Message boards :
Politics :
The Fiscal Cliff -- Is it time?
Message board moderation
Author | Message |
---|---|
KWSN - MajorKong Send message Joined: 5 Jan 00 Posts: 2892 Credit: 1,499,890 RAC: 0 |
I am sure that most all of you have heard, by now, of the so-called fiscal cliff that the USA is facing Jan. 1, 2013. It is a combination of expiration of temporary tax cuts, new taxes on various things going into effect, and spending cuts mandated by the failure of a Congressional committee to find an alternative in a deal made by Congress to raise the Government Debt ceiling. Perhaps we should just take our medicine and let the fiscal cliff take effect instead of trying to find some compromise to avoid it. Think about it. The Democrats want nothing but tax rate increases. While the Republicans might accept some revenue enhancements through elimination of various deductions, etc., they want the bulk of the 'savings' to come through spending cuts, namely to entitlements. Both the Democrats and the Republicans have something to love in the 'cliff', and something to hate. The Democrats get cuts in defense spending and higher tax rates at the cost of cuts to entitlements. The Republicans get cuts to entitlements at the cost of higher tax rates and cuts to defense spending. The best part is that it is already a done deal. Both sides need to agree to just let it hit and to not try to undo it. Yes, going off over the cliff would likely push us into recession rather quickly, but it is likely we would go into recession anyway at some point in 2013. The bad effects of the tax increases (remember, even President Obama once said you shouldn't raise taxes during economic hard times) pale in comparison to the harm that the huge federal deficits are doing to the economy. The bad part is that the fiscal cliff is only about 10% of what we need. ~ US$100 billion per year down, ~US$900 billion per year to go... The best way out of the deficit hole is to grow our way out through private sector economic growth. The main engine of economic growth is small business. After all, small business accounts for about 60% of the private sector jobs. Someone needs to sit down and educate President Obama on this. His much touted figure of $250,000.00 / year for phase in of tax hikes is somewhat too low. If that figure of $250k stands, it will eviscerate small business. I can see the need for some revenue enhancements, preferably coupled with reform of the tax code. Yes, we spend more than we need to on defense. But, no matter how you slice it, we must make some meaningful cuts to social programs/entitlements. In the past, I have suggested across the board spending cuts of x%. This would avoid a lot of debates and arguing about various sacred cow programs, and likely be easier to get passed. Then let each social program decide whether to reduce benefit size, tighten eligibility, or some combination of both. If we exempt some programs from cuts that will require even more massive cuts in others, maybe even eliminating them altogether. And remember, the programs you would wish to be cut deeply or eliminated to save your sacred cow program will be someone else's sacred cow. No, the way I see it is that while an across the board spending cut by a fixed percentage combined with some amount of revenue enhancement in order to eliminate the deficit (and hopefully have a surplus to pay off the non-US Government held portion of the national debt over time) would hurt almost everyone in the short term, over the long term we would ALL be better off. If we continue on doing what we are doing now and not eliminate the deficit and pay down the national debt, the thought of what kind of nation/world my three little children (7 months through 4 1/2 years) will have to live in when they are grown up just burns my backside. https://youtu.be/iY57ErBkFFE #Texit Don't blame me, I voted for Johnson(L) in 2016. Truth is dangerous... especially when it challenges those in power. |
soft^spirit Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 6497 Credit: 34,134,168 RAC: 0 |
As far as the Bush tax cuts, they very much favored the wealthiest. Time to give up on any compromise and let them expire. After that maybe we can talk about some real tax reform. Janice |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30647 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
As far as the Bush tax cuts, they very much favored the wealthiest. Time to give up on any compromise and let them expire. Yes, the mandatory cuts to welfare, unemployment insurance, social security and medicare are so needed. Let's go over the cliff with Bush. Let's go over the cliff with Bush. Makes a nice jingle don't you think? The rich absolutely can't see this coming. The Dow Jones must be exploding up on the fantastic news that Obama has come to save us from the Bush cuts. I mean they wouldn't be selling out and going to gold before the Bush cuts expire, now would they? That would mean massive unemployment and 401(k)'s being wiped out. No they are responsible socialists and would never do anything in their own self interest and will happily pay the highest tax possible. |
