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Orgil Send message Joined: 3 Aug 05 Posts: 979 Credit: 103,527 RAC: 0 |
So then why Irish extremists were exploding bombs all over London for decades while scots act not too much extremely?? Before the modern legal system functioning they were both legally english colonies I guess (considering welsh is completely absorbed into english). And maybe the colonies treated little differently some how so different reactions from them. It is just distant observer's light conclusion. That is interesting. Yes I understand that even here there are people from all 4 different federal members possibly write or read this thread so some questions are too hot to deal with. Mandtugai! |
GalaxyIce Send message Joined: 13 May 06 Posts: 8927 Credit: 1,361,057 RAC: 0 |
So then why Irish extremists were exploding bombs all over London for decades while scots act not too much extremely?? That is interesting. Yes I understand that even here there are people from all 4 different federal members possibly write or read this thread so some questions are too hot to deal with. I think you mean 5 if you are going to include the Republic of Ireland. But in any case one thing will not change if, or if not, Scotland get independence. They will still have a national football team called Scotland. Who often do pretty good. flaming balloons |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24912 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
Ooops....Mr Cameron, you're going to have to do better than this...... Scots Win Independence..... ...on the Internet at least. |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24912 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
Now now, behave young man, tell the whole story .... You need to stop reading the Daily Mail or you'll get biased ! Ah yes, but this is the Scotland thread, the Welsh should start their own...:) |
Orgil Send message Joined: 3 Aug 05 Posts: 979 Credit: 103,527 RAC: 0 |
If scotland has some social and economic advantages and now actively seeking independance then it is very clear condition in addition of their long term political independance aims. BTW how is the Skets language usage rate there locally are there any efforts to use the original language at any rate of official documentations? There is big example of old jewish/hebrew language restoration and enforcement practice took place in israel just few decades ago. For example after WWII russian political pressure in mongolia increased sharply so they enforced us to lose our original abc/alphabet and to use cyrillic but after 90s when russian empire collapsed the original alphabet restoration efforts began and still going on. Mandtugai! |
W-K 666 Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 19402 Credit: 40,757,560 RAC: 67 |
What most Scots see is that most of the oil and gas is in Scottish waters, but actually most of it is around the Shetland Isles far to the north. But Shetland is closer to Norway than it is to Scotland, and the culture of Shetland is more Scandinavian thn Scottish. The local politics has been firmly Liberal for many years and they see themselves closer politically to London than Edinburgh.
Very few Scots understand their own language, a form of Gaelic, different from Irish, Welsh and Breton forms. They don't, for instance, ensure that all teachers know Gaelic, as is required in Wales. |
Orgil Send message Joined: 3 Aug 05 Posts: 979 Credit: 103,527 RAC: 0 |
Recently I watched Anonymous movie about Shakespeire and kind of learnt that maybe 400 years ago scotish man was actually appointed as a king of britain although not sure because whole movie was some kind of fictionolized historic event thing. So there is historic friction between scots vs english plus irish vs english maybe not scots vs irish. Interesting history twists mostly made of blood, tear and deaths I guess. Mandtugai! |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24912 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
If they go independent, they might have problems with their credit rating..... Scots risk credit rating |
BarryAZ Send message Joined: 1 Apr 01 Posts: 2580 Credit: 16,982,517 RAC: 0 |
Sort of like the historic friction between Russians and Ukrainians, or Latvians, or Estonians, or Lithuanians or Poles, not to mention the friction between the Russians and the Turks or various peoples near the Caucasas. Recently I watched Anonymous movie about Shakespeire and kind of learnt that maybe 400 years ago scotish man was actually appointed as a king of britain although not sure because whole movie was some kind of fictionolized historic event thing. |
Orgil Send message Joined: 3 Aug 05 Posts: 979 Credit: 103,527 RAC: 0 |
Sort of like the historic friction between Russians and Ukrainians, or Latvians, or Estonians, or Lithuanians or Poles, not to mention the friction between the Russians and the Turks or various peoples near the Caucasas. And you seem to forgot the most obvious one even in this forum which is canadians vs americans! ha ha I am almost sure that every nationals on this planet manage to make a worst enemy out of their neighbour. On some youtube pages americans and canadians fight a lot worse than traditional battlezones like israel vs arabs etc's. Because before seeing that battle I even did not imagine such kind of hostility that on TV everything is so perfect but on some internet pages totally different world exists between them. Mandtugai! |
Nick Send message Joined: 11 Oct 11 Posts: 4344 Credit: 3,313,107 RAC: 0 |
I assumed that Scotland was totally confident about being able to stand on it's own two feet once it acquired it's independence. Seems not to be the case, Scotland's Transport minister Keith Brown pressing all quarters of the UK to promote the financial benefits to having HST2. What financial benefits I ask? None to England, None to Wales definitely none to Northern Ireland so financial benefits to who then, er Scotland!! He states primarily that It will cut two hours off the travelling time from Edinburgh to London. Didn't think anyone in Scotland, after independence, actually needed or wonted to go back down to London for any reason. Ah? I do wounder if the Scots still think they will, after independence, keep Scottish representation active at Westminster. So having a fast rail link would suit them down to the ground for the purpose of servicing their seat in London. Another reason for pushing HST2 would be that it will cost Scotland nothing to finance the Scottish link as their portion of the finance would have to be provided via the UK tax payer then passed on to Scotland in the form of an extra grant. But, what happens if Scotland gains their independence before it is decided if HST2 will go further than Birmingham? Well if it does finally go further than Birmingham then if Scotland wishes to be linked to it I don't think they will be able to afford it or even justify the cost to it's electorate.... ...for Scotland would now have to finance it....no wounder the Scottish Transport minister is trying to whip it all up now. Strange too that he kept it off his his agenda till after the GLC elections, perhaps worried in case one of the lead runners to get in might use anti-HST2 slogans to gain extra votes and make it harder for the UK Government to force HST2 upon us. The Kite Fliers -------------------- Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes. |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24912 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
