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Message 1446257 - Posted: 24 Nov 2013, 11:20:07 UTC

A very interesting report regarding Scotland's independence.

Should Scotland look north

"Fraser Nelson, the Scottish editor of the far-from-left-wing London weekly The Spectator, looks to Sweden for inspiration, and wishes David Cameron would have the guts to be as right wing in some of his thinking as the Swedes are."

Naw, he's too busy calling his colleagues idle gits :)
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Message 1446350 - Posted: 24 Nov 2013, 18:49:47 UTC

Don't want to get stuck on either side in this debate, but it is interesting to note that there have been several TV and newspaper stories in Canada about how various leaders of the Scottish independence movement have been visiting Quebec and studying the Quebec independence movements for years. It would appear to this outside observer that the canny Scots are just repeating the program that has worked so well in Quebec for 100+ years:

1. Find some minor annoyance with the government, and convince the populous it is the central government's fault, and that Quebec gets the worst of it.
2. Whip up local support for this thesis in Quebec, playing the racist/"nationalist" card.
3. Stage a referendum or similar, that barely gives the local government a mandate to "negotiate" independence with the federal government.
4. Use this to squeeze the federal government for everything you can.
5. Lie low until some minor annoyance crops up again, then go back to step one.

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Message 1446401 - Posted: 24 Nov 2013, 21:19:23 UTC - in response to Message 1446387.  

Well yes, if you try hard enough you can make any arbitrary set of rules appear to apply to any circumstances.

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Message 1446427 - Posted: 24 Nov 2013, 22:35:35 UTC

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/scottish-independence-sterling-expulsion-warning-1-3198888

The UK government will not let Scotland retain sterling if it votes for independence, Scottish Secretary Alistair Carmichael has said, in the starkest statement yet from Westminster about the nation’s currency future.

Mr Carmichael said the Scottish Government should not assume it will be allowed to use the currency if Scots vote to leave the UK next year. He said that a deal “is not going to happen”.

The warning comes days before the Scottish Government unveils its blueprint for independence in a white paper which is expected to advocate Scotland keeping the pound in the event of a Yes vote.

First Minister Alex Salmond has consistently maintained that “we will retain the pound” after independence.

The Scottish Government said last night the pound “is as much Scotland’s as it is the rest of the UK’s” and that it had put forward “sensible proposals”.

This is akin to Scotland saying to Westminster, "Mum, I wont to leave home but
will you pick up my bills if I run in to debt". Regards the Scottish government
stating that, "The Pound is as much Scotland's as it is the rest of UK's".
Correct, but only because you are part of the Union. But once you leave the
Union then naturally your out of the common currency too.
Simply because the pound is the single Union currency hence controlled centrally by one body.
That body is the Bank of England regulated by and in cohorts with the exchequer.
He who controls the purse strings controls the whole household. So for a
Scotland wishing to opt for the pound will first have to relinquish control over
much of it's finances and under no conditions will they be permitted to issue
bonds. Under the pound an independent Scotland would be dead in the water and
in no position to set itself interest rates matched to it's economy. To take
on the pound will have the same effect upon Scotland as that felt by the PIGS
having to share the same interest rates and currency values with those of
Germany........a total mismatch.


The Kite Fliers

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Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.
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Message 1446543 - Posted: 25 Nov 2013, 11:25:39 UTC - in response to Message 1446542.  

If the Scots get Independence, everything would have to be rewritten and reprinted as "The United Kingdom of Britain and Northern Ireland". Not for everyday use obviously, but in legislation going through Parliament, and in international matters, it may have to be a legal requirement.


Well it will sure help the economy and that deficit.

40 million new passports required at £70 a throw.
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Message 1446560 - Posted: 25 Nov 2013, 13:04:26 UTC - in response to Message 1446542.  

What currency would Scotland use while they negotiate to join the EU?
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Message 1446562 - Posted: 25 Nov 2013, 13:31:55 UTC - in response to Message 1446560.  

What currency would Scotland use while they negotiate to join the EU?


Oats.

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Message 1446564 - Posted: 25 Nov 2013, 13:35:15 UTC - in response to Message 1446562.  

What currency would Scotland use while they negotiate to join the EU?


Oats.


As long as it's only the best quality of course
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Message 1446590 - Posted: 25 Nov 2013, 15:04:33 UTC - in response to Message 1446584.  
Last modified: 25 Nov 2013, 15:49:09 UTC

But then wouldn't that be an objection to the union in the first place?

Isn't that what used to be called "Treachery"

Edit:

Whatever angle one looks at it, trouble lies ahead
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Message 1446620 - Posted: 25 Nov 2013, 16:50:15 UTC - in response to Message 1446584.  
Last modified: 25 Nov 2013, 16:51:20 UTC

I'll give a guess that in the final vote, it will be about 70% no and 30% yes. What it will do of course, is give a signal to Westminster that Scotland wants increased devolution and more powers to run its own affairs. Which is exactly what all this has been about in the first place.


