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Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
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Message 1366761 - Posted: 11 May 2013, 15:07:35 UTC - in response to Message 1366733.  

Double the quote as now you will need permits and likely will be a sub to whoever is doing the fire restoration work.

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Message 1366763 - Posted: 11 May 2013, 15:16:25 UTC - in response to Message 1366761.  
Last modified: 11 May 2013, 15:17:57 UTC

Sorry Gary, should've stated - the fire damaged office has already been dealt with & authorised by the Insurance Company. That's not my job.

This July, its been 3 years since I told him what's required & how to go about it. The problem is that instead of getting us to do it, he went with a "so-called" professional who's ripped him off for £5k & at the same time, didn't do his job properly.

The main issue here is that both cabinets with the switches ARE NOT labelled so you can imagine the issue regarding the jack sockets!

What I am finding it hard to understand is that the guy is a multi-millionaire who is forking out cash on un-necessary items yet fails to secure his business properly.

At the moment, I'm thinking of walking away, however that will impact my business! I have had numerous referrals from them which have turned out to be decent contracts. Without seeming racist, they are all of the same persuasion if you catch my drift.

A veritable catch 22 for me!
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Message 1366775 - Posted: 11 May 2013, 15:45:23 UTC

It seems you are haveing a moral dilema. However as long as you keep telling him what he needs, And he disregards it. Then you should not feel guilty for taking his money. He must like your work if he is giving refferals. So stay the course.

How did the home owners with the wonky electric power make out?
[/quote]

Old James
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Message 1366778 - Posted: 11 May 2013, 15:55:06 UTC - in response to Message 1366775.  

I was working on her sister's system on Wednesday when she popped in, so I asked her.

She hasn't contacted the electrician I recommended, so there's not much more I can do. However, I will continue to remind her for the simple fact is that the extended family totals 63 so far & all of them are my customers.

As for staying the course, I understand what you're saying James, but having those switches labelled up will enable us to determine which jacks are not active so we can track down as to why not. My suspicion is that they haven't been punched down properly, but there is no way of knowing until we're allowed to label them up.

It would also make the constant printer issues easier to handle for all the lawyers working there...should one go down, just pick another as I would network them all as they are network printers which currently, are all connected via USB.
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Message 1366870 - Posted: 11 May 2013, 20:22:25 UTC

Well, just tell him they have to be labeled, bring a ptouch or dymo and put the buzzer on them, trace the wires and bill him hourly.

Don't know about there, but here codes essentially require labels (in commercial work). So no dang fool idiot mixes up a data line with a power line, not that anyone with a measurable IQ would but ...


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Message 1366877 - Posted: 11 May 2013, 21:10:22 UTC - in response to Message 1366870.  
Last modified: 11 May 2013, 21:25:50 UTC

Well, just tell him they have to be labeled, bring a ptouch or dymo and put the buzzer on them, trace the wires and bill him hourly.

Don't know about there, but here codes essentially require labels (in commercial work). So no dang fool idiot mixes up a data line with a power line, not that anyone with a measurable IQ would but ...



Sorry Gary, my apologies. There is no issue with the phone jacks or their switches. The problem is the data jacks. There are 2x24 port gigabit switches, 1 on ground floor & 1 on 1st floor.

As it currently stands no one can determine which cable from the cable loom is connected to which jack - also, which cable from loom to switch.

As BT connected the phone switches & connected the jacks which they decently labelled, I'm surprised that the professional that wired up the data jacks didn't do the same.

As it's going to be several weeks until the accounts office is renovated to its former state, the business is strapped for RJ45 connections (boss has moaned numerous times that his wireless connection on his laptop is dead slow) & has 6 computers accessing via wireless, not to mention all the staff's Iphones, Ipads & other tablets.

As James has said, a moral dilemma! I want to walk away, but the "jungle telegrah" is faster than the fastest internet connection & I'll lose a lot of business if I do.

Screwed if I do, screwed if I don't :)

Edit: I agree with you on labelling - I already own a Brother ptouch 1080 & purchased it for this type of work. In fact, already used on several other business clients & they've appreciated it. It really is nice & tidy.

Ptouch'ed

Edit 2: Chris hit the nail squarely on the head, & putting it mildly!
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Message 1366941 - Posted: 11 May 2013, 23:57:05 UTC

Sounds like with the referrals involved, you pretty much have to do what you have to do to try to remain in their good graces.

Might be a little painful, but it seems that would serve you best in the long haul.
"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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Message 1366945 - Posted: 12 May 2013, 0:08:18 UTC - in response to Message 1366941.  

True, but its damned frustrating knowing that every time I go to deal with the same issues time & time again, it can be resolved PDQ.

I am hoping that the conversation on Friday will go some ways to rectify that.

