Updating for upcoming apps.....

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Cosmic_Ocean
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Message 1205644 - Posted: 14 Mar 2012, 2:31:43 UTC - in response to Message 1205615.  

I got one. Look at my shiny new toy.

Hey, I got my own shiny new toy. I can die happy.

Yay, I got one, too. Only took about 15 work requests. All the files needed were downloaded, as well (as expected, of course). Initial estimate is/was ~125 hours, but the ETA is dropping by ~5 seconds per second, so a rough early estimate is ~25 hours for stock on my system, when r409 was doing about 11 hours.
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Message 1205656 - Posted: 14 Mar 2012, 3:39:19 UTC - in response to Message 1205598.  

Eventual problem with AP 505 validation, now that we have 6.01 in the game. Just had one AP 505 validated, and the credit became appalingly low. Never seen this low credit for an AP before. Might this be some problems with the new validator?

wuid=937432877

I've copped that a few times now when partnered with ATi/AMD video cards, I feel your pain. :(

Cheers.
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Message 1205682 - Posted: 14 Mar 2012, 6:04:19 UTC - in response to Message 1205502.  

Nice but if they where smart I guess they should have removed the AP v5 app.

There will still be reissues running about for some time. I suppose that still gives folks the option of accepting them, or if they wish to receive the new apps only.

Is there really any left? Didn't know that.

Prolly not, John....LOL.
My bad, I was thinking 505, not 5....
V5 probably could go, if there were any still lurking, they could be sent out to folks accepting 'other' than selected tasks.

My, but my thread got busy whilst I was away at work.....
No wonder, what with AP splitting back up again.
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Message 1205691 - Posted: 14 Mar 2012, 6:37:16 UTC
Last modified: 14 Mar 2012, 6:38:38 UTC

Sooooo, and I don't prefer AP, but run it if sent when nothing else is available....
Am I to understand that all AP work split from this point is V6?
If so, I should not be getting any more AP, other than perhaps a few reissues, as I am opti, and have no V6 app.

Is the download size of a V6 WU the same as a 505? And, has, as one poster alluded to, the crunch time been increased to the point that AP V6 will be a boon rather than a bane to bandwidth usage? (Crunch time VS download size).

The kitties wanna know....LOL.
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Dave Stegner
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Message 1205693 - Posted: 14 Mar 2012, 6:51:02 UTC

Mark,

The one's I have from Beta are 8,196K, same as 5.05.


Dave

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Message 1205694 - Posted: 14 Mar 2012, 7:04:53 UTC - in response to Message 1205693.  
Last modified: 14 Mar 2012, 7:05:33 UTC

Mark,

The one's I have from Beta are 8,196K, same as 5.05.


OK, any difference in the crunch times noted yet?
"Learn from yesterday. Live for today. Hope for tomorrow." Albert Einstein
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Dave Stegner
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Message 1205698 - Posted: 14 Mar 2012, 7:19:33 UTC


My machines do CPU with opti apps in about 17-18 hours.

Only stock is available yet, they take 48 hours or so.

Don't think I can answer your question based on that.

Not sure what the change from 5.05 to 6.0 is.

I have read in other threads that 6.01 is not really diff from 6.0, only that is is passing info to validator that can identify early exit.

Quote from Josef in Beta:
/quote
To add some detail, the changes from version 6.00 to version 6.01 of Astropulse v6 do not affect the science processing. What is being tested now is the Validator ability to tell BOINC when the run time of a task should not be included in the averages. That depends on 6.01 reporting the fraction_done as well as the fraction_blanked which earlier versions already reported.

The fraction_done is specifically needed when a task finishes early because there have been 30 repetitive AND 30 single pulses found. Those cases are rare and unpredictable.
Joe
quote/




Dave

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Message 1205699 - Posted: 14 Mar 2012, 7:27:04 UTC - in response to Message 1205698.  

OK...if true, then V6 will not be any better than 505 in terms of bandwidth usage.

However, the change you are noting is, as I understand it, the last step before limits can be raised since the Boinc code boondoggle that made them necessary.

