Major Power Outage at SSL

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Horacio

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Message 1240156 - Posted: 2 Jun 2012, 14:45:41 UTC - in response to Message 1240001.  

No, I quoted Horatio, then you quoted that post of mine quoting Horatio and responded to me, telling me that I didn't "get" something.

Please check facts before closing cases. Thank you.


I wasn't equating SETI with a bussines. You used the "closed shop" as example, and what Ive said was just that shops put a sign in the front door if something out of schedulle happens, even when there is no need of a sign to notice that is obviously closed.

"When It should be open" it's not the same as "When it must be open" and not even close to "When they promissed that it will be open and then I have the right to know why it is closed".

Like others did, I've just shared an idea to improve the comunications of the project (and I was clear that I accept the fact that it may not be good or possible or worth).

Is it clear now?


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Message 1240190 - Posted: 2 Jun 2012, 16:03:26 UTC - in response to Message 1240156.  

No, I quoted Horatio, then you quoted that post of mine quoting Horatio and responded to me, telling me that I didn't "get" something.

Please check facts before closing cases. Thank you.


I wasn't equating SETI with a bussines. You used the "closed shop" as example, and what Ive said was just that shops put a sign in the front door if something out of schedulle happens, even when there is no need of a sign to notice that is obviously closed.

"When It should be open" it's not the same as "When it must be open" and not even close to "When they promissed that it will be open and then I have the right to know why it is closed".

Like others did, I've just shared an idea to improve the comunications of the project (and I was clear that I accept the fact that it may not be good or possible or worth).

Is it clear now?


No, not at all. But you did equate SETI with a business by complaining about the lack of information and you expounded off my analogy.

The point I am asking is "Why?" Why do people feel the need to have comm all the time? People bitch about information overload in a digital world, but then the moment something goes wrong, they want official communication even if it is obvious, and I'm struggling to understand why.

I don't think the communications needs to improve. I think people should use their heads and not blow this thing out of proportion.
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Message 1240216 - Posted: 2 Jun 2012, 16:53:17 UTC - in response to Message 1239963.  


https://twitter.com/#!/setihome

Funny how the colour "yellow" and the word "bypass" comes to mind... :-)


Well there ya go! Now I don't want to hear another complaint about a lack of information from the project. :-D



PERFECT. Twitter, Facebook, didn't even think of that.

I'm appeased with the twitter link alone. Now I'll shut up about it all. :-D
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Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
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Message 1240222 - Posted: 2 Jun 2012, 17:00:13 UTC

Lets get one thing straight, the path your data packet takes to get to Seti. It takes whatever route is available to PIAX in Palo Alto CA, the end point for Hurricane Electric. It then goes onto the Seti controlled router and is redirected via IIRC CAL REN, across the Bay to Berkeley and arrives in the Campus IT facility. There a Campus owned and controlled router redirects it to another Seti Router. From there it goes up the hill to another Seti router in the closet at the SSL. From there it is redirected to the Seti machines.

Now your web packet takes a different route. It arrives in the Berkeley Campus IT via whatever route is available, never on Hurricane Electric. It is routed by campus owned and controlled via campus links to the closet up the hill at SSL. A completely different campus router then sends it on to the web server computer. Note this is also the route to BOINC, just a different web server.

At: http://boinc.berkeley.edu/dev/forum_forum.php?id=11 a forum is provided for outage information on any BOINC project including SETI. Bookmark it for future reference!

Now consider where a fault takes both Seti and BOINC off. If Campus IT or the SSL burns down, both go off. If an idiot with a backhoe takes out the fiber chase they both go off. The the power at Campus IT goes down they both go off. If power at the SSL goes down, they both go off. If a big earthquake hits, you will hear about that on your local news.

So all this talk about redirects leaves only one place where that backup server can be located. Campus IT. And most double fault paths are at Campus IT. Does campus IT have a rack where a server can be placed? It is cost efficient to run a backup 24/7/365 that may only see use a few hours every couple of years? Not bloody likely. But having campus IT redirect onto a campus status page, that might be nice, but that is a campus function, not a Seti function. Your bone to pick is with The Regents of the University of California at Berkeley, not Seti.

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Message 1240226 - Posted: 2 Jun 2012, 17:03:17 UTC - in response to Message 1240127.  
Last modified: 2 Jun 2012, 17:07:50 UTC

I now own the domain name setiisdown.com.

