Updating for upcoming apps.....

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Richard Haselgrove Project Donor
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Message 1205579 - Posted: 13 Mar 2012, 23:30:36 UTC - in response to Message 1205569.  

How does one run opti apps for GPU MB and stock apps for CPU AP ?

It's not possible. It isn't a question of the apps themselves, but the way you run them.

Either you run "Anonymous Platform" (with an app_info.xml file), or you don't. Eric's advice basically means "don't put any AP_v6 application into your app_info yet". There will be ap_v505 resends and timeouts for a while yet, and hopefully MB work, if you can squeeze it down the pipe.
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Message 1205580 - Posted: 13 Mar 2012, 23:35:28 UTC - in response to Message 1205578.  

Thanks Sten, I was hoping my 4 validated units, so far, were enough to push us over the edge. (LOL)

Now the dilemma is what to do with all the others running and waiting to run.

Maybe I will do nothing and just watch the boards for a few days.



Well, I will do nothing too. I'll leave my setting as is here, except that I will allow MB on all my computers here on main too, even though that's against my religious belief :-), and I'll also keep my settings on Beta. I'll crunch what I get now, from both projects.

I'm going to let things settle, before I'll change anything, or add anything.
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Message 1205583 - Posted: 13 Mar 2012, 23:39:37 UTC
Last modified: 13 Mar 2012, 23:49:24 UTC

Does anyone know if Astropulse V6 is going to be developed for OSX? I would like to try some but I don't run anonymous platform and so have been locked out so far. I do pledge money to the project but don't like the fact that my platform is mostly only half supported. I am thinking about stopping cash support to the project.
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Message 1205585 - Posted: 13 Mar 2012, 23:42:31 UTC
Last modified: 14 Mar 2012, 0:19:32 UTC

edit: the answer came already while I was typing. Below is now irrelevant.

So.. is it possible to download the stock exe and throw it into app_info? If so, where can this exe be acquired (and I'm assuming libfftw.dll is in the same place, if it is still needed)?

[content removed as requested]

It would give me an opportunity to not only help build the baseline for the validators, but it would also give me a baseline to compare the new opt. app to, and provide a fresh start for my spreadsheet at the same time.
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Message 1205586 - Posted: 13 Mar 2012, 23:42:33 UTC - in response to Message 1205583.  

Does anyone know if Astropulse V6 is going to be developed for OSX? I would like to try some but I don't run anonymous platform and so have lock out so far. I do pledge money to the project but don't like the fact that my platform is mostly only half supported. I am thinking about stopping cash support to the project.

It's a very good and fair question. At this point, we don't know the answer, and life is a bit too hectic for everyone, so it may get lost in the crush. Don't let it be forgotten.
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Message 1205587 - Posted: 13 Mar 2012, 23:44:37 UTC - in response to Message 1205580.  

I will allow MB on all my computers

Who are you and what have you done with the real Sten-Arne??
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Message 1205588 - Posted: 13 Mar 2012, 23:44:48 UTC - in response to Message 1205576.  

NEWS before it happens:

Email from Eric:

The big issue is if they [optimised app users] return their results before any from the official clients have been returned, it's hard to tell what will happen. I'd recommend that people using optimized apps turn off astropulse v6 processing for a couple weeks. I'll post a news item to that effect.

The reason being, that they aren't certain until it happens whether opt app users will get any credit. There was a bug at Beta which experienced testers will know all too well - zero credit. It cleared itself without intervention after a couple of months (slow turnover at Beta), but nobody quite knows why.

You have been warned: crunch stock, or (possibly) crunch for zero credit.

Won't an attempt to crunch astropulse v6 pop up with a message along the lines of: your app_info.xml doesn't contain [something or other] for astropulse v6?

Yes, it should, but strange things happen. The live news is up on the front page now, and Eric's wording there is more careful and precise than this initial draft.

Thanks Richard.

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Message 1205589 - Posted: 13 Mar 2012, 23:45:38 UTC - in response to Message 1205585.  
Last modified: 14 Mar 2012, 0:03:07 UTC

So.. is it possible to download the stock exe and throw it into app_info? If so, where can this exe be acquired (and I'm assuming libfftw.dll is in the same place, if it is still needed), and would the addition to the app info look like:

<snip>

It would give me an opportunity to not only help build the baseline for the validators, but it would also give me a baseline to compare the new opt. app to, and provide a fresh start for my spreadsheet at the same time.

Before we start - actually, it wouldn't help the validators. As I just explained to Dave Stegner, it's the way you run them, not the apps you choose to run.

Yes, it would be possible. But I would ask you to edit out the app_info framework you posted. It doesn't have the application name, as you know, and the other filename is incomplete, too. If people try to fiddle around with it without exact guidance, they might end up in an even worse mess than when they started. Sorry, but I don't have time to solve that kind of problem as well.