Yep, who said the Jocks were dumb! A better idea would be to rebuild Hardrian's Wall, lot cheaper than the HST2 & that way, the trains could turnaround at Newcastle. Quicker journey times for the rest of us....:) |
Nick Send message Joined: 11 Oct 11 Posts: 4344 Credit: 3,313,107 RAC: 0 |
Yep, who said the Jocks were dumb! They do if they vote for independence.. By the time they get independence only the second tier of ECU membership will be open to them. No Euro so higher interest rates throughout their finance system also will have to have their own currency. Will they bring back the Sceat and Bawbee? The Kite Fliers -------------------- Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes. |
Nick Send message Joined: 11 Oct 11 Posts: 4344 Credit: 3,313,107 RAC: 0 |
It does make commercial sense for the future Does anyone actually know what significant commercial gains will be acieved?... Chris... Why the Scots are getting their Sporrans in a twist Most probably wont a fast rail line to link them to the Euro express down south. Then they can get to Brussels fairly quickly. But as I suspect, Scotland will be a member of the second tier of ECU countries so may find that their operational center is not in Brussels but possibly down in Italy or Spain. A fast rail link would not be so practical then, so if this were to be the case then there's no need to link-in Scotland to the UK's HST2 planned rail network. The Kite Fliers -------------------- Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes. |
soft^spirit Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 6497 Credit: 34,134,168 RAC: 0 |
When you compare Britain's railways to others in the world, particularly the continental and Japanese ones, we are way behind in the stakes, hence the proposal for HS2. It does make commercial sense for the future, but there is plenty of opposition from the NIMBY's over the route. But it is all so many years in the future. perhaps the Scots are a bit concerned about a 200+mph train running through a herd of sheep? Janice |
Nick Send message Joined: 11 Oct 11 Posts: 4344 Credit: 3,313,107 RAC: 0 |
perhaps the Scots are a bit concerned about a 200+mph train running through a herd of sheep? One of the things that must be on the Scots minds is cost. If they can get the UK government to commit themselves now to HST2 plus a link to Edinburgh as well the Scots may be able to wrangle the cost of the Edinburgh link out of the Government now. If so they could build their link soon and then just wait for the other parts of HST2 to link up to them. If the Government drags it's heels on HST2 and before a final development decision is made Scotland gains it's independents then the Scott's will have to finance the whole of their HST2 link. As I see it, Scotland badly needs this HST2 to go ahead fully but really do not wont to have to subscribe to any of it's cost...and why?...because it would not be able to afford it without taking on a huge debt to finance it with. Big government debt means higher taxation to finance it with. One thing the Scott's don't wish to do else their population will say, "What the hell have we gained by going independent". The Kite Fliers -------------------- Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes. |
Nick Send message Joined: 11 Oct 11 Posts: 4344 Credit: 3,313,107 RAC: 0 |
2 hours quicker from London to Edinburgh is significant. People will still do business with Scotland, Independent or not. I'd be happy if it breaks even, but I don't really care if we have it or not. On balance I think we should, but I'm not campaigning for it. I would ignore the unions views since they've never shown any proven understanding of business. To them HST2 is an ideal source/recruiting ground for union memberships. To them HST2 is another tool to use to flex it's might through via strike actions, to them another London Underground. If the unions consider HST2 a worthwhile investment then why don't they go ahead and put some of their money into it. The figures that the government produce in support of HS2 are I suspect the same ones from the model used to cost/benefit the Euro-tunnel fiasco. A lesson should have been learnt here, if business does not wish to invest in the project that's because the profit return is not there. If HS2 gets built it will eventually be sold off for 20p in the pound. It will have to be sold this is Brussels policy - all government held industries must eventually be put in the hands of the private sector. If at any time after HS2 was built we were to suddenly require a IMF loan the IMF would make this HS2 sale a requirement under the loan and I've mentioned in the past why the IMF do this?????????????? The Kite Fliers -------------------- Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes. |
Nick Send message Joined: 11 Oct 11 Posts: 4344 Credit: 3,313,107 RAC: 0 |
Can you point me to any facts about that, as I'm not sure you are correct there. Well since HS2 will not be able to be run profitably it will fall foul of the ECU's policy on state aid given by Governments to any industry. This is the problem the Royal Mail is facing even though here Brussels is concerned that the Royal Mail isn't yet fit for sale. The Kite Fliers -------------------- Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes. |
W-K 666 Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 19402 Credit: 40,757,560 RAC: 67 |
If the polls are to believed then it might not happen. Just one in three Scots wants independence from Britain, poll shows |
BarryAZ Send message Joined: 1 Apr 01 Posts: 2580 Credit: 16,982,517 RAC: 0 |
Seems to me that an increasing number of folks are asking Brussels, 'who died and left you king'
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