Where did you meet these Scottish people?

I've spent a lot of time in Scotland, particularly in Aberdeen. I am proud to be a first foot through the door in Fife during New Years Eve on my very first visit to Scotland and have even personally met dead Scottish people in a Scottish university awaiting study by medical students who may or may not have been Scottish.

You write as if you have a big chip on your shoulder..

You write as if you have lost the plot and are resorting to insults.

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flaming balloons

One thing worries me in all this....

Should the Scots succeed with their independance...what will happen to those famous Scottish Regiments?

They have been the backbone of the British Army for centuries or will Salmond want his cake to eat?

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Really? I meet Scottish people all the time and have never noticed that they move in a southerly direction and never ever move northwards.

Where did you meet these Scottish people?, or are you in Scotland yourself?

There we go; the USSR of England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland.

You write as if you have a big chip on your shoulder..

As regards a United Kingdom it was as much a wont of the Scots as is was for
the English. Bony Prince Charlie wonted it, and all under his control, his whole reason for raising
an army and marching south. He eventually got cold feet and marched back up
to Scotland again.

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The Kite Fliers

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Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

No idea where you get those idea's from. Most officers of the Welsh, Scotish and Irish regiments are from the indicated countries.
In the late 60's the unit I was with had small comms site within the camp of the 3rd Carabiniers and all their officers except the doctor and the paymster were Welsh. It might not have sounded like it, but that was because most of them were educated in private schools like Eton and Harrow etc.

And before that the CO of my previous unit definitely could have been described as a Capt Blimp, he never made Col. he was too thick to pass the staff exam.

Not ideas but fact. You yourself confirm this...Capt Blimp? How did he get to Captain?

Education as far the the miliary goes does not prove a thing. Many a so called "Educated Officer" made serious errors of judgement that cost many lives. As WWI & II proved, there were many instances where the Senior & even junior NCO's saved many a situation.

One of the more famous "Educated" cock ups was Arnhem Sept 1944. The high command were aware of intelligence that suggested that it would not be as easy as Montgomery suggested - so what price Education?.

Saying that, the plan itself, if successful, would have ended the war earlier.

But that is not just a British thing. The American commander Major General John P. Lucas at Anzio stayed put when most of his own officers and the Brits said break out immediately, Rome is undefended. He didn't, the Germans defended Rome and brought up heavy Artillery and the invasion force was pounded on the beaches.

No idea where you get those idea's from. Most officers of the Welsh, Scotish and Irish regiments are from the indicated countries.
In the late 60's the unit I was with had small comms site within the camp of the 3rd Carabiniers and all their officers except the doctor and the paymster were Welsh. It might not have sounded like it, but that was because most of them were educated in private schools like Eton and Harrow etc.

And before that the CO of my previous unit definitely could have been described as a Capt Blimp, he never made Col. he was too thick to pass the staff exam.

Not ideas but fact. You yourself confirm this...Capt Blimp? How did he get to Captain?

Education as far the the miliary goes does not prove a thing. Many a so called "Educated Officer" made serious errors of judgement that cost many lives. As WWI & II proved, there were many instances where the Senior & even junior NCO's saved many a situation.

One of the more famous "Educated" cock ups was Arnhem Sept 1944. The high command were aware of intelligence that suggested that it would not be as easy as Montgomery suggested - so what price Education?.

Saying that, the plan itself, if successful, would have ended the war earlier.

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It all seems to boil down to legal terminology. In law, England is a Country not a Nation. Although I consider myself to be an Englishman, I'm not bothered about ticking British boxes on forms. If the Welsh and Scottish want to get their knickers in a twist about that, good luck to them, we are made or more sterner stuff.

That's very debatable! The main force behind the British Empire was its military forces which were mainly English officers & the actual fighting men were Irish, Scots & Welsh with a fair amount of Englishmen.

Thoroughout that history, there has been many instances of those officers being "Colonel Blimps" & this had continued right up to WWII, where the armed forces had managed to weed many of them out.

From that point of view I can understand why the Scots Welsh & Irish disliked the English, & probably still do to a certain extent.

No idea where you get those idea's from. Most officers of the Welsh, Scotish and Irish regiments are from the indicated countries.
In the late 60's the unit I was with had small comms site within the camp of the 3rd Carabiniers and all their officers except the doctor and the paymster were Welsh. It might not have sounded like it, but that was because most of them were educated in private schools like Eton and Harrow etc.

