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Climate Change, 'Greenhouse' effects, Environment, etc part III
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soft^spirit Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 6497 Credit: 34,134,168 RAC: 0 |
New Thread, the other by ML1 had grown ominously large. Janice |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20283 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
... ominously large. An apt description for Mankind's industrial activities?... A slightly untidy thread swap-over, but here's one note to hopefully get back on track: That's from Arctic Ocean Ice Volume is Decreasing A longer term view is given on: Arctic sea ice extent over 1,450 years And for the Denialists "so what?", and for everyone, a must-see article and video: 2011 Arctic Minimum So what's up with that? All on our only one planet, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
soft^spirit Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 6497 Credit: 34,134,168 RAC: 0 |
simply put.. as the ice sheets become a thing of the past, the ground ice will follow. Glaciers dry up. Same at the south pole. The Alaskan Tundra used to be refered to as "Frozen Tundra"(it was frozen, period.) North Pole was frozen, period. Had been for much longer than humans were around. It will not be long and the Arctic will no longer freeze. Ocean currents will change, and oceans will continue and accelerate their rise. Such was the world we live in. Janice |
Matt Giwer Send message Joined: 21 May 00 Posts: 841 Credit: 990,879 RAC: 0 |
simply put.. as the ice sheets become a thing of the past, the ground ice will follow. Glaciers dry up. Same at the south pole. But when it has been ice free the earth had a tropical climate almost to the arctic circle, definitely at for north as England. Sounds pretty good to me. It will not be long and the Arctic will no longer freeze. Ocean currents will change, and oceans will continue and accelerate their rise. Arctic ice floats to it has no effect on sea level. As you know the currents will change then will you be so good as to show us what they will be after they change? Unvarnished Haaretz Jerusalem Post The origin of the Yahweh Cult |
soft^spirit Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 6497 Credit: 34,134,168 RAC: 0 |
simply put.. as the ice sheets become a thing of the past, the ground ice will follow. Glaciers dry up. Same at the south pole. People in coastal areas or under 100ft elevations will certainly disagree. As I think I said, the artic ice is just the beginning, the ground ice will follow. North coast of Europe, Asia, Canada, and Antarctica will certanly follow. The currents? We do not know. One heck of an experiment isn't it? Let us see how badly we can mess with the earth before it kicks us all off! http://flood.firetree.net/ http://flood.firetree.net/?ll=-2.4602,-60.4248&z=12&m=60 Amazon Bay anyone? Janice |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30648 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
I thought wind power was the answer to CO2 caused global warming. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2137170/Wind-farms-link-rising-temperatures-detrimental-impact-wildlife-weather-say-scientists.html Wind farms linked to rising temperatures: Scientists concerned about impact on wildlife and weather. |
W-K 666 Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 19059 Credit: 40,757,560 RAC: 67 |
Is that really surprising, if you think about it. When you force hydraulic fluid to do work it warms up, so why shouldn't the air warm up when forced to turn a turbine. P.S. I am not an expert in these things, I just worked on the electronics and computers that controlled hydraulic machinery. |
Terror Australis Send message Joined: 14 Feb 04 Posts: 1817 Credit: 262,693,308 RAC: 44 |
Couldn't resist posting this wind-farms-linked-to-temperature-rises. It seems no matter what we do, we're screwed anyway. T.A. Edit: Oops beaten to the punch :( |
Ex: "Socialist" Send message Joined: 12 Mar 12 Posts: 3433 Credit: 2,616,158 RAC: 2 |
Arctic ice floats to it has no effect on sea level. This statement is very wrong on two levels. 1. Ice does not stay ice when the temperature is above freezing, and the water that the ice is in is above freezing. Perhaps we need a science lesson. 2. Ice, even when not melted, even if floating on top of the water, still raises water level, and back to #1: the ice doesn't stay frozen. #resist |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20283 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
Couldn't resist posting this Good pun there (propeller screw... :-o ) and that is also a very good example of a perfectly sensible and sensibly written article being completely screwed by silly inferred non-meaning to a journalistic ambiguous sensationalist headline. So, from that article, what of the: ... "The critical thing is that it's a local effect and one we need to understand. "If you were to use solar panels rather than turbines you would still have an effect. "The question is whether that local effect is offsetting the generation of power from coal-fired power stations. "Because fundamentally the impact of carbon dioxide emissions is having a global effect rather than just a local one. ... So... You have a small local disturbance that mixes the air up a little to make it slightly warmer rather than allowing undisturbed stratification. Or... You have a stupid amount of pollution from fossil fuels power plants and fossil fuels mining and transport of all the muck that instead mucks us all up to a much greater extent GLOBALLY? So... Local... Global... Which might be worse/better? All just a game? This is the only one world we have, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20283 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
