Updating for upcoming apps.....

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LadyL
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Message 1207900 - Posted: 19 Mar 2012, 16:59:49 UTC

ETA for the v0.40 Lunatics installer is tomorrow, provided we get the green light from Eric, and I get all the information I need to put into the release notes.
If you were unhappy with those from last time for some reason, NOW is the time to tell me.
Constructive criticism only please. At my current stress levels anything else will find you on my ignore list.
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Message 1207934 - Posted: 19 Mar 2012, 17:59:45 UTC

Looking forward. I've gone ahead and set NNT and suspended all the "ready to start" APs I've got.

One thing I'm wondering about though is over on the tasks page where it shows the stock application, once I go over to anon. platform, will that update, or will tasks originally assigned to the stock app still show and count to the application details as stock even though they were done with optimized?
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Message 1207935 - Posted: 19 Mar 2012, 18:02:14 UTC

ETA for the v0.40 Lunatics installer is tomorrow, provided we get the green light from Eric, and I get all the information I need to put into the release notes.
If you were unhappy with those from last time for some reason, NOW is the time to tell me.
Constructive criticism only please. At my current stress levels anything else will find you on my ignore list.


Received and understood. Look forward.

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Message 1207946 - Posted: 19 Mar 2012, 18:09:01 UTC - in response to Message 1207934.  

Looking forward. I've gone ahead and set NNT and suspended all the "ready to start" APs I've got.

One thing I'm wondering about though is over on the tasks page where it shows the stock application, once I go over to anon. platform, will that update, or will tasks originally assigned to the stock app still show and count to the application details as stock even though they were done with optimized?

The webpage always displays what the tasks were assigned to. So once you switch to the anon platform only new tasks will be marked as such.
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Message 1207970 - Posted: 19 Mar 2012, 18:47:04 UTC - in response to Message 1207934.  
Last modified: 19 Mar 2012, 19:07:54 UTC

Looking forward. I've gone ahead and set NNT and suspended all the "ready to start" APs I've got.

One thing I'm wondering about though is over on the tasks page where it shows the stock application, once I go over to anon. platform, will that update, or will tasks originally assigned to the stock app still show and count to the application details as stock even though they were done with optimized?

The way to update the details on the task page is to reset the project after you're installed the Optimised apps,
(If you save your Wu files to somewhere safe before you reset the project, then restore them afterwards, you'll then skip the downloads as the Wu's are resent)
(It'll also mean those Optimised Wu's will go towards the anonymous platform APR instead of the Stock APR too)

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Message 1207972 - Posted: 19 Mar 2012, 18:48:53 UTC - in response to Message 1207946.  

The webpage always displays what the tasks were assigned to. So once you switch to the anon platform only new tasks will be marked as such.

Noted. After installing the new package when it is released, I'll just drop back down to a tiny cache to make sure I don't end up with more than I can handle. ETAs should be huge and slowly come down though.
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Message 1207973 - Posted: 19 Mar 2012, 18:52:54 UTC - in response to Message 1207946.  

Looking forward. I've gone ahead and set NNT and suspended all the "ready to start" APs I've got.

One thing I'm wondering about though is over on the tasks page where it shows the stock application, once I go over to anon. platform, will that update, or will tasks originally assigned to the stock app still show and count to the application details as stock even though they were done with optimized?

The webpage always displays what the tasks were assigned to. So once you switch to the anon platform only new tasks will be marked as such.

As Cosmic_Ocean is trying to keep clean statistics, and depending on circumstances, he might consider doing a project reset just before installing Lunatics. That clears all work, and work requests after the Lunatics install will get those tasks resent and assigned to the optimized app.

If the download pipe is saturated, that would probably not be a good move. But if the tasks were "resent" just before the Tuesday outage and the download servers remain enabled during the outage as has been usual lately, they would probably download fairly easily.

This is not a recommendation, just a possibility to consider.
                                                                  Joe
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Message 1207975 - Posted: 19 Mar 2012, 18:56:37 UTC - in response to Message 1207973.  

Looking forward. I've gone ahead and set NNT and suspended all the "ready to start" APs I've got.

One thing I'm wondering about though is over on the tasks page where it shows the stock application, once I go over to anon. platform, will that update, or will tasks originally assigned to the stock app still show and count to the application details as stock even though they were done with optimized?

The webpage always displays what the tasks were assigned to. So once you switch to the anon platform only new tasks will be marked as such.