And before that the CO of my previous unit definitely could have been described as a Capt Blimp, he never made Col. he was too thick to pass the staff exam.

It all seems to boil down to legal terminology. In law, England is a Country not a Nation. Although I consider myself to be an Englishman, I'm not bothered about ticking British boxes on forms. If the Welsh and Scottish want to get their knickers in a twist about that, good luck to them, we are made or more sterner stuff.

That's very debatable! The main force behind the British Empire was its military forces which were mainly English officers & the actual fighting men were Irish, Scots & Welsh with a fair amount of Englishmen.

Thoroughout that history, there has been many instances of those officers being "Colonel Blimps" & this had continued right up to WWII, where the armed forces had managed to weed many of them out.

From that point of view I can understand why the Scots Welsh & Irish disliked the English, & probably still do to a certain extent.

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It all seems to boil down to legal terminology. In law, England is a Country not a Nation. Although I consider myself to be an Englishman, I'm not bothered about ticking British boxes on forms. If the Welsh and Scottish want to get their knickers in a twist about that, good luck to them, we are made or more sterner stuff.

I expect the Irish got swamped and left behind the ones who didn't want independence in the 'country' of Northern Ireland. Even the Russians didn't split neighboring countries into two.

Wasn't it religion that split Ireland, and also split Scotlands second city Glasgow.

Actually there are a lot of countries with splits, Belgium, the Nederlands, Italy, Lebanon, Palestine, Sudan to name a few. And most African states are split on tribal lines because the Europeans drew false boundaries.

England has almost always has been split, these days at Watford. But since the dark ages when it was Northumberland and the south. Then there was the war of the roses, between the Houses of York (south) and Lancaster (north). The civil war. The Industrial north and the mainly rural south, with London as the Banking centre.

edit] Probably why I'm such a mixed up kid, northern Father, southern Mother.

Nationality office

they had advised somebody there was no such thing as an English nationality

This is getting queerer and queerer. There is an England but no English?

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If I am asked for my Nationality I reply British.
If I am asked for my Country of birth I reply Wales.
If I am asked for my citizenship I reply English.

That is based upon coming from English stock, and living in London and SE England for all of my life since 6 months old, and I don't have a problem with any of that. But I have also listed my "personal" choices in preferential order previously.

Nationality office

discussion

English as a nationality was forsaken so
to promote the idealism of everyone in the UK being British.

Oh you mean England decided to take over.

We accepted it
but Scotland could not they just would not melt into the great pot that
we call Great Britain.

Of course the conquering England accepted it as the Russians accepted it when it conquered all the countries around it and called it all the USSR.

England looked to the greater advancements that would
be gained from combining the four countries of the UK under one banner "Britain".

There we go; the USSR of England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland.

Scotland for their part see it as being swamped rather than seeing it as gaining the right
of access to all the advantages of being part of a greater land mass and trading
nation.

I expect the Irish got swamped and left behind the ones who didn't want independence in the 'country' of Northern Ireland. Even the Russians didn't split neighboring countries into two.

One thing you will discover with striking regularity is that the vast amount of Scots
who leave Scotland and find work down south never end up moving back to Scotland again.

Really? I meet Scottish people all the time and have never noticed that they move in a southerly direction and never ever move northwards.

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"Officially" there is no such Nationality as English

As far as I'm concerned I am English first

From someone who is English this is as confusing as it gets.

I just wonder if the English are afraid that if Scotland gets its independence then England will no longer exist, since there is no such nationality as English.

If there's no nationality called English then it makes no difference what Scotland
does regarding becoming independent. English as a nationality was forsaken so
to promote the idealism of everyone in the UK being British. We accepted it
but Scotland could not they just would not melt into the great pot that
we call Great Britain. England looked to the greater advancements that would
be gained from combining the four countries of the UK under one banner "Britain".
Scotland for their part see it as being swamped rather than seeing it as gaining the right
of access to all the advantages of being part of a greater land mass and trading
nation. One thing you will discover with striking regularity is that the vast amount of Scots
who leave Scotland and find work down south never end up moving back to Scotland again.
As some of my Scottish colleagues state, "What do the Scottish electorate think
there going to gain by having independence along with their own Government"?
"Nothing new since the politicians running Scotland are the same type politicians
that have been running the UK for over the past century".

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The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

"Officially" there is no such Nationality as English

As far as I'm concerned I am English first

From someone who is English this is as confusing as it gets.

