Another American Massacre

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Message 1317099 - Posted: 19 Dec 2012, 13:18:34 UTC - in response to Message 1316983.  
Last modified: 19 Dec 2012, 13:20:01 UTC

Adolph Hitler

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.

There is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever debate was in progress.

Yep, ID has lost his guns. ATF can pick them up in the morning.




Ya, Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Pol Pot, Barry Obama and the left-Socialist, all give great speech and want your guns for a reason. If you forget your history your bound to be ignorant and repeat the same stupid mistakes.

You MEAN---won the debate.
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Message 1317133 - Posted: 19 Dec 2012, 14:59:34 UTC - in response to Message 1317063.  

In the early 1990's the Government introduced its "Care in the Community" Scheme based upon the premise that, mildly mentally ill people would have a better quality of life by being integrated into the local community rather than being segregated in day centres. Many were closed down and it was seen as also a cost cutting measure. We then saw people walking around in the streets talking to themselves. There was one old man that used to beg passers by for 10p for a cup of tea, and as soon as he had collected enough he bought a bottle of cider from the corner shop and went and got drunk in the local park.

In our town was a large partly residential day centre and treatment annexe of a South London mental Hospital, it closed in the 90's and became a housing estate, but does now include a smaller day centre and short-term care home for people with learning difficulties, run by a national charity. They seem to have learned the lesson that you can't chuck mildly mentally ill people on the streets, and expect them to keep out of trouble. Thank god we have the gun laws we do.

Soft is right about the types of gun that are available to firearm collectors, and whether they should be needed by civilians. The news coming in today is that the President is going to ban or restrict assault weapons, but that still leaves hand guns and hunting rifles. What is it about the American male that makes them love to fire bullets at things? And you're not considered a man unless you've killed a deer each year. Ex service people trained for years to use guns might have some difficulty in switching off, but I don't understand the rest of it.

If America firmly believes that they need to arm their policemen, and the public need to be allowed to carry guns to protect themselves, then isn't there something wrong with that society in the first place? This constitutional right seems like a smokescreen.





The hunters I know who kill a deer also eat that same deer. Along with other game animals they hunt. The food they put in the freezer helps them make ends meet. Why do you consider that Macho?

I resent the fact that you all lump gun owners as evil. Im just as law abiding as any of you.
[/quote]

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Message 1317142 - Posted: 19 Dec 2012, 15:39:46 UTC - in response to Message 1317133.  
Last modified: 19 Dec 2012, 15:53:18 UTC


The hunters I know who kill a deer also eat that same deer. Along with other game animals they hunt. The food they put in the freezer helps them make ends meet. Why do you consider that Macho?

I resent the fact that you all lump gun owners as evil. Im just as law abiding as any of you.

I bet the hunters you know don't use AK-47s to kill those deer.
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Message 1317143 - Posted: 19 Dec 2012, 15:41:59 UTC - in response to Message 1317063.  

In the early 1990's the Government introduced its "Care in the Community" Scheme based upon the premise that, mildly mentally ill people would have a better quality of life by being integrated into the local community rather than being segregated in day centres. Many were closed down and it was seen as also a cost cutting measure.

...

Before certain people go on about "bleeding heart liberals" it is worth pointing out that this was done by a right wing government against the express concerns of the "bleeding heart liberals".

Quite a few people died as a consequence.
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Message 1317146 - Posted: 19 Dec 2012, 15:51:00 UTC - in response to Message 1317143.  

Well, I don't have much time for "BHL's", but fortunately in this case, they don't come into the picture.

My view is that "No civilian should own weapons" - You want to handle & use them, join your country's armed forces!
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Message 1317160 - Posted: 19 Dec 2012, 16:13:56 UTC

James, I think you have misunderstood me. No offence was intended.

The hunters I know who kill a deer also eat that same deer. Along with other game animals they hunt. The food they put in the freezer helps them make ends meet. Why do you consider that Macho?

Killing a deer for food is acceptable to me. Man has been doing that with animals for most of his history. It is just that killing animals for sport, or simply for the fun of it, is not acceptable to me. There is a big difference.

I resent the fact that you all lump gun owners as evil. Im just as law abiding as any of you.