And continuing the observations that things are heating up with multiple adverse knock-on effects: Study finds water cycle accelerating with warming Wet gets wetter, dry gets drier Climate models are inaccurate, but not in a comforting way: that’s the conclusion of an ocean salinity study conducted by CSIRO and the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, which indicates that changes in the water cycle are running faster than models predicted. ... ... supports the idea that with a warming climate, wet regions are likely to get wetter, with a corresponding drying trend in already dry regions. Durack says the study found “robust evidence of an intensified global water cycle at a rate of about eight percent per degree of surface warmingâ€. An enhancement of the water cycle, he said, is driven by the ability of warmer air to hold and redistribute more moisture. ... No surprises there. What does make for fun reading are the various comments made to that article. "Waterworld" here we come? Or is this all a game of the fossil fuels industry and corrupt politics taking us to the brink to then very expensively attempt to 'save' us all from ourselves at the latest possible moment?... This is our only one world, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
Matt Giwer Send message Joined: 21 May 00 Posts: 841 Credit: 990,879 RAC: 0 |
... ominously large. Arctic ice floats therefore it has no impact on sea level whether or not it exists. The last time there was no arctic ice Britain had a near tropical climate with rain forests. I assume the Brits are looking forward to it even if the land owners in London are not. Unvarnished Haaretz Jerusalem Post The origin of the Yahweh Cult |
soft^spirit Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 6497 Credit: 34,134,168 RAC: 0 |
A great deal of ice in the Artic circle is on land. Do you honestly have any reason to believe the melting will stop at the shore? That would be downright gullible Janice |
Matt Giwer Send message Joined: 21 May 00 Posts: 841 Credit: 990,879 RAC: 0 |
simply put.. as the ice sheets become a thing of the past, the ground ice will follow. Glaciers dry up. Same at the south pole. WAY to simply put. Glaciers are simply a ratio of winter snow addition to summer melt. There is no intrinsic reason to think warming will change this ratio. A warmer climate should have more moisture in the air and thus more winter additions than summer melt but of course that is also to simple. Having only one specific verifiable thing happening does not imply all the imagined consequences which are not verified are going to happen. Personally I have no problem with Siberia and Canada becoming the breadbaskets of the world. I cannot imagine Sweden and Norway objecting to Florida type winters. I point out that hard winters include common reports of death from freezing while heat waves rarely have such reports. Cold kills us not heat. In any event the rational person not only demands evidence of warming but of each and every stated consequence of it without exception and no gimmes allowed. FWIW: I have been following the hysterical melters since they replaced the coming ice agers. NEVER did they say anything but warming, they never said variable climate until the warming stopped. Remember you are talking to the guy who owns the palm tree franchise for Washington DC and I am pissed I am not rich as I was promised. Unvarnished Haaretz Jerusalem Post The origin of the Yahweh Cult |
Matt Giwer Send message Joined: 21 May 00 Posts: 841 Credit: 990,879 RAC: 0 |
simply put.. as the ice sheets become a thing of the past, the ground ice will follow. Glaciers dry up. Same at the south pole. People under 100 feet of water will have had a century to move inland. That they are underwater is a consequence of their own procrastination. Unvarnished Haaretz Jerusalem Post The origin of the Yahweh Cult |
Matt Giwer Send message Joined: 21 May 00 Posts: 841 Credit: 990,879 RAC: 0 |
Arctic ice floats to it has no effect on sea level. Yes you do. Back when I was a lad Mr. Wizard demonstrated it. 2. Ice, even when not melted, even if floating on top of the water, still raises water level, and back to #1: the ice doesn't stay frozen. The simple experiment is to put ice in a glass and then fill the glass to the brim with water and wait for the ice to melt. Your doth not runneth over. QED Try it and see. Unvarnished Haaretz Jerusalem Post The origin of the Yahweh Cult |
Matt Giwer Send message Joined: 21 May 00 Posts: 841 Credit: 990,879 RAC: 0 |
Couldn't resist posting this If you believe journalism majors. ALL wind energy eventually dissipates as heat. That is called elementary thermodynamics. If it did not eventually dissipate it would be perpetual motion. Unvarnished Haaretz Jerusalem Post The origin of the Yahweh Cult |
Ex: "Socialist" Send message Joined: 12 Mar 12 Posts: 3433 Credit: 2,616,158 RAC: 2 |
Oh dear. I'm not even going there. Someone better save us though. #resist |
soft^spirit Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 6497 Credit: 34,134,168 RAC: 0 |
Oh dear. I'm not even going there. Someone better save us though. Fingers deeply in ears and the sound of "na na na I am not listening to you"? What is the point. Janice |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30648 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
A great deal of ice in the Artic circle is on land. If you said antarctic I'd agree. |
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