statistics relating to dangerousness and its links with mental health problems, propensity to violence and predictors of dangerousness.
What is dangerousness?

Although “dangerousness” is an emotive term that is widely used in the mental health field and the media, there is no consensus on its meaning. [1] Dangerousness has been described as: "an unpredictable and untreatable tendency to inflict or risk serious, irreversible injury or destruction, or to induce others to do so" [2] and "a propensity to cause serious physical injury or lasting physical harm". [3]

In his article ‘Defining the terms’ in Dangerousness, psychiatric assessment and management, Gunn states that the term dangerousness is made up of three elements – destructiveness, prediction and fear. “The latter, fear, makes it at least partially subjective, therefore it can never be entirely objective." [4] Prediction is also highly subjective.

Perceptions of dangerousness vary, and literature and the media influence these perceptions. The most common perception of dangerousness is in the form of one person presenting a danger to others. More often than not, however, dangerousness presents in the form of people being a danger to themselves, through suicide or deliberate self-harm.

Public perceptions of dangerousness can impact on different groups of people, particularly people with mental health problems and people from minority ethnic groups. The effects of such stigmatisation can be extremely negative, and in some cases has even led people from these groups to become victims of violent crime.

These issues are discussed in more detail below.
Key facts about violence

Out of 1,564 people convicted for homicide in England and Wales between April 1996 and April 1999, 164 (10 per cent) were found to have had symptoms of mental health problems at the time of the offence. [5] A later study looking at homicides committed between January 1997 and December 2005 found that the same proportion, 10 per cent (510 of 5,189), were by individuals known to have had mental health problems at the time of the offence. [6]

In 2009, the total population in England and Wales aged 16 or over was just over 43 million. It has been estimated that about one in six of the adult population will have a significant mental health problem at any one time, [7], [8] which amounts to more than 7 million people. Given this number and the 50–70 cases of homicide a year involving people known to have a mental health problem at the time of the murder, [9] clearly the statistics data do not support the sensationalised media coverage about the danger that people with mental health problems present to the community.

The majority of violent crimes and homicides are committed by people who do not have mental health problems. In fact, 95 per cent of homicides are committed by people who have not been diagnosed with a mental health problem.[10]

Contrary to popular belief, the incidence of homicide committed by people diagnosed with mental health problems has stayed at a fairly constant level since the 1990s. [11]

The fear of random unprovoked attacks on strangers by people with mental health problems is unjustified. This has been highlighted by a US finding that patients with psychosis who are living in the community are 14 times more likely to be the victims of a violent crime than to be arrested for such a crime. [12]

According to the British Crime Survey, almost half (47 per cent) of the victims of violent crimes believed that their offender was under the influence of alcohol and about 17 per cent believed that the offender was under the influence of drugs. [13] Another survey suggested that about 30 per cent of victims believed that the offender attacked them because they were under the influence of drugs or alcohol. In contrast, only one per cent of victims believed that the violent incident happened because the offender had a mental illness. [14]

People with mental health problems are more dangerous to themselves than they are to others: 90 per cent of people who die through suicide in the UK are experiencing mental distress. [15]

People with serious mental illness are more likely to be the victim of a violent crime than the perpetrator. One study found that more than one in four people with a severe mental illness had been a victim of crime in one year. [16]

It is also worth keeping in mind that many cases of violence in the community get reported three times – the event, the court case, and the inquiry report – thus greatly exaggerating the number of cases in the public’s mind.

So if these figures are similar in the US, those that want to lock up the "crazies" want to lock up 1 in 6 or 50 Million Americans, to stop ~350 violent crimes committed by people with mental health problems, out of about 1.2 million violent crimes committed each year in the US.

The internet is an amazing thing, you can find anything on it. Guy has.

I sometimes wonder though if I am getting a distorted view of America through it. From what I can gather from this thread alone, guns are people and have rights. Woman are people until they get pregnant, then they have no rights, but the bundle of cells that can't survive without them count as people.
The mentally ill are not people, they don't have rights.

So in America guns, balls of cells and corporations are people and Americans will fight to protect their constitutional rights.

Children are people, but protecting guns is more important that protecting children.

The mentally ill and woman are not people and have no constitutional rights.

..and people wonder why I wouldn't want to live there.

About 51% of us see things your way. And growing.

It's a start.

---

#resist

The internet is an amazing thing, you can find anything on it. Guy has.

I sometimes wonder though if I am getting a distorted view of America through it. From what I can gather from this thread alone, guns are people and have rights. Woman are people until they get pregnant, then they have no rights, but the bundle of cells that can't survive without them count as people.
The mentally ill are not people, they don't have rights.

