Independent Scotland

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Message 1192911 - Posted: 9 Feb 2012, 18:00:07 UTC - in response to Message 1192908.  

Personally, I can't understand their reasoning. With all the closures of RN & RAF bases in Scotland & with North Sea reserves dwindling, what's left that will enable them to compete with the rest of the UK & indeed, Europe?

I don't think Whiskey exports will keep them going.


They don't have a diverse enough industry to survive and mix-it with the
rest of the world. Scotland will rely on the rest of the UK in supplying
jobs for them south of the boarder. The biggest risk to Scottish independence
causing strife to Scotland itself would be if the rest of the UK was to
up-sticks and leave the ECM.



I like your thought processes Nick. It would be nice if we had any gutsy politician that would stand up & do that should Scotland gain independance.
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Message 1192925 - Posted: 9 Feb 2012, 18:26:50 UTC

I like your thought processes Nick. It would be nice if we had any gutsy politician that would stand up & do that should Scotland gain independance.


Sirius, a thought process very much in line with yours too.


The Kite Fliers

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Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.
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Message 1192928 - Posted: 9 Feb 2012, 18:34:20 UTC - in response to Message 1192927.  

Well, of course it could all just be a clever stratagem by Westminster, to take the wind out of the Scottish sails once and for all, and bring them to heel. Let's give 'em independence, and wait for 5 years. When they come back cap in hand and say sorry, we got it wrong, we'll say OK, you can come back in the Union, but it will be on our terms, not yours.

I'll have a fiver on it :-)


That's a good bet....normally. However, I won't take it for the simple reason is that Westminister is nothing but a House of Buffoons.

Also, should it happen....what happens to the Scotish MP's currently serving at that time? I bet they'd be kicking up a royal stench at being kicked out of the trough as the Scotish trough will be meager pickings!
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Message 1192939 - Posted: 9 Feb 2012, 19:01:43 UTC

trough as the Scotish trough will be meager pickings!


The "trough" factor?.....If it's beneficial for Brussels to have Scotland
as an Independent state, separated from the UK, then Brussels will fill
this trough for them. They did it this way to gain the Croatia vote and
"trough filling" is an expertise Brussels is!! rather good at.

Five quid on the bet, got to be better odds of winning than if you laid
it out on the lottery.




The Kite Fliers

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Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.
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Message 1192944 - Posted: 9 Feb 2012, 19:09:14 UTC - in response to Message 1192939.  

trough as the Scotish trough will be meager pickings!


The "trough" factor?.....If it's beneficial for Brussels to have Scotland
as an Independent state, separated from the UK, then Brussels will fill
this trough for them. They did it this way to gain the Croatia vote and
"trough filling" is an expertise Brussels is!! rather good at.

Five quid on the bet, got to be better odds of winning than if you laid
it out on the lottery.




I get better odds on the lottery



One of many.............................
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Message 1192966 - Posted: 9 Feb 2012, 19:58:57 UTC - in response to Message 1192944.  

trough as the Scotish trough will be meager pickings!


The "trough" factor?.....If it's beneficial for Brussels to have Scotland
as an Independent state, separated from the UK, then Brussels will fill
this trough for them. They did it this way to gain the Croatia vote and
"trough filling" is an expertise Brussels is!! rather good at.

Five quid on the bet, got to be better odds of winning than if you laid
it out on the lottery.




I get better odds on the lottery



One of many.............................


Murphy's law, "Anything that can go wrong will go wrong"....Sirius put's
his lottery numbers up on Seti and 250,000 Uk seti members copy his numbers.
Result, 250,000 lottery players share in the Saturdays nights jackpot payout...
....each gets £10.






The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.
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Message 1193390 - Posted: 10 Feb 2012, 21:41:45 UTC - in response to Message 1193370.  

I think that Australia has more chance of becoming a Republic than Scotland has of getting Independence. But we will see.

But the question remains

1. Should Scotland be given Independence, Yes or No?

2. If not, why not

3. If yes, why yes

C'mon you Scots everywhere what do you think?


Yes, they should be given independence if the majority vote goes their way.
But Scotland, do remember, the vote on independence will only be binding if
the whole of the UK vote on this issue. Else, if only Scotland vote and the
resultant being that they leave the union they can come back any time they
like claiming that this initial vote was illegal. A crafty move here just
in case things don't work out for them, so it's best we have a Union wide
vote so the result, if in Scotland's favour, becomes legally binding.





The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.
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Message 1193832 - Posted: 11 Feb 2012, 13:28:44 UTC

Could this be one of the reasons why they want independence, trying to keep their best minds at home?