First step.


HAHAHAHA, I considered doing it, but I didn't have 10$ to waste on it this week.


And yes we are all upset about the outages recently. And perhaps we're making mountains out of mole hills.

Maybe it's time to be thankful it's all up and running, and drop the issue. It looks like we have covered all opinions, and Jord brings up a good point that it is very unlikely the Boinc site will be down again, unless disaster strikes.
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Message 1240242 - Posted: 2 Jun 2012, 17:34:45 UTC - in response to Message 1240127.  

I now own the domain name setiisdown.com.

First step.


All I get is "site under construction". Any information on why this site is down, and when it will come back?

Just kidding.

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Richard Haselgrove Project Donor
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Message 1240293 - Posted: 2 Jun 2012, 18:43:29 UTC - in response to Message 1240222.  

So all this talk about redirects leaves only one place where that backup server can be located. Campus IT. And most double fault paths are at Campus IT. Does campus IT have a rack where a server can be placed? It is cost efficient to run a backup 24/7/365 that may only see use a few hours every couple of years? Not bloody likely. But having campus IT redirect onto a campus status page, that might be nice, but that is a campus function, not a Seti function. Your bone to pick is with The Regents of the University of California at Berkeley, not Seti.

And during the recent unscheduled failure, information was available from both Campus IT and UCB.

http://ucbsystems.org/2012/05/page/2/
http://newscenter.berkeley.edu/2012/05/16/power-outage-darkens-lawrence-hall-rest-of-campus-hill-area/

Perhaps the mistake people are making is to think of SETI@home as an isolated, alien speck of life with no external support system or information context. Much like homo sapiens itself....
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Message 1240319 - Posted: 2 Jun 2012, 20:16:21 UTC - in response to Message 1239629.  

For what reason? If the power is out no computer is going to be reachable.

Look here for status when it hits the fan.

Do you want a personal phone call when there is a major unplanned event?
Can you take anything serious?
Sorry, but your reply is just a joke. If the power is out at Berkley, how is that status page going to help...
The only thing that you proof with your reply is my statement that common sense is indeed a rare commodity these days...

No, I do not want a personal phone call, but it can't be too hard to use means to notify/inform about such issues that does not depend on services at Berkeley, simple as that.
It can't be too hard to find a hosting location for the web site and forum outside of the direct Berkeley infrastructure either...

Ralf
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Message 1240320 - Posted: 2 Jun 2012, 20:17:03 UTC - in response to Message 1240042.  
Last modified: 2 Jun 2012, 20:21:22 UTC

If I am remembering correctly (not guaranteed at my age) during the original catastrophic power line failure, the S@H Homepage url was redirected to the UC Berkeley IT Dept System Status Page, and later the SSL Homepage, with a note and periodic updates by the IT Department.

During the Tuesday-Thursday Repair outage, that did not happen. So I set NNT and checked the Cricket graphs and the GPUUG website until I saw the note explaining the repair outage and estimated restart time.

It has also been noted that Eric found the Notices function not operational, but now may have it fixed.

Or maybe next time, if they have enough warning, they can send out a mass Private Message, so all of us with PM email notification will get the word.

Seems my memory was faulty, in that i actually saw Matt's warning notice, just before they shut down for the repair outage on Tuesday, so I knew why & how long they(we) would be off-line. So I retract my statement about no notice on the IST page - I didn't bother to look.

@Richard: thanks for the links, I now have them bookmarked, along with the Cricket graphs, for future reference.
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Message 1240327 - Posted: 2 Jun 2012, 20:24:41 UTC - in response to Message 1239795.  

There is never a lack of information, there is only ways to interpret the information available.

Again, if the servers are down, you can't get to the website, that it would seem obvious that there's no point in going forward until later. Try again in a couple days.

The point is....

Many of us dedicated Setizens would like to know WHY the servers are down.
And any info on when they might be expected to be back up.


The point is...

You'll get told as soon as they can get the information to us. Does WHY really matter in the immediate, when its just as good later?
Yes, it matters. As nobody knows just by the fact that everything is down if this is just a temporary glitch, taking a few minutes or something that will last not even hours, but days or possibly weeks if push comes to shove...

Communication should have a much higher priority than some DC projects seem to think.

Also kind of telling that you keep ruffling your feathers about this and then are too cowardice to show your name...