I hope that is a positive sign, and the limits can be raised or lifted once the proper functioning of the new AP validator and app have been verified.
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Dave Stegner
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Message 1205700 - Posted: 14 Mar 2012, 7:29:07 UTC

That would be nice.


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Message 1205701 - Posted: 14 Mar 2012, 7:31:17 UTC - in response to Message 1205700.  
Last modified: 14 Mar 2012, 7:32:03 UTC

That would be nice.


Would sure make the kitties sleep more comfortably....LOL.
And you know how much kitties luv their sleepy time.
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Richard Haselgrove Project Donor
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Message 1205718 - Posted: 14 Mar 2012, 9:36:21 UTC - in response to Message 1205699.  

OK...if true, then V6 will not be any better than 505 in terms of bandwidth usage.

However, the change you are noting is, as I understand it, the last step before limits can be raised since the Boinc code boondoggle that made them necessary.

I hope that is a positive sign, and the limits can be raised or lifted once the proper functioning of the new AP validator and app have been verified.

Yes, from what I understand of the changes, the normal download size and runtime of AP_v6 is still the same. However, they have been working on the splitters to try and reduce the number of '100% blanked' and '30/30 exit' tasks that get sent out. Overall, that should reduce the bandwidth usage - particularly, in those bursts when a tape with the stuck data bit gets split and all tasks are uncrunchable.

And yes, the hope is very much that this will eventually allow the project to lift the limits. It is, however, the first (but most difficult) step rather than the last. The next stage - once this one has been tested, of course - will see runtime estimates and DCF return to more stable values: and then finally, there will be no need for the limits any more - we hope.
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Message 1205726 - Posted: 14 Mar 2012, 10:14:29 UTC - in response to Message 1205597.  

Hi Richard,
OK, as long as I know that in fact there is no v7 as such right now and can ignore it:-)

Regards,
Cliff,
Been there, Done that, Still no damm T shirt!
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Message 1205733 - Posted: 14 Mar 2012, 10:54:39 UTC
Last modified: 14 Mar 2012, 10:57:38 UTC

Re: app versions

Multi-beam v7
As I understand it there is no optimized CPU multi-beam app at the moment, but there was one being tested I thought by Raistmer. The current x41g cuda multi-beam is considered "v7 ready". Not sure about OpenCL multi-beam app.

Astropulse v6
I gather there is only the stock app and there isn't an optimized v6 app

Could one of the more knowledgeable people (Richard, Joe, Jason or Raistmer) correct me if I am wrong please.
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Message 1205735 - Posted: 14 Mar 2012, 11:26:27 UTC - in response to Message 1205733.  

Re: app versions

Multi-beam v7
As I understand it there is no optimized CPU multi-beam app at the moment, but there was one being tested I thought by Raistmer. The current x41g cuda multi-beam is considered "v7 ready". Not sure about OpenCL multi-beam app.

Astropulse v6
I gather there is only the stock app and there isn't an optimized v6 app

Could one of the more knowledgeable people (Richard, Joe, Jason or Raistmer) correct me if I am wrong please.

As it happens, development and testing work on Multi-beam v7 is proceeding in synch on both the stock and optimised versions of the application. But the changes are bigger in this app, and it's nowhere near ready for prime-time yet. When the stock v7 is released here (it hasn't been yet), optimised apps will follow a few days later, as usual.

Much the same applies to Astropulse v6, except the changes are smaller, and development work on this overtook v7. The stock apps are out: optimised versions were developed in parallel at the same time, and are in final testing.

This is the first major application release at SETI since CreditNew was introduced two years ago. We've seen odd behaviour at Beta, with zero credit being awarded to applications running under anonymous platform. For that reason, we're going to be very cautious about releasing the optimised applications, following Eric's advice on the front page.

There will be a few mine-canaries running optimised apps here, to probe whether the credit bug is actually as serious as we think it is. If you meet a mine canary and get bitten by it, with zero credit for a stock task, please accept our apologies in advance - but I hope you understand why we're doing it.
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Message 1205736 - Posted: 14 Mar 2012, 11:33:43 UTC - in response to Message 1205733.  
Last modified: 14 Mar 2012, 11:38:48 UTC

Re: app versions

Multi-beam v7
As I understand it there is no optimized CPU multi-beam app at the moment, but there was one being tested I thought by Raistmer. The current x41g cuda multi-beam is considered "v7 ready". Not sure about OpenCL multi-beam app.

