Updating for upcoming apps.....

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Cosmic_Ocean
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Message 1206320 - Posted: 16 Mar 2012, 0:06:10 UTC

I don't know how many other people have started getting validated v6 tasks, but I got my first one. http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/workunit.php?wuid=949435827 591.58. Slightly lower than the 650-750 that 505 had as an average, but it's not ridiculously low like was suggested as a possibility.
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Message 1206322 - Posted: 16 Mar 2012, 0:20:30 UTC - in response to Message 1206320.  

I don't know how many other people have started getting validated v6 tasks, but I got my first one. http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/workunit.php?wuid=949435827 591.58. Slightly lower than the 650-750 that 505 had as an average, but it's not ridiculously low like was suggested as a possibility.


I hate to break it to you, but it looks like it took twice as long, to get that credit.
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Message 1206326 - Posted: 16 Mar 2012, 0:34:04 UTC - in response to Message 1206322.  
Last modified: 16 Mar 2012, 0:34:26 UTC

I don't know how many other people have started getting validated v6 tasks, but I got my first one. http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/workunit.php?wuid=949435827 591.58. Slightly lower than the 650-750 that 505 had as an average, but it's not ridiculously low like was suggested as a possibility.


I hate to break it to you, but it looks like it took twice as long, to get that credit.

and if had run annoymous platform then he would have done it faster, but would have got NO Credit.

Claggy
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Message 1206328 - Posted: 16 Mar 2012, 0:39:10 UTC - in response to Message 1206326.  

I don't know how many other people have started getting validated v6 tasks, but I got my first one. http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/workunit.php?wuid=949435827 591.58. Slightly lower than the 650-750 that 505 had as an average, but it's not ridiculously low like was suggested as a possibility.


I hate to break it to you, but it looks like it took twice as long, to get that credit.

and if had run annoymous platform then he would have done it faster, but would have got NO Credit.

Claggy

So we've "updated" to "outdated" already?:)

I thought these were Lunatics apps, but now I'm guessing that's just for upcoming MB.
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Message 1206336 - Posted: 16 Mar 2012, 0:55:45 UTC - in response to Message 1206328.  

I don't know how many other people have started getting validated v6 tasks, but I got my first one. http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/workunit.php?wuid=949435827 591.58. Slightly lower than the 650-750 that 505 had as an average, but it's not ridiculously low like was suggested as a possibility.


I hate to break it to you, but it looks like it took twice as long, to get that credit.

and if had run annoymous platform then he would have done it faster, but would have got NO Credit.

Claggy

So we've "updated" to "outdated" already?:)

I thought these were Lunatics apps, but now I'm guessing that's just for upcoming MB.

No, it's just that until there's enough Stock AP v6 validations, annoymous platform validations give both hosts Zero Credit, see my Beta host's validations from last Dec:

http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/beta/results.php?hostid=45274&offset=120&show_names=1&state=0&appid=14

Claggy
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Message 1206345 - Posted: 16 Mar 2012, 1:19:01 UTC - in response to Message 1206328.  

I don't know how many other people have started getting validated v6 tasks, but I got my first one. http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/workunit.php?wuid=949435827 591.58. Slightly lower than the 650-750 that 505 had as an average, but it's not ridiculously low like was suggested as a possibility.


I hate to break it to you, but it looks like it took twice as long, to get that credit.

and if had run annoymous platform then he would have done it faster, but would have got NO Credit.

Claggy

So we've "updated" to "outdated" already?:)

I thought these were Lunatics apps, but now I'm guessing that's just for upcoming MB.

No, MB is MB and AP is AP.

We haven't updated yet, because we're ahead of the project and they aren't ready for us yet. A certain amount of pump-priming has to take place, before everything is ready to rumble.
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Message 1206348 - Posted: 16 Mar 2012, 1:29:11 UTC - in response to Message 1206328.  

...
I thought these were Lunatics apps, but now I'm guessing that's just for upcoming MB.

Less and more. The project doesn't have the resources to make GPU applications, so the intent is that Lunatics GPU apps adapted as possible to suit a very broad range of GPUs will at some point be stock issue. The project does make their own CPU applications, so Lunatics contributions there are in the form of source code. None of that is set in stone, but would apply to both AP and MB.

The need for AP v6 came from a correction further back in the pipeline, and was intended to be a minimal change in the science application to adapt to a corrected dispersion sign. Eric took the opportunity to also add needed changes for reliable indication of which task runtimes should not be included in BOINC averages. But it was not an opportunity to add optimizations to the source code AFAIK.
                                                                   Joe
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Message 1206367 - Posted: 16 Mar 2012, 2:33:34 UTC
Last modified: 16 Mar 2012, 2:39:27 UTC

Since I managed to stir up three Seti gurus and only one understood what I was trying to say, I feel the need to apologize for two things. My noobness and my chronic talent for being far too laconic.

Joe nailed it. I thought Lunatics apps were being adopted across the board as stock and that Astro V6 was the first to roll out... My mistake. Now I know it's just for the GPU app:)

Thanx guys.