Eric's warning is quite explicit. If you add the stock application name into your app_info.xml file, you may very well get zero credits for the initial work you do, and for an indefinite period afterwards. (I'm just saying that, in general, for the benefit of all readers. Some people are very keen on their credits, and I wouldn't want them to have their expectations dashed).

But, given that you wouldn't help the validators, and wouldn't get any credit, the rest of your idea would work. Your work would actually be validated and contribute to the science (E&OE), and you could certainly start building up your elapsed-time records prior to optimisation: if that interests you, feel free. I'm actually trying to fill in the gaps in your template as we speak - I need to know the correct numbers, too. But while I'm typing, I can't keep hitting the update button, and I haven't snagged any yet.

OK, that's done - nothing more to wait for.
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Message 1205592 - Posted: 13 Mar 2012, 23:47:59 UTC - in response to Message 1205569.  

... How does one run opti apps for GPU MB and stock apps for CPU AP ?

You can download stock app (link is for Windows/x86), copy the file to your project folder and edit app_info accordingly. I did that when AP 5.05 came to life. Tho, I'm not sure if you'd need ap_graphics_6.01_windows_intelx86.exe and 3 other related text files.

OTOH, it would probably be wise to listen what Eric and Richard have to say about it :-)

Who the hell is General Failure and why is he reading my harddisk?¿
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Richard Haselgrove Project Donor
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Message 1205593 - Posted: 13 Mar 2012, 23:52:00 UTC - in response to Message 1205592.  

... How does one run opti apps for GPU MB and stock apps for CPU AP ?

You can download stock app (link is for Windows/x86), copy the file to your project folder and edit app_info accordingly. I did that when AP 5.05 came to life. Tho, I'm not sure if you'd need ap_graphics_6.01_windows_intelx86.exe and 3 other related text files.

OTOH, it would probably be wise to listen what Eric and Richard have to say about it :-)

Richard says: please don't, at least until I edit in the third and final part of my reply to Cosmic_Ocean.
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Message 1205594 - Posted: 14 Mar 2012, 0:01:56 UTC - in response to Message 1205579.  

Hi Richard,
What about v7, I'm running anon as you know, what happens if I change the v7 option to yes?

Regards,
Cliff,
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Message 1205597 - Posted: 14 Mar 2012, 0:08:56 UTC - in response to Message 1205594.  

Hi Richard,
What about v7, I'm running anon as you know, what happens if I change the v7 option to yes?

Regards,

v7 applies to the SETI@home v7 application, which we know as MB. if you look at the Applications page, you'll see that section is (as yet) blank. I think they really are planning ahead and laying the foundation for that one, but don't expect to activate it just yet - one thing at a time, and all that. We've certainly not heard any whisper that it might be done in the immediate future.

So, to answer your direct question: nothing will happen. Sorry.
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Message 1205598 - Posted: 14 Mar 2012, 0:13:54 UTC

Eventual problem with AP 505 validation, now that we have 6.01 in the game. Just had one AP 505 validated, and the credit became appalingly low. Never seen this low credit for an AP before. Might this be some problems with the new validator?

wuid=937432877
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Message 1205600 - Posted: 14 Mar 2012, 0:18:31 UTC - in response to Message 1205598.  

Eventual problem with AP 505 validation, now that we have 6.01 in the game. Just had one AP 505 validated, and the credit became appalingly low. Never seen this low credit for an AP before. Might this be some problems with the new validator?

wuid=937432877


Oh i got only 50 cr month ago.
But i agree it could be a reason of the new app.

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Message 1205603 - Posted: 14 Mar 2012, 0:21:11 UTC - in response to Message 1205600.  
Last modified: 14 Mar 2012, 0:21:47 UTC

Eventual problem with AP 505 validation, now that we have 6.01 in the game. Just had one AP 505 validated, and the credit became appalingly low. Never seen this low credit for an AP before. Might this be some problems with the new validator?

wuid=937432877


Oh i got only 50 cr month ago.
But i agree it could be a reason of the new app.


Well, let's wait and see if all of my old AP's get this poor credit. If that's the case I will by God picket Berkeley :-)
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Message 1205604 - Posted: 14 Mar 2012, 0:22:07 UTC - in response to Message 1205598.  

Eventual problem with AP 505 validation, now that we have 6.01 in the game. Just had one AP 505 validated, and the credit became appalingly low. Never seen this low credit for an AP before. Might this be some problems with the new validator?

wuid=937432877

I don't think it should be related - the credits for AP_v505 and AP_v6 should be completely unrelated, and the v505 credit averages should be unchanged in the database.