They are aware that I've gone back to being an Agency driver & with the Germany trip coming up soon, I'm hoping that they need my services pdq - boy am I going to be chuckling so hard I'm hoping the German Police don't think I'm off my rocker!
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Message 1366961 - Posted: 12 May 2013, 0:44:59 UTC - in response to Message 1366877.  

Sirius, I didn't specify what jack because all are supposed to be labeled. I don't presume that the telco and wan are even in the same conduit although they may be. But you can't pull a power wire through a data conduit which is why code here requires labels. Perhaps the telco label meet that code requirement if the cables are in the same conduit.

You would use http://www.professionalequipment.com/wire-tracer/ to tell you which is which. Energize the office end and find it in the switch room. Print two labels and every visit you will thank yourself. Obviously this goes faster if you have two guys and waklie-talkie's

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Message 1366967 - Posted: 12 May 2013, 1:03:02 UTC - in response to Message 1366961.  

Sirius, I didn't specify what jack because all are supposed to be labeled. I don't presume that the telco and wan are even in the same conduit although they may be. But you can't pull a power wire through a data conduit which is why code here requires labels. Perhaps the telco label meet that code requirement if the cables are in the same conduit.

You would use http://www.professionalequipment.com/wire-tracer/ to tell you which is which. Energize the office end and find it in the switch room. Print two labels and every visit you will thank yourself. Obviously this goes faster if you have two guys and waklie-talkie's


Sorry again Gary. The jacks are similar to RJ11 & RJ45 Wall Plate

The RJ11 sockets are labelled throughout the building, but the RJ45's are not.

Thanks for the link, however, no need to purchase one, will use brother's. No need for walkie talkies either, mobiles will do using Skype.

Like Chris, you've hit the nail on the head! It will take 2 men unfortunately, it is expected of me to do the job alone.
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Message 1366980 - Posted: 12 May 2013, 3:44:45 UTC - in response to Message 1366967.  
Last modified: 12 May 2013, 4:06:49 UTC

No need for walkie talkies either, mobiles will do using Skype.

Until you pull the the connection to the outside world and your wi-fi drops.

<ed>
As to the plate with the jacks, doesn't matter if they are RJ-11, RJ-45 or some coax, single, double, triple or more, every single one needs to have a label. You are likely to find some that don't have a cable pulled, and some where there is a short or a break.

Worked in a place with two 24 port switches and a 20 line digital PBX that wasn't properly labeled when we moved in. Couple guys and a weekend put labels on everything. Most of the offices has two data lines and a phone line but there were a couple of bigger ones with 4 data and 2 phone. Of course we had a single workstation with 5 network computers (3 Mac, 2 PC) and two local network color laser printers. Of course the whole shebang had to talk to the remote office via the public internet as well.

Oh, you may find you will either need local switches to get all the printers and computers in an office on the cable, or have to pull a bunch more and change the plate to a six banger. Also don't be surprosed if the cable in the wall isn't Cat 5e or 6 but Cat 3 telco only.
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Message 1367090 - Posted: 12 May 2013, 12:19:11 UTC - in response to Message 1366980.  

No offence Gary, but find your post confusing.

Pulled connection? Our mobiles won't be connected to the network, they have their own net connection.

Jacks are all connected & yes, they do need labelling. So, yes, it could be that they may be shorted out/broken or just not punched down sufficiently.

Local switches for printers? maybe on a medium sized or larger business, but not in this case. 8 employees & boss with 5 desktops, 6 laptops, 9 printers, 1 NAS spread between 5 rooms on 2 floors.

So, taking into account the uplink to 2nd switch & router, with leaving 1 port free for a 3rd switch should it be needed, that's 24 ports in total leaving 24 free.
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Message 1367174 - Posted: 12 May 2013, 15:36:44 UTC - in response to Message 1367090.  
Last modified: 12 May 2013, 15:37:25 UTC

No offence Gary, but find your post confusing.

Pulled connection? Our mobiles won't be connected to the network, they have their own net connection.

Didn't know if you were going to use the office Wi-fi for your skype or if you were planning on using telco. Just reminding you, you might upset the office Wi-fi in doing the work and not to rely on it. Sounds like you have that covered.

Jacks are all connected

So at some point you have been behind all the plates already, didn't know that
& yes, they do need labelling. So, yes, it could be that they may be shorted out/broken or just not punched down sufficiently.

Local switches for printers? maybe on a medium sized or larger business, but not in this case. 8 employees & boss with 5 desktops, 6 laptops, 9 printers, 1 NAS spread between 5 rooms on 2 floors.

Future expansion plans? Or are they already shoe horned in with no possibility of growth?

