I would be curious to know how much if any corporate oil money is filtering into the Scottish SNP.

Now that is an interesting question. Could it be that the oil companies are feeding the SNP as an independant Scotland can set their own tax rates?

..or does it go much deeper?

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No it will not. The full correct name for the UK as it stands now is "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland".

We could of course expand upon this union at the expense of annoying the
Argentinians and re-name it, United Kingdom of Great Britain, Northern Ireland and the Falkland Islands.

Good point! However, the whole consept of the United Kingdom thing is that it only includes the geographical islands of Britain (England, Scotland and Wales), Ireland and all those other little islands like Jersey and the Isle of Man. The Falklands are a bit too far away I'm afraid will have to remain as they are because they want to be British.

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I would be curious to know how much if any corporate oil money is filtering into the Scottish SNP.

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Are you sure that Eire wants Martin McGuinness.

Well considering Eire's history, I don't think they have much choice. It'll all be down to Dublin & Stormont.

If they can work together, then i can see that being one of the reasons why Scotland want independance.

Should any of this occur, then it'll be a sad day for the British Isles.

Still say my idea of the P.U.B. is workable & it will retain the Union Jack.

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No it will not. The full correct name for the UK as it stands now is "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland".

We could of course expand upon this union at the expense of annoying the
Argentinians and re-name it, United Kingdom of Great Britain, Northern Ireland and the Falkland Islands.

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The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

The UK will then be called the United Kingdom of Britain and Northern Ireland.

No it will not. The full correct name for the UK as it stands now is "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland".

Whoops, sorry. I changed my mind. Scotland leaves so you take out the "Great". I'm sure the Scots will approve in this slight modification of the UK official name.

Only until 2016, then it'll have to be England & Wales

Are you sure that Eire wants Martin McGuinness.

The UK will then be called the United Kingdom of Britain and Northern Ireland.

No it will not. The full correct name for the UK as it stands now is "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland".

Whoops, sorry. I changed my mind. Scotland leaves so you take out the "Great". I'm sure the Scots will approve in this slight modification of the UK official name.

Only until 2016, then it'll have to be England & Wales

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The UK will then be called the United Kingdom of Britain and Northern Ireland.

No it will not. The full correct name for the UK as it stands now is "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland".

Whoops, sorry. I changed my mind. Scotland leaves so you take out the "Great". I'm sure the Scots will approve in this slight modification of the UK official name.

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The UK will then be called the United Kingdom of Britain and Northern Ireland.

No it will not. The full correct name for the UK as it stands now is "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland".

I have no idea what you think the UK is and what you think Britain is. Britain is the largest geographical island next to Ireland comprising England, Scotland and Wales. If you take Scotland out of Britain then there is no such thing as Britain. Unless you want to crack Scotland away and tow it to Norway.

Then I expect Ireland will be the biggest island and will have to be called Britain. Or maybe the Republic of Britain.

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My own personal view is that if the Scots want to go their own way then let them. If that happens, then I think in time that they will regret it. But of course I could be quite wrong.

The ramifications are of course, that Great Britain will cease to exist, and return to just Britain i.e. England and Wales. The UK will then be called the United Kingdom of Britain and Northern Ireland. And yes the Union flag will have to have the flag of St. Andrew removed. That will cost millions of pounds all over the remaining UK. Quite apart from political noises that we and them would have to re-apply to join the EU as a different entity.

It ain't gonna happen is it?

I foresee that the Referendum will result in Scotland staying in the Union, but probably by a smaller margin than most would like. In which case, they will be given more devolved powers than they have now. I see this as just a brief and temporary rise in the fortunes of the SNP. If in 5 years time it is proved to be different, then I will happily admit I was wrong.

