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What did God do before creation?
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Sarge Send message Joined: 25 Aug 99 Posts: 11491 Credit: 7,447,299 RAC: 3,899 
I would, but both are accepted conventions and, short of embedding a pic or maybe ... maybe looking up an arcane bbcode, the ellipsis is preferable, 
Sarge Send message Joined: 25 Aug 99 Posts: 11491 Credit: 7,447,299 RAC: 3,899 
No, betreger, nothing has changed, but William wants to bring in another, currently nonstandard view, the hyperreals. From the standard view, the equalities Bobby and I state ae correct. And if Chris does not want to answer, I'll wait precisely 0 seconds before giving bobby my version of the answer. :) 
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 25509 Credit: 49,372,758 RAC: 21,242 
There are those here who do not believe that: (infinity) * 1 / (infinity) = 1 is a true statement. This because an application of the associative and communicative laws results in: {1 / (infinity)} + {1 / (infinity)} + {1 / (infinity)} {repeated (infinity) times} = 1 If they were to believe that, then any positive probability for the universe and given an infinity of time results in certainty that the universe arose from random chance. Of course in Algebra we are taught that: A * 1/A = 1. There is no special magic by replacing A by (infinity). So in answer to the question: What did God do before creation? He waited for the right random number sequence? He rigged it so we can't answer the question? He created himself with time? There is no satisfactory answer to the question. 
bobby "snowflake" Send message Joined: 22 Mar 02 Posts: 2866 Credit: 17,563,222 RAC: 1,071 
There are those here who do not believe that: With A=0 the equation falls down. I suspect that the mathematicians here can show why the same is true with A=(infinity). I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ... 
Horacio Send message Joined: 14 Jan 00 Posts: 536 Credit: 75,967,266 RAC: 0 
There are those here who do not believe that: I dont believe it because I know that infinity/infinity its not equal to 1. It happens that Infinity its not necessarily equal to infinity. (there are infinite points in a line, there are infinite points in a plane, and its not hard to see that there should be more points in a plane than in a line... thats because the number of points in the plane is an infinite of a higher order of magnitude than the number of points in the line (and my wording its not fully right as there are no such thing as the "number of points in a line" because the set of points that belongs to a line is a not an enumerable set). infinity / infinity, 0 * infinity, 1/0, 0/0 and 1/infinity are undeterminated values and the result of such operations can only be solved using limits and knowing the function that gives the "infinity" or "zero" value. You can say that the limit when n tends to infinity of n/n is equal to 1 But, the limit when n tends to infinity of n/n^2 (which is also infinity/infinity) equals 0... Take out the magic word "limit" and you will get that 0 = infinity/infinity = 1 => 0=1!! Avada Kedabra! (I just hope that all this makes sense in english... Ive learned maths in spanish, and learned english mostly reading things on internet, so its highly probable that Im not using the right "technical" words...) 
Sarge Send message Joined: 25 Aug 99 Posts: 11491 Credit: 7,447,299 RAC: 3,899 
There are those here who do not believe that: c^2 = c. If you want something larger than c, you need the cardinality of the power set of the reals, for example. 
Gone with the wind Send message Joined: 19 Nov 00 Posts: 41576 Credit: 41,973,031 RAC: 34 
My question about the equality or otherwise of 1/3 and 0.333333.... was to William Rothamel, I'll wait for his answer. Oooh me espies a chink in the mighty ones armour :) 1  0.99999 recurring is 0.00001 with the last zero recurring, I would have thought. And even if it isn't, what does it matter in the scheme of things. In terms of God and maths, we all know the answer is 42 anyway. Always got time to chat to you Bobby, everyone needs their litle bit of amusement for the day. 
bobby "snowflake" Send message Joined: 22 Mar 02 Posts: 2866 Credit: 17,563,222 RAC: 1,071 
My question about the equality or otherwise of 1/3 and 0.333333.... was to William Rothamel, I'll wait for his answer. Solve for x, 10x  x = 9. I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ... 