W-K 666 Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 19057 Credit: 40,757,560 RAC: 67 |
You didn't pay your taxes, way back when, and yet you still come looking for handouts when the going gets tough. Barack Obama can live without Churchill's bust, but not UK cash Yes, the UK. Britain accounted for $46.7bn of the $226bn the US attracted in foreign direct investment last year. It has been the single biggest source of foreign investment for seven out of the past 10 years, according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis. And like Oliver Twist you want more. |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30647 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Double the sales tax on any purchase made on Thanksgiving Day. |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30647 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Excellent idea! It should be double on all those federal holidays everyone else has to work on. |
Nick Send message Joined: 11 Oct 11 Posts: 4344 Credit: 3,313,107 RAC: 0 |
They'll only get it if they deserve it. Just please ask them to stop sending their cockeyed ideas over the pond. We DON'T want a Mayor of London, we DON'T want Police Commissioners, what other bright ideas have they got? Oh gawd, just don't ask ..... Their nicking our ideas now, social spending policies like we have that are guaranteed to be ruinous to their economy over the coming years....God help America!! The Kite Fliers -------------------- Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes. |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30647 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Just please ask them to stop sending their cockeyed ideas over the pond. I have your purchase order right here where you clearly are asking for ideas. BTW your invoice is overdue, please remit payment ASAP. |
Nick Send message Joined: 11 Oct 11 Posts: 4344 Credit: 3,313,107 RAC: 0 |
Just please ask them to stop sending their cockeyed ideas over the pond. In keeping with current international finances please accept this IOU...and it's mortgaged back too by Mannie Fae or is that Mr-eddie Fac? Our word is our 'Bond', just as long as it hasn't got the word Government written before it? The Kite Fliers -------------------- Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes. |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24879 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
Just please ask them to stop sending their cockeyed ideas over the pond. Ah, but isn't that a sub-prime mortgage? You know, the crapola that got them into the mess in the 1st place. |
Nick Send message Joined: 11 Oct 11 Posts: 4344 Credit: 3,313,107 RAC: 0 |
Just please ask them to stop sending their cockeyed ideas over the pond. Well it's certainly not a "Sub-lime mortgage".. The Kite Fliers -------------------- Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes. |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30647 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Just please ask them to stop sending their cockeyed ideas over the pond. You will need to submit a credit default swap with that IOU. |
Sarge Send message Joined: 25 Aug 99 Posts: 12273 Credit: 8,569,109 RAC: 79 |
Clearly, it is not time, by order of House Speaker Boehner last week. |
Nick Send message Joined: 11 Oct 11 Posts: 4344 Credit: 3,313,107 RAC: 0 |
Just please ask them to stop sending their cockeyed ideas over the pond. OK, if we default we will give you Scotland... The Kite Fliers -------------------- Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes. |
dancer42 Send message Joined: 2 Jun 02 Posts: 455 Credit: 2,422,890 RAC: 1 |
last years interest on the debt was almost 1/2 trillion dollars this year will be higher if nothing fundamentally changes in about a decade the interest will be more than the entire budget then what do you cut? |
dancer42 Send message Joined: 2 Jun 02 Posts: 455 Credit: 2,422,890 RAC: 1 |
yea well they are lying to you over half and maybe as much as 2 thirds of the budget congress does not vote on the funds they are already appropriated because congress vues them as third rail votes and want to keep their seats.so they are vary limited on what they can cut and it won't be enough. and while taxing the rich sounds good and probably should be done the middle class pays the bulk of the tax's. so if they substantially raise tax's on the middle class they have not shown the ability to refrain from sending the new money and paying the bills, that is why alot of people are scared. |
©2024 University of California
SETI@home and Astropulse are funded by grants from the National Science Foundation, NASA, and donations from SETI@home volunteers. AstroPulse is funded in part by the NSF through grant AST-0307956.