As Cosmic_Ocean is trying to keep clean statistics, and depending on circumstances, he might consider doing a project reset just before installing Lunatics. That clears all work, and work requests after the Lunatics install will get those tasks resent and assigned to the optimized app.

If the download pipe is saturated, that would probably not be a good move. But if the tasks were "resent" just before the Tuesday outage and the download servers remain enabled during the outage as has been usual lately, they would probably download fairly easily.

This is not a recommendation, just a possibility to consider.
                                                                  Joe


Provided we are out before maintenance...
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Josef W. Segur
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Message 1208003 - Posted: 19 Mar 2012, 19:37:19 UTC - in response to Message 1207975.  
Last modified: 19 Mar 2012, 19:40:09 UTC

...If the download pipe is saturated, that would probably not be a good move. But if the tasks were "resent" just before the Tuesday outage and the download servers remain enabled during the outage as has been usual lately, they would probably download fairly easily.

This is not a recommendation, just a possibility to consider.
                                                                  Joe


Provided we are out before maintenance...

Good point, though of course the installer will be out before some Tuesday maintenance ;^)

A more complex alternative is to save all the WU files just before doing the project reset, then put them back after doing the Lunatics install. That way when they are "resent" the core client will find they're already there and not have to download again. I've never run 6.2.19 as Cosmic_Ocean is using, but AFAIK that ought to work.

The project reset does lose whatever partial crunching has been done on a task, of course. But it gives a clean transition that way.
                                                                  Joe
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Profile Michel448a
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Message 1208014 - Posted: 19 Mar 2012, 20:04:04 UTC
Last modified: 19 Mar 2012, 20:06:57 UTC

Which BOINC version you suggest to use ? still the 6.10.58 ? or go for the 6.12.34 ?

what s about the cc_fonfig and/or the app_info ?

EDIT:
plans: MB on CPU/GPU , AP505/6.01 ONLY on GPU.
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Message 1208037 - Posted: 19 Mar 2012, 21:33:22 UTC

The stats are easy enough to figure out. Since I have 7 tasks in the cache that have not started and are currently suspended, it is easy enough to cut & paste the entries in the spreadsheet from one worksheet to another. Or I can just type in the taskID and wuIDs again.

I did think about just running the cache down, but that will take about 2.5 days at the moment and.. well I don't want to wait that long. Besides, it would be nice to have something to crunch and a tiny bit of cache while the work requests endlessly try to get more tasks to fill the cache even more. Starting from an empty cache is rough and seems to take a lot longer to fill up than if you already have something in it.

The application details page will figure itself out. These 7 tasks that I have will end up going toward the stock tally from what I've interpreted, which may bring the APR up a bit for a comparison though. I'll just make a note of what the APR was in the spreadsheet when I switch apps so there's something to compare to, if average runtime isn't good enough.
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Message 1208183 - Posted: 20 Mar 2012, 9:08:24 UTC
Last modified: 20 Mar 2012, 9:10:19 UTC

Hi Joe, and other interested parties;
Couldn't post this in the most appropriate venue, and this seemed a ~ reasonable 2nd choice....D'tor if not, of course:

i7 3960@4.8 GHz, BOINC running Seti@Home, only


Ftst_v7 completed successfully.
=========================================================
Ftst_v7_J45 started.

Optimal function choices:
--------------------------------------------------------
name timing error
--------------------------------------------------------
v_BaseLineSmooth (no other)

v_GetPowerSpectrum 0.000084 0.00000 test
v_vGetPowerSpectrum 0.000042 0.00000 test
v_vGetPowerSpectrum2 0.000056 0.00000 test
v_vGetPowerSpectrumUnrolled 0.000039 0.00000 test
v_vGetPowerSpectrumUnrolled2 0.000060 0.00000 test
v_avxGetPowerSpectrum 0.000037 0.00000 test
v_avxGetPowerSpectrum 0.000037 0.00000 choice

v_ChirpData 0.003177 0.00000 test
fpu_ChirpData 0.008388 0.00000 test
fpu_opt_ChirpData 0.003173 0.00000 test
v_vChirpData_x86_64 0.040736 0.00000 test
sse1_ChirpData_ak 0.004972 0.00000 test
sse1_ChirpData_ak8e 0.004023 0.00000 test
sse1_ChirpData_ak8h 0.004222 0.00000 test
sse2_ChirpData_ak 0.004688 0.00000 test
sse2_ChirpData_ak8 0.003043 0.00000 test
sse3_ChirpData_ak 0.004506 0.00000 test
sse3_ChirpData_ak8 0.003041 0.00000 test
avx_ChirpData_a 0.001442 0.00000 test
avx_ChirpData_b 0.001636 0.00000 test
avx_ChirpData_c 0.001453 0.00000 test
avx_ChirpData_d 0.001338 0.00000 test
avx_ChirpData_d 0.001338 0.00000 choice