So, taking into account the uplink to 2nd switch & router, with leaving 1 port free for a 3rd switch should it be needed, that's 24 ports in total leaving 24 free.

2 routers?! That's an RX for disaster, unless their factory defaults are for different subnets. Reason being someone will press reset on the device [part of the trouble shooting script from the ISP] and if they aren't default to different subnets you end up with two DHCP servers giving out the same IP to two different devices and that is disaster.

My personal disaster story on that is we had config'd the ISP supplied box as a bridge and all was fine. Then they pushed a software update onto the box through a backdoor. When it rebooted default turned the DHCP on. Took a few days for devices to need to renew leases. Nasty, nasty.
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Message 1367194 - Posted: 12 May 2013, 16:30:43 UTC - in response to Message 1367174.  

Oops, sorry Gary. To clarify...

5 desktops, 6 laptops,9 printers, 1x NAS. 2x data switches, & 1x router. So that's 21 devices, 2x uplink ports (1 free for future expansion if req) & router = 24 ports. For the size of the building & office space, can't really see the business expanding beyond 48 ports.

If that does become a requirement, he will have to move again (current building is 1st move due to expansion).

No problem with the reminder, as the more one moves into networking, the simple things often get overlooked.

As for the plates, finally got the opportunity to fully check them while the boss was with the insurance assessor. They are all wired up, so like you said, short/break/not punched or not connected to either switch or patch panel & are the only issues that I can think of.

Just finished working out how long it will take us & allowing for any unexpected hiccups, it shouldn't take us more than 36 hours.

I'm going to enjoy the look on his face when I give him the quote tomorrow. Had he done what I suggested from day one, he would have saved himself £3,000.
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Message 1367196 - Posted: 12 May 2013, 16:35:44 UTC - in response to Message 1367194.  

Hope you get the green light on the project and wish you the best in getting it all sorted.
"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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Message 1367219 - Posted: 12 May 2013, 17:26:34 UTC - in response to Message 1367201.  

Already have which is why he asked for a quote on Friday. The main problem here is that I've told him to take the guy that did the job to task as he failed to do what he was paid for.

Unfortunately, they cannot contact him. I wonder why?

@Mark, already got the green light, but there is, shall I say a highly volatile issue involved, & being a law firm I'm not stating that anywhere - that's between me & him, & he knows the answer, but getting him to go-ahead is now the issue.

Fortunately for me anyway, the firebombing on Monday pushes the issue in my favour.

As I've already stated, I really want to walk away from this, but......
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Message 1367253 - Posted: 12 May 2013, 19:16:10 UTC
Last modified: 12 May 2013, 19:26:57 UTC

If they have a conference room make sure it has some extra jacks. Never know when a client team will all need to plug in. Speaking of which they might want them on a separate sub-net so they don't have file share access to the rest of the firms computers.

<ed>Total number of ports in the switch room is rarely the issue. You can daisy chain those until the cows come home. You will run out of electric and A/C in the closet first.

I see you said he has NAS. Is he doing automated offsite backup? The firebombing should really get his attention on that.

It sounds like the fire was more cosmetic than disaster level. Wasn't sure, but at first I was thinking that walls may have been open. That is one of the rare times you can get access to put in conduit for expansion.
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Message 1367254 - Posted: 12 May 2013, 19:20:16 UTC - in response to Message 1367253.  

That'll probably happen on the next expansion as the current building is not that large.
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Message 1367523 - Posted: 13 May 2013, 16:15:45 UTC - in response to Message 1367253.  

If they have a conference room make sure it has some extra jacks. Never know when a client team will all need to plug in. Speaking of which they might want them on a separate sub-net so they don't have file share access to the rest of the firms computers.

<ed>Total number of ports in the switch room is rarely the issue. You can daisy chain those until the cows come home. You will run out of electric and A/C in the closet first.

I see you said he has NAS. Is he doing automated offsite backup? The firebombing should really get his attention on that.

It sounds like the fire was more cosmetic than disaster level. Wasn't sure, but at first I was thinking that walls may have been open. That is one of the rare times you can get access to put in conduit for expansion.


Yes, the NAS is his Legal Database Backup, unfortunately, its onsite. Even though you raised very valid points, I've given up on informing him of the insecurity of his office/network as he doesn't listen.

Maybe the firebombing woke him up - Personally, I very much doubt it as he won't spend the money.

Quote's gone in which his reply to was "ouch".
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Message 1367533 - Posted: 13 May 2013, 16:21:39 UTC

Samsung's breakthrough

Nice, but too late for me, I'll be retired when that's mainstream.

However, more worrying is this: -

Pilotless Aircraft trialled in UK

UK Airspace is crowded enough as it is, how long before an unmanned aircraft loses its ground control & crashes in a densely populated area?
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