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Profile Bernie Vine
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Message 1354366 - Posted: 7 Apr 2013, 10:45:17 UTC - in response to Message 1354324.  

A few days ago I supported the appointment of a young girl to be the first Youth PCC. I did so on the basis that it was an initiative that was at least worth trying. I still think that is the case, but if the allegations in this report are correct, then clearly the wrong person was given the job, and should be dismissed.

Youth PCC

Apart from a gullible Chief PCC being led up the garden path, it's the underlying inference here that is the most worrying thing of all. The girl was given the job because she convinced people that she could talk and interact with other youngsters at their own level. If they are all like her then probably we are just wasting our time anyway.


Perhaps the question should be, why did no one check her twitter or facebook account before giving her a public job. Sorry but if you have anyone in the public eye the press/media obviously try and find out all the dirt they can, it's the way they operate.
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Message 1354437 - Posted: 7 Apr 2013, 17:22:20 UTC - in response to Message 1354366.  

A few days ago I supported the appointment of a young girl to be the first Youth PCC. I did so on the basis that it was an initiative that was at least worth trying. I still think that is the case, but if the allegations in this report are correct, then clearly the wrong person was given the job, and should be dismissed.

Youth PCC

Apart from a gullible Chief PCC being led up the garden path, it's the underlying inference here that is the most worrying thing of all. The girl was given the job because she convinced people that she could talk and interact with other youngsters at their own level. If they are all like her then probably we are just wasting our time anyway.


Perhaps the question should be, why did no one check her twitter or facebook account before giving her a public job. Sorry but if you have anyone in the public eye the press/media obviously try and find out all the dirt they can, it's the way they operate.

Here in the states a lot of employers will check the social networks. And then the young folks wonder why they dont get that coveted job when they have pics of them half naked smoking a joint and saying that the boss at McDonalds sucks big time.
[/quote]

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Message 1354748 - Posted: 8 Apr 2013, 18:19:36 UTC - in response to Message 1354734.  

Baroness Thatcher dies today. For many, her philosophy was summed up in a magazine interview she gave in 1987.

"I think we have gone through a period when too many children and people have been given to understand 'I have a problem, it is the government's job to cope with it!' or 'I have a problem, I will go and get a grant to cope with it!'; 'I am homeless, the government must house me!' and so they are casting their problems on society and who is society?

"There is no such thing! There are individual men and women and there are families, and no government can do anything except through people and people look to themselves first.

"It is our duty to look after ourselves and then also to help look after our neighbour and life is a reciprocal business and people have got the entitlements too much in mind without the obligations."

Not much has changed, she was right then, she is right now. We need another Maggie.

Yes Chris, but how many peoples eyes are open to this need?...not enough of them
I'd say.


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belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.
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Message 1354770 - Posted: 8 Apr 2013, 19:40:21 UTC - in response to Message 1354761.  

She saw the benefit dependent society emerging before most of us did. Since then of course we have had the compensation culture over the pond from the USA, which has made things even worse. She got the poll tax dreadfully wrong it has to be said though. This country needs another Winnie or Thatcher, but we ain't got one. In the meantime we do the best we can, keeping Labour out, and modern Toryism in check. It's not perfect but it's the best we can do for the time being until 2015.


The trouble is, "we can't keep waiting", decisive action is required immediately
and Cameron needs to put his Maggie Knickers on and force the pace of change.

The Kite Fliers

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Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.
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Message 1354779 - Posted: 8 Apr 2013, 20:00:55 UTC

And dig her handbag out of its slumbers.

The lady may not have been for turning, but her handbag was certainly for swinging.
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Message 1354812 - Posted: 8 Apr 2013, 21:11:09 UTC

Then......

Thatcher - Life at No 10

... & now........

PCC Paris Brown investigated

2 females - one enters history books, the other? Not sure anyone will remember her in 50 years!
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Message 1354885 - Posted: 9 Apr 2013, 4:21:45 UTC - in response to Message 1354734.  

Baroness Thatcher dies today. For many, her philosophy was summed up in a magazine interview she gave in 1987.

"I think we have gone through a period when too many children and people have been given to understand 'I have a problem, it is the government's job to cope with it!' or 'I have a problem, I will go and get a grant to cope with it!'; 'I am homeless, the government must house me!' and so they are casting their problems on society and who is society?

"There is no such thing! There are individual men and women and there are families, and no government can do anything except through people and people look to themselves first.

"It is our duty to look after ourselves and then also to help look after our neighbour and life is a reciprocal business and people have got the entitlements too much in mind without the obligations."

Not much has changed, she was right then, she is right now. We need another Maggie.


She was an evil witch who destroyed the UK. I'm celebrating her death now with a glass of champagne.