But theory and practice don't necessarily match, as everyone here knows only too well. Not a lot we can do with a sample of one, but if you start to see a trend or other pattern emerging, it would be a good idea to start a separate thread to gather and share reports. They'll get lost in this one, and we're short of moderator cover to shift them around.
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Message 1205605 - Posted: 14 Mar 2012, 0:22:32 UTC - in response to Message 1205589.  
Last modified: 14 Mar 2012, 0:41:18 UTC

So.. is it possible to download the stock exe and throw it into app_info? If so, where can this exe be acquired (and I'm assuming libfftw.dll is in the same place, if it is still needed)?

Before we start - actually, it wouldn't help the validators. As I just explained to Dave Stegner, it's the way you run them, not the apps you choose to run.

Yes, it would be possible. But I would ask you to edit out the app_info framework you posted. It doesn't have the application name, as you know, and the other filename is incomplete, too. If people try to fiddle around with it without exact guidance, they might end up in an even worse mess than when they started. Sorry, but I don't have time to solve that kind of problem as well.

OK, that's done - nothing more to wait for.

Fixed, and thank you for knowledgeable answers.

edit1: I may just go ahead and run stock the right way, as long as the preferences actually work and I don't get sent a bunch of MB even though I don't have it enabled. I do want to see how much optimization there is.

edit2: Looks like it might actually work.. "no tasks sent", "no tasks are available for AstroPulse v6", "no tasks were available for the applications you have selected." I was used to seeing that before with an app_info, except there was an additional message of "your app_info does not contain a usable version of S@H Enhanced," which to me sounds like it was going to try to send me some even though it shouldn't. So now I wait to see if I can ever grab any of these shiny new APs.
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Message 1205607 - Posted: 14 Mar 2012, 0:26:58 UTC - in response to Message 1205604.  

Eventual problem with AP 505 validation, now that we have 6.01 in the game. Just had one AP 505 validated, and the credit became appalingly low. Never seen this low credit for an AP before. Might this be some problems with the new validator?

wuid=937432877

I don't think it should be related - the credits for AP_v505 and AP_v6 should be completely unrelated, and the v505 credit averages should be unchanged in the database.

But theory and practice don't necessarily match, as everyone here knows only too well. Not a lot we can do with a sample of one, but if you start to see a trend or other pattern emerging, it would be a good idea to start a separate thread to gather and share reports. They'll get lost in this one, and we're short of moderator cover to shift them around.


Well, I haven't got more than 123 505's in the system (74 in progress, 49 finished and waiting for wingman), but I'll keep an eye on them, and will start a new thread if I see a trend.
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Message 1205615 - Posted: 14 Mar 2012, 0:47:13 UTC - in response to Message 1205563.  

I got one. Look at my shiny new toy.

Hey, I got my own shiny new toy. I can die happy.

Seriously, the flood of queries seems to have died down, so I'll clock off and get some sleep soon. Just a small lemsip first, I think, and then to bed.
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Message 1205639 - Posted: 14 Mar 2012, 2:08:19 UTC - in response to Message 1205557.  

NEWS before it happens:

Email from Eric:

The big issue is if they [optimised app users] return their results before any from the official clients have been returned, it's hard to tell what will happen. I'd recommend that people using optimized apps turn off astropulse v6 processing for a couple weeks. I'll post a news item to that effect.

The reason being, that they aren't certain until it happens whether opt app users will get any credit. There was a bug at Beta which experienced testers will know all too well - zero credit. It cleared itself without intervention after a couple of months (slow turnover at Beta), but nobody quite knows why.

You have been warned: crunch stock, or (possibly) crunch for zero credit.


Well, there aren't any opt V6 released, so what else than stock could be run?

You, for instance, could copy the Beta stock application and add appropriate entries in your app_info.xml so the servers would know you had an Astropulse v6 application. But it would still be an anonymous platform application as far as the servers were concerned, and subject to the server bug if it is active here. The real issue with the bug is not that YOU get zero credit if you make the choice to try that way, it's that you may be forcing zero credit on all your wingmates.

=====================

The list of applications in the preferences will henceforth be the same list of apps shown on the Applications page. But an app record in the database which has no actual applications is just a placeholder, so the SETI@home v7 choice won't do anything for now. Having all listed gives those who have a strong preference the ability to set their preferences before getting work they didn't want. In fact, anyone who is using settings which prohibit some work must opt in if they want the new work. The default (all applications) mode will of course include the new work.

I very much doubt that SETI@home v7 will be released here soon. There are some changes in the source code which have not yet been built and tested at SETI Beta. But I'll cross my fingers and hope I'm right, otherwise we'll have a real difficult task trying to reproduce a certain stock buglet in the optimized code.
                                                                  Joe
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