v_Transpose 0.002160 0.00000 test
v_Transpose2 0.002891 0.00000 test
v_Transpose4 0.001206 0.00000 test
v_Transpose8 0.002194 0.00000 test
v_pfTranspose2 0.001133 0.00000 test
v_pfTranspose4 0.001106 0.00000 test
v_pfTranspose8 0.002250 0.00000 test
v_vTranspose4 0.000594 0.00000 test
v_vTranspose4np 0.001025 0.00000 test
v_vTranspose4ntw 0.016963 0.00000 test
v_vTranspose4x8ntw 0.006324 0.00000 test
v_vTranspose4x16ntw 0.001870 0.00000 test
v_vpfTranspose8x4ntw 0.016348 0.00000 test
v_avxTranspose4x8ntw 0.006472 0.00000 test
v_avxTranspose4x16ntw 0.001450 0.00000 test
v_avxTranspose8x4ntw 0.016965 0.00000 test
v_avxTranspose8x8ntw_a 0.005262 0.00000 test
v_avxTranspose8x8ntw_b 0.005684 0.00000 test
v_vTranspose4 0.000594 0.00000 choice

FPU opt folding 0.001603 0.00000 test
AK SSE folding 0.000352 0.00000 test
BH SSE folding 0.000336 0.00000 test
JS AVX_a folding 0.000297 0.00000 test
JS AVX_c folding 0.000299 0.00000 test
JS AVX_a folding 0.000297 0.00000 choice

Test duration 3.30 seconds

Ftst_v7 completed successfully.
D
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Message 1208186 - Posted: 20 Mar 2012, 9:45:24 UTC - in response to Message 1208014.  

Which BOINC version you suggest to use ? still the 6.10.58 ? or go for the 6.12.34 ?


up to you. 6.10.58 is old but reliable. 6.12.34 has a few useful extra features and combined with SIV to stop it from going into excessive backoffs works fine.


what s about the cc_fonfig and/or the app_info ?


what about them? the installer generates a new app_info.xml according to the choices made on the installer screens. You have to redo flops, counts and other manual alterations.
cc_config.xml is completely independant.

EDIT:
plans: MB on CPU/GPU , AP505/6.01 ONLY on GPU.


You have NVidia GPUs. The installer doesn't have an NVidia AP app. The app is in beta and will be made availble separately (i.e. you'll have to do a manual install)

The installer will offer a choice of MB and AP for CPU, MB for NVidia and MB and AP for ATI.
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Message 1208198 - Posted: 20 Mar 2012, 10:59:28 UTC - in response to Message 1208186.  
Last modified: 20 Mar 2012, 11:20:39 UTC

The installer generates a new app_info.xml according to the choices made on the installer screens. You have to redo <flops>, <counts> and other manual alterations.

Why does the installer not insert <flops> lines? All it needs to know is the speed of the CPU and the GPU Peak GFLOPS of the slowest GPU both of which are almost trivial to get. It could easily use the code from BOINC.exe. Having worked out what the values should be it should then popup a panel with these as recommended values and the user should have options to use them, use different ones or not include <flops> at all.

Doing things this way would be far easier and less error prone that manually editing the app_info.xml.

I have not written code to get AMD/ATI flops, but I can't imagine it's any harder. Ideally the CPU benchmark would run threads on ALL the CPUs at the same time. The current BOINC code only seems to do one CPU at a time.

[GPU CUDA Information] <- SIV64X - System Information Viewer V4.28 Beta-01 RED::ray

              nVidia CUDA V4.10    Peak  Compute   CPUs and    Memory    Shader   Level 2   Current    Total   Threads  Registers CUDA   Cache    Stack   FIFO   Heap
|Bus-Numb-Fun| Device Name       GFLOPS  Capability Threads     Clock     Clock     Cache    Memory   Memory  per Block per Block API    Config    Size   Size   Size