Ding Dong the witch is dead!
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Message 1354978 - Posted: 9 Apr 2013, 11:21:53 UTC - in response to Message 1354885.  

Baroness Thatcher dies today. For many, her philosophy was summed up in a magazine interview she gave in 1987.

"I think we have gone through a period when too many children and people have been given to understand 'I have a problem, it is the government's job to cope with it!' or 'I have a problem, I will go and get a grant to cope with it!'; 'I am homeless, the government must house me!' and so they are casting their problems on society and who is society?

"There is no such thing! There are individual men and women and there are families, and no government can do anything except through people and people look to themselves first.

"It is our duty to look after ourselves and then also to help look after our neighbour and life is a reciprocal business and people have got the entitlements too much in mind without the obligations."

Not much has changed, she was right then, she is right now. We need another Maggie.


She was an evil witch who destroyed the UK. I'm celebrating her death now with a glass of champagne.

Ding Dong the witch is dead!

I don't believe a word in what you have written here, Es'...


The Kite Fliers

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Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.
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Message 1354986 - Posted: 9 Apr 2013, 11:57:15 UTC

Late edit - I just returned from the shop intending to buy a Torygraph, but god help me I bought a Mail instead. Unusually for them they have devoted 50% of the paper to her remembrance with a 16 page special pull out, and I have to say it is excellent. They and MP's are calling for a State funeral as was given to Winston Churchill. I'm 50/50 on that.

Since a state funeral was what she did not want then no. Maggie was only too
aware that to put UK right meant some would have to suffer the consequences from
it. More suffered so because previous governments failed to address the problems
within the UK so exacerbating the pain to come. They dithered whilst the UK burnt
and only Maggie had the foresight and courage to put this fire out. No more than
10 years later Labour comes along and starts to set the touch-paper alight again.
At least now we have a government aware that a fire is growing again, just not
so sure though that they are brave enough to face the heat when attempting to
put this fire out.

As the old saying goes, "If you can't stand the heat, then get out of the kitchen"
The kitchen is normally the woman's domain, clearly then why Maggie could stand
the heat coming via the hard decisions she had to impose as P.M. I wonder if
Cameron has enough kitchen experience to be able to handle the heat today?...
...I wonder if he has even ever donned a pair of oven gloves in his life?


The Kite Fliers

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Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.
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Message 1354987 - Posted: 9 Apr 2013, 12:04:01 UTC

She was an evil witch who destroyed the UK. I'm celebrating her death now with a glass of champagne.

Ding Dong the witch is dead!

So Chris, you consider the above reply to be intellectual then....strange
company you keep?

The Kite Fliers

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Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.
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Message 1354990 - Posted: 9 Apr 2013, 12:17:50 UTC - in response to Message 1354987.  

Thatcherism was a national catastrophe that still poisons us

Also, speaking of the company people keep, check out some of the unsavoury characters that Thatcher hung around with.

If you need a list I will supply one later on.
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Message 1354994 - Posted: 9 Apr 2013, 12:33:02 UTC - in response to Message 1354990.  

Thatcherism was a national catastrophe that still poisons us

Also, speaking of the company people keep, check out some of the unsavoury characters that Thatcher hung around with.

If you need a list I will supply one later on.

Thank you Hev, but no, I don't actually require a list - from you.



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Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.
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Message 1355002 - Posted: 9 Apr 2013, 13:19:09 UTC - in response to Message 1355000.  

[quote]Without the single-mindedness she showed – whether for sound monetary policy or popular capitalism (marketing shares in utilities to first-time investors), or selling off council houses, or, after 1988, combating climate change – she would not have been able to achieve what she did. But there were times when her refusal to compromise at all, made her political life harder than it might have been and eventually proved her undoing.

Namely over the Poll Tax and Europe. With the Poll Tax then the principle behind
it was sound but the application totally non-nonsensical. Over Europe then in
hindsight most would have to agree she was right in the end. Still, most
politicians including Prime Ministers finally meet their Waterloo's especially if
they stay around long enough.


The Kite Fliers

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Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
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Message 1355003 - Posted: 9 Apr 2013, 13:20:30 UTC - in response to Message 1354990.  

Thatcherism was a national catastrophe that still poisons us

Also, speaking of the company people keep, check out some of the unsavoury characters that Thatcher hung around with.

If you need a list I will supply one later on.


Hmmn, lets see.......Just how did she manage to win in 1979? Was it because Jim Callaghan had to go cap in hand to the IMF? Was it the constant strikes by power mad union chiefs where closed shops ruled the day? Rubbish piling up in the streets, bodies piling up in mortuaries.

Public service motto up to 1979 "Strike - Strike - Strike"

But one comment sticks out like a sore thumb & surprised that the BHL's never noticed it(more than likely, bypassed it).....