Edit:
Joe wrote:
But it was not an opportunity to add optimizations to the source code AFAIK.
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Message 1206387 - Posted: 16 Mar 2012, 3:35:53 UTC - in response to Message 1206148.  

I have two questions for those in the know about the new V6 AP apps.

1. Will there be an AP_V6 stock version available shortly for 32-bit Linux to go along with the Windows version?.

2. I see there is a beta version of the 64-bit Linux AP_v6 version now (R546). Once it leaves beta status, will there be a version compiled for 32-bit Linux based of the same source code, or alternatively, will a tarball be made available for Linux users to compile their own?

About your 2. Q :
There will be optimized 32bit and 64bit APv6 versions for Linux available as soon as the validator/credit issues here are called off.
The source code (r546) will be also available at lunatics. But don't expect a tarball, 7z compresses better these days.
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Message 1206530 - Posted: 16 Mar 2012, 8:17:54 UTC - in response to Message 1206320.  

I don't know how many other people have started getting validated v6 tasks, but I got my first one. http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/workunit.php?wuid=949435827 591.58. Slightly lower than the 650-750 that 505 had as an average, but it's not ridiculously low like was suggested as a possibility.

I've got one validated, a few more waiting for wingmen. http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/workunit.php?wuid=949515471
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Message 1206534 - Posted: 16 Mar 2012, 8:37:28 UTC

Speaking about AP v6. This workunit caught my attention. Look at _0, he got less that a day to finish.
That's strange, haven't seen it in any of my other AP v6.
http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/workunit.php?wuid=949641584
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Profile Cliff Harding
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Message 1206573 - Posted: 16 Mar 2012, 13:17:03 UTC - in response to Message 1206063.  

That's the server telling you and showing up in log. The option is whether to be told in the notices tab. (plus all the ballon stuff, if not disabled)

Thank you. I guessed that might be the case but I feel they should not be there at all.

I wonder, do systems such as http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/show_host_detail.php?hostid=6311481 get similar messages telling them to update to a sensible version of BOINC? If not then they should!


He seeems to be doing something right. If you look at his tasks, he has six AP6 v6.01 in the mill. Two got d/l'ed with errors, two in progress, and two that are completed and validated. All with BOINC 4.45.0 running stock apps.


I don't buy computers, I build them!!
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Message 1206621 - Posted: 16 Mar 2012, 16:03:43 UTC - in response to Message 1206534.  

Speaking about AP v6. This workunit caught my attention. Look at _0, he got less that a day to finish.
That's strange, haven't seen it in any of my other AP v6.
http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/workunit.php?wuid=949641584

A well known side effect of the resend lost work mechanism is that an MB .vlar task may be expired immediately when the Scheduler is checking whether it can resend the task to a CUDA GPU, see message 1112328. This is probably the same thing, an AP v6 task also cannot be sent to a CUDA GPU.
                                                                   Joe
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Message 1206644 - Posted: 16 Mar 2012, 17:27:49 UTC - in response to Message 1206160.  

I have two questions for those in the know about the new V6 AP apps.

1. Will there be an AP_V6 stock version available shortly for 32-bit Linux to go along with the Windows version?.

According to the Applications page, both Linux/x86 (32 bit) and Linux/x86_64 are already installed and available as stock apps. You can be the first to try them!

2. I see there is a beta version of the 64-bit Linux AP_v6 version now (R546). Once it leaves beta status, will there be a version compiled for 32-bit Linux based of the same source code, or alternatively, will a tarball be made available for Linux users to compile their own?

I'm Windows only, I'm afraid. I haven't seen anything from the linux guys yet - which isn't to say they haven't posted, just that I may have missed it in the rush. I'll ask them in their coding dungeon, and see if I can entice them to post here.


The link you mentioned, http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/apps.php, indicates at the top of that page that “The current version of the application will be downloaded to your computer. This happens automatically; you don't have to do anything”

After almost 24 hours it still hasn’t downloaded. The message I receive is:

“Message from server: Your app_info.xml file doesn't have a usable version of AstroPulse v6.”

Perhaps the “you don’t have to do anything” statement only applies to Window downloads?????

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Message 1206645 - Posted: 16 Mar 2012, 17:35:22 UTC - in response to Message 1206644.  

Perhaps the “you don’t have to do anything” statement only applies to Window downloads?????

No, it applies to downloads of the stock applications, from which you have refrained by using an app_info.xml (anonymous platform).

Gruß,
Gundolf
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Message 1206647 - Posted: 16 Mar 2012, 17:46:10 UTC - in response to Message 1206644.  

The link you mentioned, http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/apps.php, indicates at the top of that page that “The current version of the application will be downloaded to your computer. This happens automatically; you don't have to do anything”

After almost 24 hours it still hasn’t downloaded. The message I receive is:

“Message from server: Your app_info.xml file doesn't have a usable version of AstroPulse v6.”

Perhaps the “you don’t have to do anything” statement only applies to Window downloads?????