[3 - 00 - 0]  GeForce GTX 460     683.6  V2.01      7 1,536   1.90GHz   1.53GHz     512KB     439MB   1.00GB     1,024    32,768  V3.20  None       1KB    1MB    8MB
[4 - 00 - 0]  GeForce GTX 460     683.6  V2.01      7 1,536   1.90GHz   1.53GHz     512KB     424MB   1.00GB     1,024    32,768  V3.20  None       1KB    1MB    8MB
[5 - 00 - 0]  GeForce GT 430      179.2  V2.01      2 1,536    700MHz   1.40GHz     128KB     359MB    512MB     1,024    32,768  V3.20  None       1KB    1MB    8MB
[7 - 00 - 0]  GeForce GT 520      103.7  V2.01      1 1,536    667MHz   1.62GHz      64KB     371MB    512MB     1,024    32,768  V3.20  None       1KB    1MB    8MB

[CPU Benchmark] <- SIV64X - System Information Viewer V4.28 Beta-01 RED::ray

SIV64X - CPU Dhrystone and Whetstone Benchmarks on \\RED - Windows 7 x64 Ultimate  V6.01  Build 7601  Service Pack 1

                        Intel Core i7 Extreme 980X (Gulftown) 3.33GHz [B1]

Include         Integer     Time     Floating     Time Include         Integer     Time     Floating     Time

[Y] CPU-0         5,524     2.07        3,529     2.01 [Y] CPU-1         5,546     2.07        3,557     2.00
[Y] CPU-2         5,520     2.06        3,457     2.00 [Y] CPU-3         5,590     2.04        3,529     2.01
[Y] CPU-4         5,636     1.98        3,507     2.00 [Y] CPU-5         5,554     2.07        3,529     2.01
[Y] CPU-6         5,441     1.92        3,507     2.00 [Y] CPU-7         5,546     2.06        3,529     2.01
[Y] CPU-8         5,537     2.07        3,557     2.00 [Y] CPU-9         5,471     2.07        3,429     2.01
[Y] CPU-10        5,537     2.07        3,483     1.98 [Y] CPU-11        5,558     2.01        3,529     2.01

[#############################################################################################################]

Elapsed 4.2  Total 66,460 + 42,142  Average 5,538 + 3,511  Minimum 5,441 + 3,429  Maximum 5,636 + 3,557  CPU Time 48.55

Include         Integer     Time     Floating     Time Include         Integer     Time     Floating     Time

[Y] CPU-0         8,689     2.07        3,678     2.01 [_] CPU-1                                             
[_] CPU-2                                              [_] CPU-3                                             
[_] CPU-4                                              [_] CPU-5                                             
[_] CPU-6                                              [_] CPU-7                                             
[_] CPU-8                                              [_] CPU-9                                             
[_] CPU-10                                             [_] CPU-11                                            

[#############################################################################################################]

Elapsed 4.2  Total 8,689 + 3,678  Average 8,689 + 3,678  Minimum 8,689 + 3,678  Maximum 8,689 + 3,678  CPU Time 4.09
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Message 1208209 - Posted: 20 Mar 2012, 11:36:26 UTC

Ray, believe me, if it was trivial, we'd be doing it.

The flops you put in are a measure of the app performance on the GPU not a static GPU value. They even fluctuate with AR.

The way the installer is written atm does not allow for simple insertion of values. We'd be looking at a complete revamp.
While that was something that 'would be nice to do' we simply don't have the resources.
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Message 1208218 - Posted: 20 Mar 2012, 12:03:02 UTC - in response to Message 1208209.  
Last modified: 20 Mar 2012, 12:54:13 UTC

Ray, believe me, if it was trivial, we'd be doing it.

The flops you put in are a measure of the app performance on the GPU not a static GPU value. They even fluctuate with AR.

The way the installer is written atm does not allow for simple insertion of values. We'd be looking at a complete revamp.
While that was something that 'would be nice to do' we simply don't have the resources.

I should have made it clear, it's only getting the raw flops values I consider trivial. As I have not looked at the installer code I would not comment on how hard it would be to change it.

I would expect the code to convert from GPU Peak GFLOPs to <flops> would not be too dificult given the data from a selection of GPUs. To get it started this is what I get for my GTX 460 and GT 520.

Currently <flops>6.0e09</flops> is being used.

20/03/2012 00:00:54 | | NVIDIA GPU 0: GeForce GTX 460 (driver version 28562, CUDA version 4010, compute capability 2.1, 1024MB, 684 GFLOPS peak)
20/03/2012 12:36:37 | SETI@home | [dcf] DCF: 1.133698->1.052642, raw_ratio 0.323136, adj_ratio 0.285029.