"perspective is always good, Thatcher got elected because the country was in economic free-fall and the lights were going out 3 days a week. Never for one second since Thatcher has the electable Left suggested we return to pre-Thatcher industry. Post Thatcher, Tony's cronies, illegal wars, massive immigration forced on a population that didn't want it and financial meltdown. Given the alternative was she so bad."
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Message 1355007 - Posted: 9 Apr 2013, 13:36:27 UTC

Hmmn, lets see.......Just how did she manage to win in 1979? Was it because Jim Callaghan had to go cap in hand to the IMF? Was it the constant strikes by power mad union chiefs where closed shops ruled the day? Rubbish piling up in the streets, bodies piling up in mortuaries.

Public service motto up to 1979 "Strike - Strike - Strike"

But one comment sticks out like a sore thumb & surprised that the BHL's never noticed it(more than likely, bypassed it).....

"perspective is always good, Thatcher got elected because the country was in economic free-fall and the lights were going out 3 days a week. Never for one second since Thatcher has the electable Left suggested we return to pre-Thatcher industry. Post Thatcher, Tony's cronies, illegal wars, massive immigration forced on a population that didn't want it and financial meltdown. Given the alternative was she so bad."

____________
Well Sirius, we know the truth because we lived through these times, before
and after. So no ones going to get away with trying to pull the wool over our
eyes on this issue. After Maggie left office the whole political system went
back to it's old ways again. They all failed to grab the mantle that Maggie
left behind because none of them were strong enough of mind to know what to do
with it let along know how to use it.

The Kite Fliers

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Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.
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Message 1355029 - Posted: 9 Apr 2013, 14:42:31 UTC

I don't feel one way or another about Margret Thatcher she did her job the way she thought was best. RIP

However if you hated someone and what they stood for when they were alive, it would be two faced not to say what you felt.

I am very uncomfortable when I see people who did not have a good word for her when she was alive saying nice things about her now she is dead. Either say what you feel or don't spout platitudes. She was not universally liked when alive but seems to be revered in death.

We are strange.


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Message 1355037 - Posted: 9 Apr 2013, 15:11:21 UTC - in response to Message 1355036.  

Youth PCC stands down

Her position was just simply untenable.



"She added: "I accept that I have made comments on social networking sites which have offended many people. I am really sorry for any offence caused."

This is what really P's me off...... Apologising after the fact..... She had the intelligence to write them in the 1st place, also had the choice to do drugs & now that it's come back to bite her ass, she apologises?

Totally laughable.
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Message 1355044 - Posted: 9 Apr 2013, 15:26:46 UTC

Regardless of what friends or enemies say of her, the one issue that can never be taken away from her is the fact that she treated "the Sick Man of Europe" well enough that he recovered.

Just a shame that those who came after didn't grasp the reins & continue the ride.
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Message 1355063 - Posted: 9 Apr 2013, 16:09:07 UTC

The posts ES and Hev made, as others said, are not unexpected. Whether one agrees with them that Maggie Thatcher's legacy still poisons the UK or not, it will not last longer than the poisons, both financial and social, the Labour movement has imposed on the current and future generations of UK citizens. Twice they the have made the UK virtually bankrupt - 1978/1979 and again in 2007/2008.

It has been argued that the relaxed Banking system was started by Thatcher's government and lead to the toxic decisions by Banks. But Labour, in power from 1997 to 2010 did nothing, so it is again down to the Labour movement.

As to social effects, the curbing of Union power, particularly that rabid NUM leader Arthur Scargill, lead to the loss of the UK coal industry. Their leaders were too dim to see what was happening, and just mindful of their one and only objective to destroy the then democratically elected government.

I do not think we should make allowances for Scargill and other NUM leader stupidity. Perhaps they should enter for this year's Darwin Awards?
It's good to be back amongst friends and colleagues



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Message 1355067 - Posted: 9 Apr 2013, 16:26:53 UTC - in response to Message 1355041.  

I am very uncomfortable when I see people who did not have a good word for her when she was alive saying nice things about her now she is dead. Either say what you feel or don't spout platitudes. She was not universally liked when alive but seems to be revered in death.

As I said before

It is a time honoured tradition in international affairs and politics to praise senior leaders upon their death, as much as for the significance of their position as for their achievements within it. It's like the resignation letters and responses from No.10. The PM will pay glorious tribute to a departing Minister praising their achievements, whist probably privately thinking, thank god they've gone!

It is also a mark of respect to the deceased's family who will be genuinely grieving. No we are not strange, we just observe the niceties of a civilised society.



Yes people who actually liked and admired her, can and should say what they feel, but in respect of her grieving family all others should shut up.
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