Chris, If Scotland were to be granted more powers then we might just as well
rename the Union and call it, "The United Kingdom & Scotland".
If the referendum returns a small margin in favour of staying in the Union then
I feel that this must be classed by all as an unsatisfactory result. If the
Union does not command a high level of participator support for it then this should be
the precursor to a Union wide vote on it's continuation as a Union. With only a small
margin of support, in Scotland for this Union, will only lead to the UK
government trying to buy more support there by increasing it's expenditure in
Scotland at the expence of Northern Ireland, Wales and England. You can see this
happening a mile off for it's how the political elite's minds work. In the end
this will lead to resentment by the other Union members and something will have
to give!! If the Scots can not truly feel British or identify themselves as
being British then they might just as well leave. For without this commonality
between us all then what is there to keep us "the Union" together? There has to
be a common thread and if it's not being British then what is it?

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The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

I foresee that the Referendum will result in Scotland staying in the Union, but probably by a smaller margin than most would like. In which case, they will be given more devolved powers than they have now. I see this as just a brief and temporary rise in the fortunes of the SNP. If in 5 years time it is proved to be different, then I will happily admit I was wrong.

You make a very good point of course WinterKnight. The union between England and Scotland is a political union - the Scots have always had choice to break this union, or ask to, in the past. The point about the SNP is also hugely important. It is not the Scottish people who are seeking independence, it is the leader of one political party in Scotland trying to drive this through.

Scotland has such a high level of autonomy over itself that I can't see why
they feel they would be better off totally independent from the Union. I agree
with your view GalaxyIce, to this end I wounder if this drive for Independence
is purely a one-man crusade namely that of Alex Salmond. If you asked the
English if they would like total independence from the Union you might find
the same ratio of for's and against's as mirrored in the Scottish polls.
Yet we don't intend to post this question to the English for the English seem
quite happy being in this Union even though Scotland has autonomy over the
English yet the English has none over the Scottish. The best result for Scotland
is if they vote to stay in the Union and in the processes no extra concessions
are granted to Scotland hence the status quo remains the same. If they stay in
and in the process gain extra advantages this will force the issue regarding
England having it's own government too. The British government fear granting
this to the English because it will be the eventual spearhead for promoting
independence for England. I could be wrong here but the potential for this
outcome will have then been created. So I wounder if Salmond has started something
that the English will finally finish for him, especially if the English mind-set
was to change, regarding this Union, over time.

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The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

Scottish independence choice should be put to whole of UK say the House of Lords.

I just think I might agree with that.

from the Guardian

This misses the whole point. The Scottish want to control their own affairs, to make decisons and not have things decided by England or the Peers who made the suggestion above. The Scottish should decide whether they should be independent or not. It is absurd that the House of Lords in England think the English, who have the bulk of the population in the UK, have to decide this for Scotland.

I disagree, I have no problem with people trying to control their own affairs, but this would be a decision that affects the whole of the UK.
Also as Scotland has provided more than its fair share of the top politicians in Westminster, and it has been known for Scottish MP's to vote on purely English matters then I think they have had plenty of opportunities to put their point of view.

For many years, it has been recognised that Scotland requires more per head than England and Wales to maintain its infrastructure etc. But when oil was discovered around, in so called scottish waters, some scots, now mainly known as the SNP thought that if they separated they could keep all the riches to themselves rather than share it with the people who have financially supported them for so long.

You make a very good point of course WinterKnight. The union between England and Scotland is a political union - the Scots have always had choice to break this union, or ask to, in the past. The point about the SNP is also hugely important. It is not the Scottish people who are seeking independence, it is the leader of one political party in Scotland trying to drive this through.

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flaming balloons

Scottish independence choice should be put to whole of UK say the House of Lords.

I just think I might agree with that.

from the Guardian

This misses the whole point. The Scottish want to control their own affairs, to make decisons and not have things decided by England or the Peers who made the suggestion above. The Scottish should decide whether they should be independent or not. It is absurd that the House of Lords in England think the English, who have the bulk of the population in the UK, have to decide this for Scotland.

I disagree, I have no problem with people trying to control their own affairs, but this would be a decision that affects the whole of the UK.
Also as Scotland has provided more than its fair share of the top politicians in Westminster, and it has been known for Scottish MP's to vote on purely English matters then I think they have had plenty of opportunities to put their point of view.