Ralf
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Message 1240363 - Posted: 2 Jun 2012, 21:15:57 UTC

This thread is MEANT to be for NEWS.

NOT a continuous whining about the presence or absence of an announcement about a PLANNED outage that occurred a few days ago.

Much more of this and I will be tempted to hit the "lock" button for the thread and the "hide" button for a few of the more recent posts, which are getting very close to the "personal" level.
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Message 1240377 - Posted: 2 Jun 2012, 21:25:50 UTC - in response to Message 1239166.  

It turns out that there are two mechanisms for sending "Notices" to the BOINC client. Apparently one of them has stopped working, or never worked for us. I've enabled the other mechanism. Next time your BOINC client gets an update from SETI@home you'll see some old messages. If we fix the broken mechanism you might start seeing double messages, at which point I'll disable one.

Thanks for fixing the Notices, i've even had a notice from Seti Beta,

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Message 1240458 - Posted: 2 Jun 2012, 23:59:26 UTC

Why am I just now getting a message about this power outage?

Michael McMurtrey
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Message 1240461 - Posted: 3 Jun 2012, 0:02:38 UTC

They just fixed the "message" system for seti@home. We were warned we would get some old messages. Just disregard it. Next time the message will show up when they send one.
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Message 1240471 - Posted: 3 Jun 2012, 0:35:52 UTC

Well, any next preplanned outage notice will go into my old BOINC FAQs (first FAQ) and in the new BOINCFAQs Wiki (address still anonymous to most, so hopefully the next outage is in a year ;-)), where I'll also put new about unplanned outages. Having a direct line to Rom, who has a direct line to just about everyone else, helps.
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Message 1240473 - Posted: 3 Jun 2012, 0:45:02 UTC - in response to Message 1232771.  

a good diet.
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Message 1240475 - Posted: 3 Jun 2012, 0:47:03 UTC - in response to Message 1240327.  
Last modified: 3 Jun 2012, 1:16:27 UTC

The point is....

Many of us dedicated Setizens would like to know WHY the servers are down.
And any info on when they might be expected to be back up.


The point is...

You'll get told as soon as they can get the information to us. Does WHY really matter in the immediate, when its just as good later?
Yes, it matters. As nobody knows just by the fact that everything is down if this is just a temporary glitch, taking a few minutes or something that will last not even hours, but days or possibly weeks if push comes to shove...


So you're telling me that you lack the simple deductive reasoning to understand how to determine if its a temporary glitch on your own? That checking back in a day or two isn't good enough or that you can't be bothered? I wasn't aware that SETI was so important that you can't live without it for a day or three, or that your require someone to tell you the obvious.

Communication should have a much higher priority than some DC projects seem to think.


These are science projects. You volunteer your time when the project is available. If the project isn't available, for whatever reason, then 'dems da breaks. I don't know about you, but I have a lot of things to tend to in my life to worry about SETI being down for even a month at a time.

Also kind of telling that you keep ruffling your feathers about this and then are too cowardice to show your name...

Ralf


I'm ruffling my feathers by having an opposing viewpoint? I didn't know I wasn't allowed to speak my opinion on the matter, and to speak out in favor of people using their own heads instead of being told what to think. I'm a big fan of being self reliant and learning to read a situation on my own, then I can confirm whether I'm right or wrong later, or if it really even mattered in the grand scheme of things.

I'm sorry that you don't seem to be able to understand concepts as "what's in a name?" and that most people on the internet don't use their real names anyway, but you go right ahead and use your ad-hominem attacks against me if it makes you feel tougher, big guy. Go get 'em tiger!
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Message 1240591 - Posted: 3 Jun 2012, 9:29:21 UTC
Last modified: 3 Jun 2012, 9:31:40 UTC

it s just cause there is always something, always ^^

soon, each time a project will fail and always has problems we will say : oh its a "seti'ish project!"

kinda ^^
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Message 1240592 - Posted: 3 Jun 2012, 9:37:24 UTC - in response to Message 1232771.  

Good day, my name is George Kiranis from Greece. I hope after the power outage everything works normally. I want to know if we must do anything from our station to help your project work normally again without problems or loosing data!!!!

with regards

George Kiranis
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Message 1240617 - Posted: 3 Jun 2012, 12:19:37 UTC

Excellent!
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