Historian Niall Ferguson to Quit Britain
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Message 1193894 - Posted: 11 Feb 2012, 16:50:24 UTC - in response to Message 1193832.  

Could this be one of the reasons why they want independence, trying to keep their best minds at home?

Historian Niall Ferguson to Quit Britain


Good point, but is he actually one of their best minds? Also, he could be
quitting Scotland as he sees Independence as a "No Hopper" for them??

The trouble today with people of his ilk they seem to think that the're above
everyone else. He wont be a loss to Scotland, Scotland needs people who can
drive the country forwards to greater prosperity, historians don't tend to
be able to do that.



The Kite Fliers

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Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.
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Message 1194259 - Posted: 12 Feb 2012, 8:52:04 UTC

On this question I recently asked two scots friends, they don't know each other, who live in Plymouth and Milton Keynes, both with family still north of the border.

Would they keep their British Passports or apply for Scottish ones?

Both, with no hesitation, said they would keep their British ones. And both implied that Scotland doesn't have the resources to stay afloat, and that their relatives have no real idea of the consequencies.
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Message 1194329 - Posted: 12 Feb 2012, 14:28:57 UTC

I am also not in a possition the give good reasons one way or the other. But can see some problems.

What currency are they going to use. The choices are presumably, keep the pound, a new scotish currency or the Euro.

If they keep the pound, and I have read this is Scotlands business leaders preference, then they are in the hands of London effectively limiting their choices of what can and cannot be done.

If they choose to have their own independant currency, will it be accepted internationally and what will be there credit rating. Presumably junk from what I have read.

To go with the Euro means joining the rest of Europe, that could take years.
Would Brussels be any better than London?

Also what happens to the Scotish part of the UK's debts. Scotlands principal bank RBS had to be bailed out by an injection of about £1 Billion.
In my opinion if they do decide to make the split they can take all their debts with them.
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Message 1194342 - Posted: 12 Feb 2012, 15:00:33 UTC

Also what happens to the Scotish part of the UK's debts. Scotlands principal bank RBS had to be bailed out by an injection of about £1 Billion.
In my opinion if they do decide to make the split they can take all their debts with them.


Well, I have to tell you, the SNP have already stated that they will look upon
the Bank of England (Bank of UK) as the lender of last resort to them. I'd like
to know who told them this? It's pretty clear to me that the SNP would use
this proviso as a parachute to allow them the risk of selling billions
of Scottish pounds or Euros in Bonds using this money to spend on their
infrastructure. If they default and go broke they then would reapply to join
the Union again and in so doing see the UK tax payer pick up their Bond bill.
Hence Scotland gets rebuilt at little cost to the Scottish people. The cost
of this being so high that it could end up changing the face of the UK for ever.
Scotland rejoins the Union but looses it's right to remain as a country. England
gives up it's Country name too and Scotland and England now become known wholly
as Britain....could even see Wales having to accept the name too since they
would have to be included. So watch out Scotland, get it wrong and the name
of Scotland could end up getting lost in the annals of old geographical history.




The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.
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Message 1196009 - Posted: 16 Feb 2012, 15:38:56 UTC - in response to Message 1196004.  
Last modified: 16 Feb 2012, 15:40:00 UTC

All this has probably been about is to get more power for Scotland in the current situation, by threatening to leave.


The Scottish are a proud people and want their independence, and who claim the oil under the seas around it. They are looking at Norway and how it used oil to pay off it's national debt and leave the whole country of Norway sitting on a lovely nest egg, thank you North Sea oil.

England would rather have that oil to squander as it has always squandered it's resources.

It's always about oil. Always will be.

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Message 1196021 - Posted: 16 Feb 2012, 16:14:58 UTC - in response to Message 1196009.  

All this has probably been about is to get more power for Scotland in the current situation, by threatening to leave.


The Scottish are a proud people and want their independence, and who claim the oil under the seas around it. They are looking at Norway and how it used oil to pay off it's national debt and leave the whole country of Norway sitting on a lovely nest egg, thank you North Sea oil.

England would rather have that oil to squander as it has always squandered it's resources.

It's always about oil. Always will be.

If only your comment were true, most of the oil is around Shetland. The Shetlanders are more norse than scottish, you more likely to see them with a tot of run rather then whiskey. And in the last push for independance, in the late 70's, the Shetlanders told Scotland, or rather told Margo MacDonald, that they wanted to sty with Westminster. From the friends I know around Virkie and Bigton, they are still not tht impressed with the independence movement.
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Message 1196031 - Posted: 16 Feb 2012, 16:34:08 UTC - in response to Message 1196021.  