I have not said, nor intimated, that all gun owners are evil or not law abiding. I have simply queried this macho psyche that seems to make most American males want to shoot things. I haven't noticed it in other countries. OK, the UK has the Grouse shooting season, and stag hunting in Scotland, plus fox hunting in England, all of which I disagree with. But it is a small minority of the population that indulge in those pursuits.

We have the NRA in the UK, and the Bisley range in Surrey, which is internationally famous, and has hosted Olympic and Commonwealth Games championships. NRA - UK What we don't have here is a culture of taking pot shots at anything that moves, like it seems the USA does. Rightly or wrongly, that is how it comes across to us. If I'm wrong, them I'm happy to be corrected. I can't help your countries PR!



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Message 1317173 - Posted: 19 Dec 2012, 16:53:00 UTC - in response to Message 1317146.  

Well, I don't have much time for "BHL's", but fortunately in this case, they don't come into the picture.

My view is that "No civilian should own weapons" - You want to handle & use them, join your country's armed forces!

Right....
Count on a government conscripted armed militia to protect the citizens from wrongdoing by that same government.
That's gonna work.
"Learn from yesterday. Live for today. Hope for tomorrow." Albert Einstein
"With cats." kittyman

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Message 1317180 - Posted: 19 Dec 2012, 17:01:02 UTC - in response to Message 1317142.  


The hunters I know who kill a deer also eat that same deer. Along with other game animals they hunt. The food they put in the freezer helps them make ends meet. Why do you consider that Macho?

I resent the fact that you all lump gun owners as evil. Im just as law abiding as any of you.

I bet the hunters you know don't use AK-47s to kill those deer.

Not AK 47s But I know one who hunts with an AR sporter with an upper reciever chamberd for 7.62 NATO with the mandated 5 round magazine.

I dont know where you people get your info. There is no state any where in the US that I know that allows you to hunt with a 30 round magazine.
[/quote]

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Message 1317183 - Posted: 19 Dec 2012, 17:07:18 UTC

There is no state any where in the US that I know that allows you to hunt with a 30 round magazine.

Well Soft seemed to think so. But can you see why those outside the USA are possibly getting the wrong end of the stick. The truth is that the USA does have a gun culture, and we in the UK do not. Therefore, we will have different viewpoints.

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Message 1317190 - Posted: 19 Dec 2012, 17:18:45 UTC - in response to Message 1317146.  

Well, I don't have much time for "BHL's", but fortunately in this case, they don't come into the picture.

My view is that "No civilian should own weapons" - You want to handle & use them, join your country's armed forces!

Couldn't agree more. I think the 2 months of basic that new recruits go through drills into their head how dangerous their weapon is. It's called a weapon for a reason.

I can't think of any place that requires intense training to know, understand, and show how to properly use a weapon than any branch of military service.

I don't like guns(weapons). Never have. Never wanted one. I always quailfied as Expert when needed on my M16 and my M2 Machine Gun. I knew how to strip both weapons to their bare parts. I was 1 of 2 people allowed to do this in my unit. Why? Because our Squadron Armorer trained me to do it.

I don't think any civilian could ever be qualified to own or use Assault weapons without weeks of intense personal hands on training. These weapons are no joke but buying them is. Its a shame we don't take safety first as a rule.

Instead we get the NRA going "Awwww don't blame the gun, blame the user." BS IF he didn't have the weapon he certainly wouldn't have done that kind of damage.
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Message 1317201 - Posted: 19 Dec 2012, 17:27:02 UTC

Im all for getting the guns away from the loonies and the drug gangs. for the loonies open up the medical records so if they try and buy a gun it flags them.
As far as the drug gangs. the cops know who they are bust them and send them to prison.
[/quote]

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Message 1317217 - Posted: 19 Dec 2012, 17:46:58 UTC - in response to Message 1317201.  

the nut that did the recent shooting was turned away from a gun sale. He didn't own the weapons they were his mothers.

Can't blame the dead owner? The problem is the so called legal owners that think having a weapon their home is protection or want one for target shooting. Regardless. If someone breaks into that gun owners home and steals that nice legally owned weapon then they just facilitated crime. Legal ownership is a joke. Locking up weapons in a place like a military armory is probably the only solution
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Message 1317231 - Posted: 19 Dec 2012, 18:04:17 UTC - in response to Message 1317217.  

