No why should it, just when it starts getting seriously interesting & debatable?

ID, can you tell us why has the catholic church veered away from it's traditional role in the late 1960's, which it had maintained for centuries?

Also, it seems that you are against gay marriage? Can you then tell us why you remain a catholic with all the relevations that came/are coming out with regarding their priests & sodomy/homosexuality?

Being a baptised, but not practising,catholic myself, I'm not knocking your own faith, but it seems to me to be a blind one!

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And I'll second that one Sirius. I was raised Catholic, and have had all sacraments (except priesthood of course)... That said, me and the wife made an easy decision to not put our son through the same practice.

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#resist

Speaking as just a poster I will comment on ID's lack of a straight answer also.

He just seems to recite dogma in an effort to side step the question. If the questioner persits on an answer, He basicaly says your opinion dosent matter Only mine does.

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[/quote]

Old James

Speaking as just a poster I will comment on ID's lack of a straight answer also.

He just seems to recite dogma in an effort to side step the question. If the questioner persits on an answer, He basicaly says your opinion dosent matter Only mine does.

Yep, so if y'all repeat after me...

"Hail Mary, Full of Grace"

Now repeat that 1000 times & do not sin again.

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sorry my carma ran over the dogma.

But seriously.. I find it simply amazing when peoples religions find it necessary to tell others they have to live by that religions standards.

A guide for how you should live life? Great! Glad you find it helpful.
To dictate to others? Ummm.... I do not think so.

I see no reason why any consenting adult should be denied the right to marry who they choose. And YOUR or my religion should be completely moot.

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Janice

Speaking as just a poster I will comment on ID's lack of a straight answer also.

He just seems to recite dogma in an effort to side step the question. If the questioner persits on an answer, He basicaly says your opinion dosent matter Only mine does.

Yep, so if y'all repeat after me...

"Hail Mary, Full of Grace"

Now repeat that 1000 times & do not sin again.

Not unless you'd like another 1000X Hail Mary's

BTW for Catholics to read and understand their own faith you should pick up a book called the Catechumen of the Catholic Faith. This tells you in detail what Catholics should believe in. That being said anything left out of that book is considered up for interpretation by the individual user. results may vary.

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In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

Read the rules of the forum. Moderator actions are not to be discussed publicly. You have an issue with a Mod, use the moderartors list.

She was not acting as Moderator.

My reply had nothing to do with the actions of a Moderator.

eros is modern and ancient greek.

agápe, éros, philía, are the 3 types found in biblical sources.

I have nothing to retract.

I would like that retraction Ma'am.

Thank you......

And.........? That retraction Ma'am?

That retraction Ma'am?

my retraction will occur after you retract on there being a creator.
Neither of us has proof to suit the other.
It does not terminate discussion.

I have no wish at all to terminate talks at all. You are indeed 'Entitled to your Own Opinion'. But, for the sake of 'Intellectual Honesty' you have been proven wrong. Eros is not in the Bible. It is not in Greek Text of the Word, old or new Greek. It is not in Latin within the Vulgate. Any claim otherwise is false, a untruth, a lie. I did not call you a liar. I clearly said you are mistaken, more then once.

You cannot prove what is not there in the text.

The rest of what you have said is off topic in this thread.

That retraction Ma'am?

Fair enough, but you are still insisting on a retraction..What for? you haven't proved that the bible is factual.

Men in high clerical positions have maintained the continuation of the bible & also interpretated in their own fashion, so why can't we?

Prove us wrong & you'll get your retraction. However, don't prove it by quoting chapter & verse from the bible - it hasn't been confirmed as fact!

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eros is modern and ancient greek.

agápe, éros, philía, are the 3 types found in biblical sources.

I have nothing to retract.

I would like that retraction Ma'am.

Thank you......

And.........? That retraction Ma'am?

That retraction Ma'am?

my retraction will occur after you retract on there being a creator.
Neither of us has proof to suit the other.
It does not terminate discussion.

I have no wish at all to terminate talks at all. You are indeed 'Entitled to your Own Opinion'. But, for the sake of 'Intellectual Honesty' you have been proven wrong. Eros is not in the Bible. It is not in Greek Text of the Word, old or new Greek. It is not in Latin within the Vulgate. Any claim otherwise is false, a untruth, a lie. I did not call you a liar. I clearly said you are mistaken, more then once.

You cannot prove what is not there in the text.

The rest of what you have said is off topic in this thread.

That retraction Ma'am?

In your opinion is hell Endothermic or Exothermic?
I maintain it is in the original greek texts. You have not proven me wrong.
One of the many "corrections" made by "the church". Like saving the souls of all those "witches". Very thoughtful.

And your retraction Sir? You have still failed to prove a diety.
I presume this falls back to the Endothermic/Exothermic question as well.

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Janice

ad hominem ad infinitum...

When you have nothing for the argument the attempt is made at changing the subject and humor ro ease the pain of loosing.

+4

Actually I find you often have nothing for the argument, especially when confronted with the fact that your bible is full of conflicting ideas. If you just for a little while, look past your beliefs and perhaps bible passages that you are familiar with, you may begin to see that every other verse conflicts with your idea of your religion.

Whenever anyone mentions these conflicts in the bible, you are the one that changes the subject, without considering that your bible is totally open to interpretation and nothing may really be as "black and white" as you seem to think.

You can take any bible quote and use it to display your ideas. But what you can't seem to accept is that WE could also pick bible quotes to display our ideas.
You can say "god said thou shall not be a butt pirate". But If I had time and nothing better to do I could find several quotes that say "it's ok to be a butt pirate"... Catch my drift here. Just sayin. (I apologize for my paraphrase, but as someone who has several (very) gay friends, I am allowed to make light of the issue.)

