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Climate Change, 'Greenhouse' effects, Environment, etc part III
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ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20147 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
... shouldn't we be trying to adapt now ?... Yes we should, and the sooner the better. Meanwhile, we also shouldn't be adding to the problem to make it yet worse and worse for yet longer. The media rhetoric and hype about all this is worthy of another thread. News publishing or just the peddling of sensationalism to sell 'stories'? Unfortunately, sensationalism anywhere discredits the source story, regardless of the full truth... All on our only planet, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30608 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
... Unless you are going to argue circular logic based on CO2 levels I don't think there is a way to get the temperature from a gas bubble. ... Perhaps you should explain the ASSUMPTION made in http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/Paleoclimatology_OxygenBalance/oxygen_balance.php upon which your data is based. I'll admit the assumption sounds reasonable, but until it is tested it is still an assumption. I love the graph of temperature in your link. About 17,500 years ago it was 8C less than it settled upon 10,000 years ago. Also note how the data is much smoother in the past as it is only much longer term average then the spiky data from recent instrumented times. Oh that shows just why those error bands get bigger and bigger as we go into the past. |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20147 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
Perhaps you should explain the ASSUMPTION made in http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/Paleoclimatology_OxygenBalance/oxygen_balance.php upon which your data is based. I'll admit the assumption sounds reasonable, but until it is tested it is still an assumption. ... All carefully compared to present day physics and real-world measurement. The assumption is that the laws of physics have not changed, and that assumption is very thoroughly tested elsewhere in the world of physics for the timescale of our universe! Thanks for reading and a good question. All on our only planet, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20147 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
An example of positive hope for our planet and people? Climate change Obama can believe in ... The President’s decision to make global warming a key theme of his speech has sparked new hope that the world may be able, at last, to mount a truly global response to one of its biggest threats. The President sprung a surprise by devoting more words to the climate threat than to any other specific policy, signalling he would make it a personal mission of his second administration. He promised: “We will respond to the threat of climate change, knowing that the failure to do so would betray our children and future generations.†He went on to take a swipe at the sceptics and highlighted the extreme weather events of the last year, including the drought and Hurricane Sandy, which, while not directly attributable to global warming, are consistent with predictions of what will happen in a world of rising temperatures – and which have turned many American minds back to the climate question. ... All on our only planet, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30608 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
All carefully compared to present day physics and real-world measurement. The assumption is that the laws of physics have not changed, and that assumption is very thoroughly tested elsewhere in the world of physics for the timescale of our universe! That is one, there are several more ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen-18 Assuming that atmospheric circulation and elevation has not changed significantly over the polesNote that significantly is not defined ... Also the assumption that the ratio of O16/O18 is stable on earth (not being bombarded by comets or solar wind for instance) is another. Another being that O16/O18 is uniformly distributed so that say a rift zone doesn't belch a large pocket of one preferentially over another. All this just makes the error bars bigger. |
W-K 666 Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 19013 Credit: 40,757,560 RAC: 67 |
Exclusive: Billionaires secretly fund attacks on climate science Audit trail reveals that donors linked to fossil fuel industry are backing global warming sceptics |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20147 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
Can oil save the rainforest? A unique chance that is under continued threat from nearby: Avaaz: Oil showdown in the Amazon There is one area of the Ecuadorian Amazon that is so pristine that the whole ecosystem has been preserved and even jaguars roam free! But the government is now threatening to go in and drill for oil. The local indigenous people have been resisting, but they are afraid that oil companies will break up the community with bribes. When they heard that people across the world might stand with them and make a stink to save their land, they were thrilled. The president of Ecuador claims to stand for indigenous rights and the environment, but he has just come up with a new plan to bring oil speculators in to 4 million hectares of jungle. If we can say 'wait a minute, you're supposed to be the green president who says no one can buy Ecuador' ... Also, there are too many examples of where sudden oil wealth only feeds a very corrupt few and badly despoils the area and the politics of the host country for the worst... All on our only one planet, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30608 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Uh oh, models wrong again ... now we know the cause is over population ... http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2013/jan/27/scienceofclimatechange-climate-change A study, published in the journal Nature Climate Change, found that the heat thrown off by major metropolitan areas on America's east coast caused winter warming across large areas of North America, thousands of miles away from those cities. On the flip side, however, changes in atmospheric conditions had an opposite effect in Europe – lowering autumn temperatures by as much as 1 degree C (1.8F). "What really surprised us was that this energy use was a tiny amount, and yet it can create such a wide impact far away from the heat source," said Guang Zhang, a scientist at the Scripps Institution of Oceanography, who led the study. "We didn't expect it to be this much." Just what does that say about the accuracy of the data set used as the baseline for climate warming studies, which assumes that conditions were stable over a many century period when the baseline was recorded? |
Scary Capitalist Send message Joined: 21 May 01 Posts: 7404 Credit: 97,085 RAC: 0 |
What I hear is that the alarmism doesn't hold true to facts. Even if global waming is true it doesn't constitute 'crisis'. Furthermore, even if this is some sort of a problem there's nothing we can do about it and the price of actual human lives isn't worth the 'correction' prescribed by the religion of enviornmental zealotry. Nothing that proclaims a repair of supposed enviornmental 'damage' can justify the sacrifice of literally millions of human lives on its altar. Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data! I did NOT authorize this belly writing! |
Scary Capitalist Send message Joined: 21 May 01 Posts: 7404 Credit: 97,085 RAC: 0 |
Ice does NOT RAISE THE WATER LEVEL. LOL Ice is neutrally boyant! 10% of an iceberg is above sea level. 90 below. The displacement is the same regardless of what form H20 takes. Come on! This is basic physics!!! Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data! I did NOT authorize this belly writing! |
Scary Capitalist Send message Joined: 21 May 01 Posts: 7404 Credit: 97,085 RAC: 0 |
bump Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data! I did NOT authorize this belly writing! |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30608 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Ice does NOT RAISE THE WATER LEVEL. LOL Ice that is on land, say Greenland or Antarctica and melts does. Basic physics. |
Ex: "Socialist" Send message Joined: 12 Mar 12 Posts: 3433 Credit: 2,616,158 RAC: 2 |
Ice does NOT RAISE THE WATER LEVEL. LOL We've had this discussion about ice. You are wrong. Even un-melted ice has mass, which DOES make water rise. Drop an ice cube in a glass... The issue is not the difference between solid and liquid, the issue is this ice was not part of the oceans, and now it is. #resist |
Ex: "Socialist" Send message Joined: 12 Mar 12 Posts: 3433 Credit: 2,616,158 RAC: 2 |
Martin Wrote: And it's all a question of physics... This thread has grown rather large and seems to have split pretty much into two main themes: That of climate denial and denial of all physics and science, and that of reporting what is actually happening and what we can positively do. Hence two threads to continue the argument/discussion: Climate Change, 'Greenhouse' effects: DENIAL Climate Change, 'Greenhouse' effects: Solutions Positive comments welcomed! We may yet save our planet from ourselves... All on our only planet, Martin |
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