20/03/2012 00:00:54 | | NVIDIA GPU 3: GeForce GT 520 (driver version 28562, CUDA version 4010, compute capability 2.1, 512MB, 104 GFLOPS peak)
20/03/2012 12:40:11 | SETI@home | [dcf] DCF: 0.973314->1.841232, raw_ratio 1.841232, adj_ratio 1.891714

If you are wondering why my DCF is daft look at http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=67273
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Message 1208235 - Posted: 20 Mar 2012, 13:36:03 UTC
Last modified: 20 Mar 2012, 14:03:22 UTC

The updated installer is now ready, but I still haven't had a reply from Eric. We could see that they were having a bit of a struggle with the AP splitters yesterday, so maybe he was busy with that.

Also, we're getting close to Maintenance - earlier than normal for us Europeans, becuse DST changes aren't in step - and I wouldn't like to release when these message boards are down and we can't give technical support or receive reports of any problems. So it's looking like it'll be tomorrow before we do the full release. Sorry about that, folks.

In the meantime, 'Release Candidate' builds are available to Lunatics Beta testers - same place as before. Last chance to break it before we go live... ;P

Edit - I should have mentioned. I did get a reply from David Anderson - he still doesn't understand why we got zero credit in the first place (that shouldn't have happened). There may be some further breakages to fix before they're happy to see a mass influx of optimised apps.
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Message 1208246 - Posted: 20 Mar 2012, 15:19:17 UTC - in response to Message 1208186.  
Last modified: 20 Mar 2012, 15:20:32 UTC

THANKS YOU very much LadyL.

You explained to me very well and also it was extremly clear :)
but 2 more serial questions appeared from your answers :)


You have NVidia GPUs. The installer doesn't have an NVidia AP app. The app is in beta and will be made availble separately (i.e. you'll have to do a manual install)

The installer will offer a choice of MB and AP for CPU, MB for NVidia and MB and AP for ATI.


AP for ATI don't use OpenGL ? My Nvidia v-card do OpenGL as well, if not better than an ATI :P (cause its a Nvidia!) Your AP for ATI cant work on a real Nvidia, and why ?


2nd questions :)
I use presently 0.39 installer. The only difference between 0.39 and 0.40 is the optimized AP 6 for CPU by Lunatics ?
The optimized MB for CPU and GPU are exactly the same ones in .40 and .39 ?

Depending of answers of question ones and twos, if i am not planning to do AP on CPU, does it give me something to install 0.40 over my 0.39 ?


THANKS YOU SO MUCH LadyL for your clear answers :)
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Message 1208263 - Posted: 20 Mar 2012, 22:23:23 UTC - in response to Message 1208246.  

LadyL is offline just at the moment, but I'll try to live up to her high standards.

You have NVidia GPUs. The installer doesn't have an NVidia AP app. The app is in beta and will be made availble separately (i.e. you'll have to do a manual install)

The installer will offer a choice of MB and AP for CPU, MB for NVidia and MB and AP for ATI.

AP for ATI don't use OpenGL ? My Nvidia v-card do OpenGL as well, if not better than an ATI :P (cause its a Nvidia!) Your AP for ATI cant work on a real Nvidia, and why ?

Actually, neither of the applications uses the Open Graphics Library (OpenGL). They both use the Open Computing Language (OpenCL): and you are right, OpenCL is implemented on both the ATI and NVidia platforms. The actual scientific (crunching) programs are the same on both sets of hardware, but the management and control part of the program (running on the host CPU) has to be different.

The current situation is that the OpenCL developer (Raistmer) believes that the NVidia version of the AP program is complete, but testers are reporting problems with the implementation. Because we've been concentrating on incorporating the late v6.01 modification into the tried-and-tested ATI implementation, the NVidia version remains in Beta testing while we catch our breath.

2nd questions :)
I use presently 0.39 installer. The only difference between 0.39 and 0.40 is the optimized AP 6 for CPU by Lunatics ?
The optimized MB for CPU and GPU are exactly the same ones in .40 and .39 ?

Correct. Carry on using that until the dust settles on this rollout, and you are ready to choose which applications you wish to run. The updated application to run AP (the new version) on CPU is the only benefit you will find in the new installer.
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Message 1208267 - Posted: 20 Mar 2012, 22:31:12 UTC

LOL, just around the time that the new science applications are being released, do I get one v5.05 AP. I haven't had one in over 6 months. Serious coincidence. ;-)
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