Astropulse v6
I gather there is only the stock app and there isn't an optimized v6 app

Could one of the more knowledgeable people (Richard, Joe, Jason or Raistmer) correct me if I am wrong please.


optimised MB7 apps are ready to go (more or less, we're still testing) CPU, CUDA (x41g or x41u), ATI OpenCL (r455).
edit: that's presuming Eric doesn't do more changes, in which case we obviously have to update as well.
Until Kepler is out and somebody here got their hands on one, we cannot be certain if x41g/u works on them.

optimised AP v6 are in beta testing on Beta. [or will be when I can get round to put up the AVX CPU app]
An updated installer is in preparation, but will not be released until we have established that credit will be granted.
Depending on the credit picture we may prerelease the apps, should we still need more beta testing, prior to installer release.
Until then only very cautious Alpha will occur on main, we may be prepared to get no credit, but we are not going to let our wingman suffer any more than necessary to establish whether or not credit granting is working.

Richard beat me to it.
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Message 1205743 - Posted: 14 Mar 2012, 12:15:29 UTC - in response to Message 1205694.  

Mark,

The one's I have from Beta are 8,196K, same as 5.05.


OK, any difference in the crunch times noted yet?

From my Benches of Stock AP v6 6.01, it is a little bit faster than the Stock v505 5.05 app, but not much,

Claggy
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Message 1205745 - Posted: 14 Mar 2012, 12:41:02 UTC

Thanks for the replies both Richard and LadyL.

While I am not concerned with credit I am sure some users are. I wanted to get an idea what apps I need to update which is why I asked about the versions. Any idea on timeframes for the app roll out?
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Message 1205752 - Posted: 14 Mar 2012, 13:18:23 UTC - in response to Message 1205745.  

Thanks for the replies both Richard and LadyL.

While I am not concerned with credit I am sure some users are. I wanted to get an idea what apps I need to update which is why I asked about the versions. Any idea on timeframes for the app roll out?

Eric is suggesting a two week evaluation period, just to be sure. I hope it might be quicker than that, but we won't know until the mine canaries report back.
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Message 1205821 - Posted: 14 Mar 2012, 16:32:15 UTC - in response to Message 1205718.  

Yes, from what I understand of the changes, the normal download size and runtime of AP_v6 is still the same. However, they have been working on the splitters to try and reduce the number of '100% blanked' and '30/30 exit' tasks that get sent out.

B3_P1's are still going out for v6. http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/workunit.php?wuid=949571942 Can't there just simply be some logic that says "oh, it is B3_P1, skip it and don't bother sending it out." ? B3_P1 has been bad for years with no news of a near-future fix. Can't they just skip it server-side and save the bandwidth and disk space?
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Message 1205832 - Posted: 14 Mar 2012, 17:00:26 UTC - in response to Message 1205821.  

Yes, from what I understand of the changes, the normal download size and runtime of AP_v6 is still the same. However, they have been working on the splitters to try and reduce the number of '100% blanked' and '30/30 exit' tasks that get sent out.

B3_P1's are still going out for v6. http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/workunit.php?wuid=949571942 Can't there just simply be some logic that says "oh, it is B3_P1, skip it and don't bother sending it out." ? B3_P1 has been bad for years with no news of a near-future fix. Can't they just skip it server-side and save the bandwidth and disk space?

I think that's one of the improvements in the AP_v6 splitter, and hence (at least partly) the reason for this release. The splitters should spot more of this type of problem before the work gets sent out, and limit the wastage that way.

With those very fast exits, it's mainly the project which suffers (by congestion), not the user. BTW, the B3_P1 channel often fails - strangely, usually at the same time of year - but isn't permanently kaput - it works sometimes. We need, and they should now have, more sophisticated decision-making than that.
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Message boards : Number crunching : Updating for upcoming apps.....


 
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