Any host which has an app_info.xml is not eligible to get stock applications automatically. Stock applications are made for a specific platform, going anonymous platform means the user must supply the applications and tell BOINC what work they can do. For AP v6 that is not yet a good thing to do, it causes zero credit grants for both the anonymous platform host and the wingmate.

The page I linked indicates how to go back to a stock configuration, which would allow the stock Linux app to be automatically delivered.
                                                                  Joe
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Message 1206648 - Posted: 16 Mar 2012, 17:51:01 UTC - in response to Message 1206644.  

I have two questions for those in the know about the new V6 AP apps.

1. Will there be an AP_V6 stock version available shortly for 32-bit Linux to go along with the Windows version?.

According to the Applications page, both Linux/x86 (32 bit) and Linux/x86_64 are already installed and available as stock apps. You can be the first to try them!

2. I see there is a beta version of the 64-bit Linux AP_v6 version now (R546). Once it leaves beta status, will there be a version compiled for 32-bit Linux based of the same source code, or alternatively, will a tarball be made available for Linux users to compile their own?

I'm Windows only, I'm afraid. I haven't seen anything from the linux guys yet - which isn't to say they haven't posted, just that I may have missed it in the rush. I'll ask them in their coding dungeon, and see if I can entice them to post here.


The link you mentioned, http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/apps.php, indicates at the top of that page that “The current version of the application will be downloaded to your computer. This happens automatically; you don't have to do anything”

After almost 24 hours it still hasn’t downloaded. The message I receive is:

“Message from server: Your app_info.xml file doesn't have a usable version of AstroPulse v6.”

Perhaps the “you don’t have to do anything” statement only applies to Window downloads?????

No. BOINC has two quite separate modes of operation, both of which apply across all platforms - Windows, Linux, Mac, and sometimes others too.

The first, and commonest, is what we refer to in shorthand as "stock" applications. These are what new users receive automatically when they first join a project. The line you quote from the Applications page was written with that distribution method in mind - appropriately, since it's attached to a listing of the current stock applications. Replacements and updates for stock applications are indeed distributed automatically through BOINC's internal mechanisms.

The second mode of operation is called "Anonymous platform". It is intended to allow people to compile and run their own applications for unusual hardware or operating systems - SPARC processors running Solaris, for example. But we make use of it here to allow the distribution of third-party optimised applications for mainstream operating systems too.

The fact that your message refers to "Your app_info.xml file" means that you're already running under the Anonymous Platform mechanism - although you probably didn't know it by that name. The app_info.xml file is an essential part of the Anonymous Platform system - you'll see those words alongside your allocated tasks on this web site.

Because the Anonymous Platform mechanism is designed to support applications unknown to the project, it bypasses and disables the automatic distribution channel. Completely, I'm afraid - once you install an app_info.xml file, no new applications will be downloaded automatically. All future updating becomes your responsibility. That's why we encourage people - perhaps not as often as we should - to keep visiting these message boards for updated information after they install any optimised application.
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Message 1206663 - Posted: 16 Mar 2012, 19:06:49 UTC - in response to Message 1206621.  

Speaking about AP v6. This workunit caught my attention. Look at _0, he got less that a day to finish.
That's strange, haven't seen it in any of my other AP v6.
http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/workunit.php?wuid=949641584

A well known side effect of the resend lost work mechanism is that an MB .vlar task may be expired immediately when the Scheduler is checking whether it can resend the task to a CUDA GPU, see message 1112328. This is probably the same thing, an AP v6 task also cannot be sent to a CUDA GPU.
                                                                   Joe

Might be. Though I have never seen it on an AP workunit.
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Message 1206666 - Posted: 16 Mar 2012, 19:10:48 UTC - in response to Message 1206663.  
Last modified: 16 Mar 2012, 19:11:20 UTC

Speaking about AP v6. This workunit caught my attention. Look at _0, he got less that a day to finish.
That's strange, haven't seen it in any of my other AP v6.
http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/workunit.php?wuid=949641584

A well known side effect of the resend lost work mechanism is that an MB .vlar task may be expired immediately when the Scheduler is checking whether it can resend the task to a CUDA GPU, see message 1112328. This is probably the same thing, an AP v6 task also cannot be sent to a CUDA GPU.
                                                                   Joe

Might be. Though I have never seen it on an AP workunit.

At present there are no VLAR AP tasks. Only MB tasks have that distinction.
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Message 1206670 - Posted: 16 Mar 2012, 19:18:59 UTC - in response to Message 1206648.  

Hi Richard,
I wonder could the server perhaps be used to send at leat one warning message to that effect when it 1st detects an app_info.xml file?
And maybe repeat the warning whenever a new stock app is being distributed.

Make more sense than the current and too oft repeated you dont have a valid app in your app_info.xml file:-)

Perhaps it should send, "you are using an app_info.xml file and should check to see if there are updated apps for your system."

Regards,
Cliff,
Been there, Done that, Still no damm T shirt!
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Message boards : Number crunching : Updating for upcoming apps.....


 
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