If only your comment were true, most of the oil is around Shetland. The Shetlanders are more norse than scottish, you more likely to see them with a tot of run rather then whiskey. And in the last push for independance, in the late 70's, the Shetlanders told Scotland, or rather told Margo MacDonald, that they wanted to sty with Westminster. From the friends I know around Virkie and Bigton, they are still not tht impressed with the independence movement.

I presume you meant rum. Ghastly stuff. But then everyone to his/her own. I just cannot understand why the English don't get to vote for independence from Scotland.

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Message 1196058 - Posted: 16 Feb 2012, 17:09:41 UTC - in response to Message 1196031.  

I presume you meant rum. Ghastly stuff. But then everyone to his/her own. I just cannot understand why the English don't get to vote for independence from Scotland.


Naw, rum is delightful stuff. As for the English, they can't vote for anybody or anything for the simple fact is that they don't exist!

On all official documentation & especially all those "lovely" forms one has to fill out for the likes of passports etc etc....states British,Irish,Welsh, Scottish, EU, Commonwealth etc - BUT no English!

Let's have Paul McCartney do a new song......

..."give England back to the English"
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Message 1196062 - Posted: 16 Feb 2012, 17:30:32 UTC - in response to Message 1196058.  

I presume you meant rum. Ghastly stuff. But then everyone to his/her own. I just cannot understand why the English don't get to vote for independence from Scotland.


Naw, rum is delightful stuff. As for the English, they can't vote for anybody or anything for the simple fact is that they don't exist!

On all official documentation & especially all those "lovely" forms one has to fill out for the likes of passports etc etc....states British,Irish,Welsh, Scottish, EU, Commonwealth etc - BUT no English!

Let's have Paul McCartney do a new song......

..."give England back to the English"

I had too fill in an offical form the other day and English was on the list. But then I had to explain why I wasn't an Immigrant, they somehow don't understand British Military Hospital.
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Message 1196093 - Posted: 16 Feb 2012, 19:22:08 UTC
Last modified: 16 Feb 2012, 19:23:05 UTC

Well if they get their independance & run their country anywhere like they run their flagship transport company "Stagecoach", then they'll soon be back cap in hand....

.....here's the reason why. I just learnt that our branch of Stagecoach is receiving in excess of 1000 complaints a week....


..why? Simple & I have everyday experience of this one.... LOL.....

..from 07:14 until 19:03, the buses run 1 every 10 minutes & from 19:03, 1 every 30mins....

Eastbound times :04/:14/:24 etc etc.....however, without fail, 1 turns up at 04 followed by another at 05 followed by another at 06 & continue like this up until 18:00...

However westbound is a different story.... After so many trips on this bus (No 5 btw), it changes to a No 4 but only on the Eastbound leaving the Westbound to wait sometimes up to 40min

Think they need 2 essential items....A BIG watch & glasses.....

...Just waiting for a nice warm day then I'm going to video it & post on youtube.....Wonder if that'll change their "independant" minds.....
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Message 1196114 - Posted: 16 Feb 2012, 21:23:46 UTC - in response to Message 1196074.  

"Officially" there is no such Nationality as English


As far as I'm concerned I am English first


From someone who is English this is as confusing as it gets.

I just wonder if the English are afraid that if Scotland gets its independence then England will no longer exist, since there is no such nationality as English. There will be the Scottish on one side of the border and the stateless on the other. Oh, that will make me what I was when I first arrived in England; stateless.


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Message 1196131 - Posted: 16 Feb 2012, 23:07:22 UTC - in response to Message 1196114.  

"Officially" there is no such Nationality as English


As far as I'm concerned I am English first


From someone who is English this is as confusing as it gets.

I just wonder if the English are afraid that if Scotland gets its independence then England will no longer exist, since there is no such nationality as English.


If there's no nationality called English then it makes no difference what Scotland
does regarding becoming independent. English as a nationality was forsaken so
to promote the idealism of everyone in the UK being British. We accepted it
but Scotland could not they just would not melt into the great pot that
we call Great Britain. England looked to the greater advancements that would
be gained from combining the four countries of the UK under one banner "Britain".
Scotland for their part see it as being swamped rather than seeing it as gaining the right
of access to all the advantages of being part of a greater land mass and trading
nation. One thing you will discover with striking regularity is that the vast amount of Scots
who leave Scotland and find work down south never end up moving back to Scotland again.
As some of my Scottish colleagues state, "What do the Scottish electorate think
there going to gain by having independence along with their own Government"?
"Nothing new since the politicians running Scotland are the same type politicians
that have been running the UK for over the past century".



The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.
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