Personally, a yes vote should be taken by Westminster as a vote of confidence
by the Scots in how they are dealt with by the Union as a whole. To this end
then no further devolutionary discussion should be countenanced with the
Scottish parliament. If more devolved powers to Scotland does get on the agenda
between Westminster and Scotland then Scotland must be excluded from voting on
issue that involve England, Wales and Northern Ireland only.
The Kite Fliers

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Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.
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Message 1446794 - Posted: 25 Nov 2013, 22:32:20 UTC - in response to Message 1446635.  
Last modified: 25 Nov 2013, 22:45:02 UTC

Alex Salmond and the SNP are no different from UKIP. They have both emerged as the protest vote in UK politics. Both are enjoying a renaissance at the moment. good luck to both of them, it won't last.


If so then that's down to the three main parties creating a need within the
electorate's for protest parties, to seek and support, in the first place.
The world of politics is an ever evolving place. If parties fail to evolve
in line with that of the electorate then new parties will come along to challenge
the old ones with their old ideas and ways....as is currently happening today.
This is the reason behind the formation of the Labour party, I suspect, before
the last century. I have searched for newspaper articles covering the period
that the Labour party was first formed. Very little is available in print from
that time for I was interested to read the then current popular views aired
about the party. I was mainly interested in finding out if the Labour party
was viewed back then as a protest party for the workers....I do wonder?
The Kite Fliers

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Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.
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Message 1446969 - Posted: 26 Nov 2013, 11:07:46 UTC

Scottish independence: SNP launches referendum blueprint

And i haven't read any of it, just taking a delayed tea break.
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Message 1446979 - Posted: 26 Nov 2013, 11:51:27 UTC - in response to Message 1446977.  

Since when did 16 year olds become capable of deciding their own future, let alone that of a country? If they are relying upon headstrong teenagers to see them through, then god help them.


So in other words, you're stating that you were a useless headstrong teenager at 16?

Typical old fogey, tarring everyone with the same brush. Many in our local community back then knew what we wanted at 16 and on hitting 17, did what we set out to do.

That was to serve in the Armed Forces so that made us headstrong did it?
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Message 1447004 - Posted: 26 Nov 2013, 15:12:09 UTC - in response to Message 1447000.  

First you may be correct. However, look to the last 20 years at least, there have been many who set themselves an aim from an age earlier than 16 and went out to achieve them.

As for remembering back, yes I can. I knew as did others what we would do that year and what we would do on hitting 17 and it happened exactly the way we wanted it.

What should have been stated was either 'majority or most' To categorise a specific group and label them speaks volumes.
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Message 1447025 - Posted: 26 Nov 2013, 16:33:44 UTC

Re: Scotland and Oil, I see that as in the last push for independence in the late 70's, the northern Isles are not particularly happy with the situation.

It would appear they are discussing their options. Staying with UK or Scotland, Further devolution from Scotland or total independence.
Not mentioned in the article but there was last time discussions about returning to their roots, Norway. They are Vikings after all.

Shetland News, Scottish Independence Debate

In other words Scotland keep your sticky mitts off of our oil.
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Message 1447051 - Posted: 26 Nov 2013, 17:26:45 UTC - in response to Message 1447031.  

If Shetland was to push it I could see the Orkneys joining them. I know very little about the politics of the Hebrides, I understand they are a strange bunch, and have heard that they have more in common with Ireland than Scotland. But they do make some fine whiskey.
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Message 1447422 - Posted: 27 Nov 2013, 15:43:39 UTC - in response to Message 1446979.  

So in other words, you're stating that you were a useless headstrong teenager at 16?

Typical old fogey, tarring everyone with the same brush. Many in our local community back then knew what we wanted at 16 and on hitting 17, did what we set out to do.

That was to serve in the Armed Forces so that made us headstrong did it?

The only thing i remember being interested in at 16 was copping off with Lucinda Hitchens. At 17 my only interest was learning to drive. Even at 18 i was only really interested in getting into University. It's only in the last few years i've taken any interest in how things are run. So based on myself, i could probably justify raising the voting age to 21.
Life on earth is the global equivalent of not storing things in the fridge.
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Message 1447431 - Posted: 27 Nov 2013, 16:31:28 UTC - in response to Message 1447063.  

Most parts of Scotland produce some world beating single malt whiskies. Whisky is of course Scottish, Whiskey with an e is Irish, and the whole lot are generically known as Scotch. My palate won't take neat Scots whisky , but a Jamesons and ice I really do like :-)

Not sure where you found an Irish connection to the Hebrides, it seems that they have a Celtic and Norse background. Hebrides


Because the Celtic connection is the same as the Irish/Manx brand of Celtic language/tradition, while the remainder of Scots are of Pict descent and along with parts or Northumbria and Cumbria have a different Celtic language/tradition.
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