Locking up weapons in a place like a military armory is probably the only solution


Totally Agree!

I have not spent all my working life to date stuck in an office or on the factory floor (Not that I'm demeaning that, done enough of it myself), & without going into specific details, I have witnessed, often at first hand, violent death, with many being avoidable.

To fire up your imagination, Trains & lorries (trucks) were the weapons involved!

I have also personally been present at several military accidents, both in the field & on the firing range & a 7.62mm round........

.....both those accidents happened because the soldiers concerned forgot their S.A.A (Skill at Arms) which the British Army constantly drills into you every time you pick up your weapon from the armoury.

No, this is the political forum & we are all entitled to our own views.

Unfortunately, there is nothing, nor any person alive that will ever change my view of: -

No Cilvilian to own weapons!
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Message 1317232 - Posted: 19 Dec 2012, 18:07:02 UTC

There is a case for guns that are used for target shooting only, being kept securely in a gun club. But as soon as criminals realise that there is an arsenal there they will raid it. Back to square one.
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Message 1317235 - Posted: 19 Dec 2012, 18:10:14 UTC - in response to Message 1317232.  
Last modified: 19 Dec 2012, 18:11:01 UTC

There is a case for guns that are used for target shooting only, being kept securely in a gun club. But as soon as criminals realise that there is an arsenal there they will raid it. Back to square one.



Not neccessarily. If secured correctly, it is not that easy to break into & by the time they do, if the building is properly alarmed/cctv, the cops would arrive before they actually gained access.
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Message 1317239 - Posted: 19 Dec 2012, 18:15:44 UTC - in response to Message 1317160.  

What we don't have here is a culture of taking pot shots at anything that moves, like it seems the USA does. Rightly or wrongly, that is how it comes across to us. If I'm wrong, them I'm happy to be corrected. I can't help your countries PR!

Will you please take Rupert back, that will help our PR immensely.

You are right that America has a vandalism problem. Destruction is glamorized by Hollywood. Perhaps we should tax every senseless violent act appearing on film or TV.

I say vandalism because that is what comes across as the culture to you. You don't see the destruction by spray paint can, knife, wrench, hammer, car or whatever other tool except gun on your news. Once they get the "destroy it mindset," it doesn't much matter if it is a living thing or a inanimate object. They destroy or kill it. They may even take perverse sexual pleasure in doing so.

Some have the beginnings of conscience and only go this far.
Others have none and start with small animals and progress to killing people.


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Message 1317241 - Posted: 19 Dec 2012, 18:24:14 UTC - in response to Message 1317232.  

For target shooting you actually only need standard air powered weapons.
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Message 1317274 - Posted: 19 Dec 2012, 19:14:35 UTC

When I was in my early teens, my school friends had .177 metal slug air rifles. But my parents would never let me have one.

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Message 1317321 - Posted: 19 Dec 2012, 21:16:46 UTC

My problem with this latest shooter is not over whether he used guns or knives or some other lethal weapon. My problem is that I cannot comprehend what series of events or circumstances lead him to commit such a horrific crime. Was it his upbringing or maybe watching too many movies with mass killing as the theme or playing too many first person shooter video games? How can anyone get that numb to death so as to shoot totally innocent six and seven year old children as well as his mother and eventually himself?

Do we need a system wherein individual with such antisocial behavior traits are identified and isolated before a tragedy like this happens? In a "free" country do we have to let things like this happen from time to time so the rest of us can retain our sense of freedom or is there a way to identify and neutralize such behavior abnormalities without imparing our liberties.
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My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.
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Message 1317327 - Posted: 19 Dec 2012, 21:24:01 UTC - in response to Message 1317321.  

Quite honestly that would result in an overwhelming gov't response. Check out your local Therapists office and you'll understand that you can't possibly watch everyone.

BTW I actually am fairly antisocial and am very uncomfortable in crowds or being around people even when I know the people. Would I be restricted?
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Message boards : Politics : Another American Massacre


 
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