For many years, it has been recognised that Scotland requires more per head than England and Wales to maintain its infrastructure etc. But when oil was discovered around, in so called scottish waters, some scots, now mainly known as the SNP thought that if they separated they could keep all the riches to themselves rather than share it with the people who have financially supported them for so long.

One thing that most have not commented on. If Scotland were to become totally independant what would be the shape of politics in the remainder? blue perhaps.

*******

A quick comment to Sirius, did you look to see what is the recruiting area of the Scots Guards? Did you think it stopped at the border. Well think again, they recruit at least as far south as Preston, (that's the Lancashire one).

Scottish independence choice should be put to whole of UK say the House of Lords.

I just think I might agree with that.

from the Guardian

This misses the whole point. The Scottish want to control their own affairs, to make decisons and not have things decided by England or the Peers who made the suggestion above. The Scottish should decide whether they should be independent or not. It is absurd that the House of Lords in England think the English, who have the bulk of the population in the UK, have to decide this for Scotland.

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Scottish independence choice should be put to whole of UK say the House of Lords.

I just think I might agree with that.

from the Guardian

Since the 'special relationship' between the UK and America has been severed, most dramatically, by 0bo0, (zero-bo-zero), i would suggest a direct appeal by the Scots powers to the new president elected in 2012...

Most likely it would be ignored, and the special relationship re-established; but given the world situation, i see no better hope for a collusion in the next 50 years of democratic shame at their most resounding defeat since Carter...

The returning of the bust of Churchill as 'inappropriate'.

The gift of a CD collection to *THE QUEEN*?

(I'm consistently amazed he still sits at the presidential desk, gifted by Her Majesty, Queen Victoria)

Honestly, if i were president, My gift would have been a fountain signatory pen hewn from the deck of the USS Constitution, and capped in gold from the Spanish Fleet, (but then I'm stupid, sentimental and appreciative like that.)

What could more appropriately signify the readiness of the true power of English military might for collusion with the USA than these portents?

~Just my $.02

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You write as if you have a big chip on your shoulder..

You write as if you have lost the plot and are resorting to insults.

I will have to credit you with that statement,see your quote below...

There we go; the USSR of England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland.

When the referendum comes, if it does at all, the Scottish electorate will vote
to stay in the Union by a minimum of a 2 to 1 majority. I've had, during the
past four years, four Scottish staff pass through my doors who have no inclination to
move back to Scotland at any time during their employment years down in the south
here. One staff member does consider retiring back to Scotland but since he has
at least 35 years of employment still to go anything could happen. But what stands
out is one chap, a Glaswegian, who told me straight, "A wise Scotsman is a man
who both lives and works down in the south". As regarding the Independence issue
he has absolutely no time for it. So what does he know regarding this
Independence issue that worries him so. The big issue now is if Salmond is
only trying to wrestle more power for Scotland and really does not wont
total independence. If he gets it then it will put the UK government under
immense pressure to permit an English parliament of sorts to be heralded in.
For this to occur would then permit England a high level of self government,
just as Scotland has, but the Scots will have no influence upon it though like
they do over England at the moment. What will be the next stage, if England
gets it's own government, yes, England possibly pushing for independence from
the Union. Scotland has a big-big influence on how the UK is run, it punches
far above it's weight. So if England was to get it's own government then I
see Scotland being demoted to minnow status, well it only amounts to about
10% of the UK population. Perhaps this is what Alex Salmond see's happening
so hopes to jump ship before the English do thereby giving Scotland an early
start in setting itself up in good time?...Who knows, only history will tell
in the end?

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The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

One thing worries me in all this....

Should the Scots succeed with their independance...what will happen to those famous Scottish Regiments?

Will they change the side of the road they drive on, go Europe/America or stay English? Will they keep the English currency? And what happens to the Union Jack? They need to take the Scottish flag out of that, surely?

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