Gone with the wind Send message Joined: 19 Nov 00 Posts: 41576 Credit: 41,973,031 RAC: 34 

Nick Send message Joined: 11 Oct 11 Posts: 4344 Credit: 3,313,107 RAC: 0 
ROFL... The Kite Fliers  Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites"  as the saying goes. 
bobby "snowflake" Send message Joined: 22 Mar 02 Posts: 2866 Credit: 17,563,222 RAC: 1,071 
Very amusing, was 10x  x = 9 so difficult? 10x  x = 9 => x(10  1) = 9 => 9x = 9 => 9x/9 = 9/9 => x = 1 agreed? Now let's try substituting 0.999999... for x and see what happens: (10 x 0.999999...)  0.999999... = ? 10 x 0.999999... = 9.999999... x = 1  x = 0.999999... 10x  9.999999...  x   0.999999... = 9  = 9.000000... oh dear, if x = 0.999999..., then 10x  x = 9, though we just showed that when 10x  x = 9 is solved for x, x is 1, thus 0.999999... = 1, so 1  0.999999... = 0, just like Sarge hinted at. Where was that chink? I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ... 
Sarge Send message Joined: 25 Aug 99 Posts: 11491 Credit: 7,447,299 RAC: 3,899 
1  0.999999... = 0, just like Sarge hinted at. Indeed. 
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 20964 Credit: 2,905,803 RAC: 654 
What was god doing before the creation? Laying down the groundwork for Maths, so that once the creation was finished, the "many" can be bamboozled by the "few". 
Sarge Send message Joined: 25 Aug 99 Posts: 11491 Credit: 7,447,299 RAC: 3,899 
What was god doing before the creation? Laying down the groundwork for Maths, so that once the creation was finished, the "many" can be bamboozled by the "few". No bamboozling. 
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 20964 Credit: 2,905,803 RAC: 654 
What was god doing before the creation? Laying down the groundwork for Maths, so that once the creation was finished, the "many" can be bamboozled by the "few". Yep, definitely bamboozling. 
celttooth Send message Joined: 21 Nov 99 Posts: 26503 Credit: 28,583,098 RAC: 0 
Anyone who believes in God knows that it has a wonderful since of humour. My question is: “What’s to argue about?” 
Lynn Send message Joined: 20 Nov 00 Posts: 13497 Credit: 63,174,074 RAC: 80,842 
What did God do before creation? We will never find out, in this lifetime. 
rob smith Send message Joined: 7 Mar 03 Posts: 17719 Credit: 402,766,572 RAC: 154,802 
Lynn +1 (we may however engage our minds a game of fruitless conjecture....) Bob Smith Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society) Somewhere in the (un)known Universe? 
Gone with the wind Send message Joined: 19 Nov 00 Posts: 41576 Credit: 41,973,031 RAC: 34 
He covered the chink up again when I wasn't looking! Of course the original equation solve for x, 10x  x = 9, has an answer of x=1, I did that in my head in 3 seconds. I didn't answer as I thought you were being facetious. As to the second bit, I'm trying to figure out why APPARENTLY 0.99999.... =1 when it shouldn't do. I can only guess that it flouts some mathematical rule about dealing with infinity numbers. I'm trying to recall whether you could ever catch that bus by travelling 1/2 way towards it all the time, in theory you never would, it may be something similar. Interesting though. 
bobby "snowflake" Send message Joined: 22 Mar 02 Posts: 2866 Credit: 17,563,222 RAC: 1,071 
He covered the chink up again when I wasn't looking! Of course the original equation solve for x, 10x  x = 9, has an answer of x=1, I did that in my head in 3 seconds. I didn't answer as I thought you were being facetious. As to the second bit, I'm trying to figure out why APPARENTLY 0.99999.... =1 when it shouldn't do. I can only guess that it flouts some mathematical rule about dealing with infinity numbers. I'm trying to recall whether you could ever catch that bus by travelling 1/2 way towards it all the time, in theory you never would, it may be something similar. 0.999999... = 1 does not flout any rule in math that I (or, it seems, Sarge, a math teacher and wikipedia) know about. There was no facetiousness on my part, if you had provided a value for x my next question would have been to ask you to use 0.999999... instead of x on the left hand side and see if the result was different. Similar equations (10x  x = 3) can be used show that 1/3 = 0.333333... and (10x  x = 1) 1/9 = 0.111111... The wikipedia page provides a number of other mathematical proofs for the equality of 0.999999... and 1. Your bus example demonstrates a difference between the physical world and the world of math, in math recurring division can carry on to infinity, in the physical world, there is a minimum length (Planck length). I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ... 
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