So in America guns, balls of cells and corporations are people and Americans will fight to protect their constitutional rights.

Children are people, but protecting guns is more important that protecting children.

The mentally ill and woman are not people and have no constitutional rights.

..and people wonder why I wouldn't want to live there.

---

Reality Internet Personality

The internet is an amazing thing, you can find anything on it. Guy has.

---

What? Nobody is talking about BANNING ALL GUNS.

http://www.wnd.com/2013/01/ex-nyc-mayor-ban-all-guns/
http://www.phillyburbs.com/my_town/doylestown/us-should-ban-all-firearms/article_0e7b7d8f-e4a5-5908-9c2c-6d94e90aba36.html
http://americablog.com/2012/12/its-time-to-ban-guns-completely.html
http://www.tnr.com/blog/plank/105337/yes-really-ban-all-the-guns#
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/01/01/Reminder-Sen-Feinstein-Said-She-Wants-All-Guns-Banned
http://www.dailypaul.com/234041/wednesday-obama-took-t-first-major-step-to-ban-all-firearms-in-united-states
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/12/14/after-newtown-this-has-to-be-the-time-for-gun-control.html
http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Article/124553-2012-12-16-ban-all-guns-now.htm
http://www.dailypaul.com/268337/illinois-goes-all-in-moves-to-ban-all-guns-criminalize-owners
http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/jack-lessenberry/47182/ban-all-guns-now-nobody-needs-to-have-a-handgun-in-america-period
http://www.thedailycrux.com/Post/41975/The-bottom-line-on-calls-to--ban-guns--in-America

We currently have legislation (proposed or otherwise) to ban all guns?


(If we did I might be over on your side)

---

#resist

In Guy's mind we might be banning guns.

---

Are you telling me that car keys aren't concealable? Are you telling me that boozers don't drive? Are you telling me it is impossible to buy a car from a private party and never bother to have a license or register the car?

If you do these things there is a chance that you will get caught and held accountable. There is no such accountability for guns.

A bartender who allows a patron to leave his bar drunk and knowingly lets that person get into a car and drive will be in a hell of a lot of trouble.

There are no laws against gun stores selling guns to drunk people.

You are really reaching Es. There are no laws against selling cars to drunk people.

If they allow a drunk person to drive away in that vehicle they are breaking the law. However, if a gun seller allows a drunk person to walk out of the store with gun, they are not breaking the law.

---

Reality Internet Personality

Drunk drivers kill thousands of people every year. BANS CARS!

I wasn't aware that we were banning guns.

---

#resist

There are no laws against selling cars

When Whack Jobs are MOWING DOWN SCORES OF PEOPLE WITH THEIR CARS/TRUCKS, because they cannot Get Guns, then you will see Car Control.

http://articles.cnn.com/2003-07-16/us/farmers.market.crash_1_russell-weller-accident-pedestrians?_s=PM:US

---

There are no laws against selling cars

When Whack Jobs are MOWING DOWN SCORES OF PEOPLE WITH THEIR CARS/TRUCKS, because they cannot Get Guns, then you will see Car Control.

And DEM/Libs will Be Beaming From Ear To Ear.

PROFessor S. Say: No End To The Ingenuity Of A Whack Job Intent On Destruction.

---

Interesting. 2 hang ups from an area code in TX.

if they weren't from India via VOIP -- pick your caller ID message

My Obamaphone doesn't allow that.

LOL!


(Thanks for that laugh Sarge!)

---

#resist

Are you telling me that car keys aren't concealable? Are you telling me that boozers don't drive? Are you telling me it is impossible to buy a car from a private party and never bother to have a license or register the car?

If you do these things there is a chance that you will get caught and held accountable. There is no such accountability for guns.

A bartender who allows a patron to leave his bar drunk and knowingly lets that person get into a car and drive will be in a hell of a lot of trouble.

There are no laws against gun stores selling guns to drunk people.

You are really reaching Es. There are no laws against selling cars to drunk people.

---

FREE MEN have guns. SLAVES don't.

Guy, so you are saying I wasn't a free man until I became a gun owner?

---

Free men do not need guns

Only the paranoid need guns

---

Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?

Based on studies by Bloomberg, Now there is an unbiased opinion. NOT.
I can see some reforms do need to be made. The first one is to prosecute every idiot who breaks a gun law. Right from illegal possesion, to using one in a crime. Those laws are on the books allready. ENFORCE THEM!!!!

Who is going to enforce them? The ATF? The NRA lobby has ensured that the ATF no longer has the power to do that.

---

Reality Internet Personality