Guy, haven't you (like ID) defined 'fail' as voting in a way you disagree with? It has a sort of 'if I were absolute monarch of the world' flavor to it.

Today's the big day for Greece! They lead the world in demonstrating how a representative democracy can fail and today they can demonstrate how to lead us into the new world order!

Good link. Yep, it should have stayed as the EEC.

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Even if Greece manages to stay in the Euro & accepts the austerity measures imposed on them, as well as Ireland, Portugal & Spain, with the possibility of Italy joining that group - WHY should they have to accept it when one of the 2 BIG GUNS of the Eurozone rejects austerity?

Greek Elections Live

What next if France rejects austerity?

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UK plc turns against Europe

Quite a mixed view on the ECM coming from businesses refereed to in this link.
My feeling here is that UK PLC sees itself stuck in the ECM frying pan but not
too sure what would happen if we jumped out. Simple, have a good look around
you and you'll notice that - the heat heating the frying pan is coming from within
the pan and not from outside, "called internal combustion". So jump and save
yourself for it should be clear to all that the only ECM member gaining
significantly from this Union is Germany and will do so for as long as she
remains a major exporter. Once Germany starts to loose her market share to
the up and coming new world countries, Brasil, India, China and Japan again
then who knows what problems this will create in time for the ECM.

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The Kite Fliers

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Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

As an exporter it is in Germany's interest to have a weak Euro. They have reasonably good internal supplies of raw materials and energy (lots of coal...).
But they do have tom import quite quantities of some raw materials, and much of the oil, which makes a weak Euro not so good for them.
Being bound to a currency who's value is not wholly under their control upsets quite a number of Germans, it makes them nervous, particularly when they look at the economy of the countries they are bound to. Very few of those could be described as "major manufacturing and exporting" economies, indeed most are heavy importers of manufactured goods, but self sufficient or exporters of food stuffs (Germany is a net importer of food stuffs, although is better than the UK on that front). Germans themselves are afraid of the consequences of Greece. They are not sure which is the worse scenario - Greece staying within the Euro, or Greece leaving it, neither is "good for Germany". Indeed the one thing they are sure of is Greece should probably never have been allowed to join the Euro as a partner - perhaps as a user, but certainly not as a partner.

(There are a number of countries that are not members of the Euro, but use the currency as a matter of convenience. They buy the currency they need as they need it, at a negotiated price. I'm not sure what "currency" they use for these transactions, but I suspect its a bit like the "wooden dollars" that circulate within many large multi-national businesses.)

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Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?

Latest so far....

Not looking good

Interesting comments from the Greeks themselves.....

Judgement Day in Athens

"Kefalas said: “Europe needs to make it clear it will support a unified Europe. Right now, different messages are coming out of Brussels – there are problems in Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Greece – how many problems have you got?

It is very clear that the problem is a European one, made at the creation of the euro and those problems are coming home to roost.”

Personally, I think this is at the heart of the problem...

"He added: “As long as the markets view the euro, not as a single, unified currency but as an Italian euro, a Spanish euro, a Greek euro, the Greek economy will not stabilise. So we need the uncertainty to stop.”

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shades of Ancient Greece - A modern day Greek Tragedy

"Why are the European elites carrying out this unprecedented campaign, which strikes at the heart of the EU and would lead to outrage if the target were the British, the Italians, or the French?"

Will the Asteroid hit?

"Their pulses are also raised by this election, but pumping through the veins of the highest reaches of government is fear of the consequences for Britain of a collapse of the euro. That dread is compounded by their lack of power to shape events on mainland Europe."

"Though the chancellor and the governor seek to project a calm confidence in public, the corridors of the Treasury and the Bank reek of terror. They know that there is no firewall that they could possibly construct that would fully protect Britain from the consequences of an anarchic disintegration of the euro".

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Will the Asteroid hit?

Hold hard Everard! That is the Guardian, They ain't much far behind he Mail theses days in doom mongering. I think we should start up a new newspaper called the "Seti Times" to get it all in proportion. Any volunteers for Editor?

So as commoners, we, on your say so, have to ignore all the media & listen to those politicians you defend?

Show me the proof that there is NOT one dishonest politician in this country....or even the Eurozone for that matter!

It's precisely because of that attitude, we're in this mess.

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Socialists take French parliament with sweeping win!

Another country leading the way!

Wow, that's put the "Cat amongst the Pidgeons"...oh, boy be a fly on the wall at the G20 Summit tomorrow..... :)

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So far, it looks like the New Democracy won the election but without a clear majority & are seeking to form a government with the 2nd largest party, Pasok. Unfortunately, they have stated that they will not form a government without participation from Syriza.

All 3 parties have confirmed that they will stay in the Euro but will go for renegotiation of the bailout terms - To date, Merkel will not allow this....

...Add to this the overall socialist majority win in France & the G20 Summit is going to be very interesting indeed.

Over to you "Your Majesty"

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Very exciting times indeed.

I can honestly say I'm glad I'm not going to b a fly on the wall at G20 - I'd be fried on the wall as so much hot air will be spouted

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Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?

LOL... & I bet a few curses as well! Currently watching the BBC News. It's stated that Greece can now begin to move forward, but early days yet.

It's also been stated that this election does not end the Eurocrisis...It's far from over.

From what i can see from all this, Europe is staggering from one crisis to the next. Greece has had their say... Now the biggest problem is not going to be Spain or Italy, but France....

....Unless Hollande is playing poker with Merkel & attempting to get her to raise or fold.... Unfortunately that's a dangerous manoeuvre as it could backfire....

I cannot see any light at the end of the tunnel as the Greek elections has not forced the EU elite into making a firm decision, & we'll continue to stagnate.

If that does happen....what next?

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Stagnant water is unpleasant to try to swim in...

And a stagnated European economy will be unpleasant for much of the "civilised" world's people.

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Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?

what next?

Will the G8 dictate to the G20 what to do ?

Doubt it. Merkel has already stood up to them at the G8 summit in May (when that most brilliant of picutes cropped up in the papers - Cameron on Chelsea winning the Champions League - Merkel wasn't too pleased.. :) ).

Can't see her giving in that easily.

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Intersting report on the BBC... Personally, I believe number 3 is the best option (but the barber always gives me a number 2 - so does he know something I don't?)......

5 ways the Eurozone could break up

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we'll continue to stagnate.

If that does happen....what next?

Welcome to the new normal.

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we'll continue to stagnate.

If that does happen....what next?

Welcome to the new normal.

That's not an answer. It only raises more questions.

1: WHY?
2: Acceptable?
3: Neccessary?
4: Who says so?
5: In reply to no 4 - WHY?

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