But only your take on the bible is the correct one. I guess.

ID, I see you being asked direct simple questions all the time, and instead of giving a "yes" or "no" or "I agree" or "I don't agree(and this is why)", you typically avoid the direct questions altogether and come back by quoting some article or scripture. Which is a perfect example of having "nothing for the argument".

ID, can you at least agree there is more than one interpretation of the Bible?
(before you answer that, don't forget that there is a ton of different makings of the "Bible")

Alot of what you have said is off topic.

I have quoted the Bible once, to Guy. I have not to my reckoning quoted it again. If you can find where I have quoted the Bible over and over again please let me know.

Every link I have posted was right on topic.

The above set aside...

What is on topic is you saying you can provide Bible quotes allowing Gay Marriage. THIS I GOT TO SEE. THAT would be on topic. I'll warn you just as I have the other. There are no quotes in the Bible. The Roman and Slave Boy story you will find the same problem, the word Eros is not used.

You said many interpretations of the Bible are out in the public. Yes, that would be true. I have no problem with my Protestant brothers and sisters. I have a probem with them when they do not know how or where to apply the word Eros. The Text has remained the same. The Preacher could be the problem, don't cha think?

As you can see I have given you no link, or quote from the Bible.

Be forewarned also, I'll ask for the retraction.

Then we had many more...ad hominem ad infinitum...

None of this can be classified as real argument. Personal attracks are not argument.

This is weird! you're replying to your own post & asking me for a retraction because I haven't proved there is a deity?

I can't see any post of mine that stated one way or another, the existence of a diety.

Off topic? I believe the thread is regarding Gay marriage. Now this might be against most religious beliefs, but it comes back to a previous question asked of you.... "Why did the Catholic Church change it's teachings in the 20th century after maintaining it for centuries?"

Was it because too many "peasants" got educated & started asking sensible, thought provoking questions? Personally, that is the answer as I was one of those "peasants" asking questions & got punished for the asking.

Was that punishment correct according to that bible?

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why does the country need "the bible" to say Gay Marriage is legal? That is what law is for.
The same bible that says grass and trees were created before the sun moon and stars?(and well after the earth)

If other religions allow it, where is their religious freedom? And since many churches do perform it, I would say they disagree with your interpretation of that same book(s).

Christianity did not invent marriage. They do not own the rights to it.

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Janice

Fair enough, but you are still insisting on a retraction..What for? you haven't proved that the bible is factual.

Men in high clerical positions have maintained the continuation of the bible & also interpretated in their own fashion, so why can't we?

Prove us wrong & you'll get your retraction. However, don't prove it by quoting chapter & verse from the bible - it hasn't been confirmed as fact!

Im not going to prove the Bible is FACTUAL. You and others here brought the subject up. I did not even speak of morals, someone else did that. I have not given long Bible quotes or links in this thread. All of which is a lie by the way....

You and others have said the Bible is not a fact.

A charge was made and I answered, no such thing as Eros in the Bible. You are correct.

Now, you made a charge about sex abuse in my Church. What the hell makes you think that I would approve of such actions WITHIN or WITHOUT of my Church! What the hell is your I.Q.? Just because REAL CRIMES were committed in my Church does not fault the WHOLE CHURCH. Also, such CRIMES do not give creedence TO THE GAY MOVEMENT! What the hell is the matter with your thinking?

But that church has based it's teachings for centuries on books written by men. Throughtout those centuries, that church has interpretated the books as they saw it.

Centuries later, people got educated, which was a good thing as it helped stop blind faith - by asking serious thought provoking questions, that church should have attempted to answer them - NOT punish - THAT was the mistake!

HOWEVER, by asking such questions, it DID NOT prove the enquirer faithless! Another mistake by that church.

Note, this same argument can be said for all religions.

you've stated "real crimes" which actually occured, but did that church go out of its way intially to rectify the issue - NO IT DID NOT! It tried to cover them up!

That says a lot about that church.

Edited for spelling amendments.

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Sirius B,

YOU used the argument of sex crimes in my Church for gay acceptance.

Try again.....

If you cannot stay on topic, stop posting...ad hominem, ad infinitum...

Now, you made a charge about sex abuse in my Church. What the hell makes you think that I would approve of such actions WITHIN or WITHOUT of my Church! What the hell is your I.Q.? Just because REAL CRIMES were committed in my Church does not fault the WHOLE CHURCH. Also, such CRIMES do not give creedence TO THE GAY MOVEMENT! What the hell is the matter with your thinking?

Couple of points here.....

If the bible & the Catholic Church are indeed correct, then it is not your church, but, God's church & you are just a repentant sinner.

If your faith is that strong, the rest of the world (according to your faith) will suffer the damnations of hell come judgement day, so why are you blowing your stack?

Let the gay movement continue & your god will sort them out. Again if the bible is correct, the story of Sodom & Gomorrah springs to mind.

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Sirius B,

YOU used the argument of sex crimes in my Church for gay acceptance.

Try again.....

If you cannot stay on topic, stop posting...ad hominem, ad infinitum...

That is where you are totally incorrect! Where did I say I accepted it?

I despise the catholic church for the manner of it's teachings - however, that does not take away what I was taught.

It is not for you to condemn them but god. Remember(if you indeed have read the bible in many texts...)

"Let him who is without sin, cast the first stone"

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I DO INDEED, STAND CORRECTED ABOUT WHO'S CHURCH IT IS.

Im blowing my stack because Im not and have NOT!!!!!, made the argument from a MORAL POINT OF VIEW! You idiots changed it over to that issue.

I STOOD ON POINT OF LAW! RULE OF LAW! DAMNIT! I have just ANSWERED the charges made against the BIBLE!

YA'ALL stop being stupid about this.