I just wonder if the English are afraid that if Scotland gets its independence then England will no longer exist, since there is no such nationality as English. There will be the Scottish on one side of the border and the stateless on the other. Oh, that will make me what I was when I first arrived in England; stateless.

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Well if they get their independance & run their country anywhere like they run their flagship transport company "Stagecoach", then they'll soon be back cap in hand....

.....here's the reason why. I just learnt that our branch of Stagecoach is receiving in excess of 1000 complaints a week....


..why? Simple & I have everyday experience of this one.... LOL.....

..from 07:14 until 19:03, the buses run 1 every 10 minutes & from 19:03, 1 every 30mins....

Eastbound times :04/:14/:24 etc etc.....however, without fail, 1 turns up at 04 followed by another at 05 followed by another at 06 & continue like this up until 18:00...

However westbound is a different story.... After so many trips on this bus (No 5 btw), it changes to a No 4 but only on the Eastbound leaving the Westbound to wait sometimes up to 40min

Think they need 2 essential items....A BIG watch & glasses.....

...Just waiting for a nice warm day then I'm going to video it & post on youtube.....Wonder if that'll change their "independant" minds.....

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On all official documentation & especially all those "lovely" forms one has to fill out for the likes of passports etc etc....states British,Irish,Welsh, Scottish, EU, Commonwealth etc - BUT no English!

"Officially" there is no such Nationality as English as laid down by various acts of Parliament and accession. England annexed Wales and became Britain. Britain joined in Union with Scotland and became Great Britain. GB joined in Union with Ireland who later went their own way, and then became the UK, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

In the 2001 Census, the forms in Scotland were different to elsewhere. A Scottish box was present along with a British one, whilst in England and Wales there was only the British box. Unsurprisingly the greatest resentment of this was in Wales - a coffin was carried around at the 2001 National Eisteddfod in protest. Scotland had different forms because Scotland had their own devolved Parliament established by the Scotland Act 1998.

After consultations in 2005 and 2007, amended questions were agreed for the 2011 Census,

2011 census

Question 9

What is your country of birth?
 England
 Wales
 Scotland
 Northern Ireland
 Republic of Ireland
 Elsewhere, write in the current name of country

I happened to be born in Wales because my parents were evacuated there during WWII, but I am of English stock, with family links to England on my mothers side, and Ireland on my paternal great grandfathers side, and Wales on my Paternal great grandmothers side (think I got that right).

According to my passport, I am a British Citizen of the UK. As far as I'm concerned I am English first, British second, a UK citizen third, and a Setizen fourth.

I presume you meant rum. Ghastly stuff. But then everyone to his/her own. I just cannot understand why the English don't get to vote for independence from Scotland.

Naw, rum is delightful stuff. As for the English, they can't vote for anybody or anything for the simple fact is that they don't exist!

On all official documentation & especially all those "lovely" forms one has to fill out for the likes of passports etc etc....states British,Irish,Welsh, Scottish, EU, Commonwealth etc - BUT no English!

Let's have Paul McCartney do a new song......

..."give England back to the English"

I had too fill in an offical form the other day and English was on the list. But then I had to explain why I wasn't an Immigrant, they somehow don't understand British Military Hospital.

I presume you meant rum. Ghastly stuff. But then everyone to his/her own. I just cannot understand why the English don't get to vote for independence from Scotland.

Naw, rum is delightful stuff. As for the English, they can't vote for anybody or anything for the simple fact is that they don't exist!

On all official documentation & especially all those "lovely" forms one has to fill out for the likes of passports etc etc....states British,Irish,Welsh, Scottish, EU, Commonwealth etc - BUT no English!

Let's have Paul McCartney do a new song......

..."give England back to the English"

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If only your comment were true, most of the oil is around Shetland. The Shetlanders are more norse than scottish, you more likely to see them with a tot of run rather then whiskey. And in the last push for independance, in the late 70's, the Shetlanders told Scotland, or rather told Margo MacDonald, that they wanted to sty with Westminster. From the friends I know around Virkie and Bigton, they are still not tht impressed with the independence movement.

I presume you meant rum. Ghastly stuff. But then everyone to his/her own. I just cannot understand why the English don't get to vote for independence from Scotland.

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flaming balloons

All this has probably been about is to get more power for Scotland in the current situation, by threatening to leave.

The Scottish are a proud people and want their independence, and who claim the oil under the seas around it. They are looking at Norway and how it used oil to pay off it's national debt and leave the whole country of Norway sitting on a lovely nest egg, thank you North Sea oil.

England would rather have that oil to squander as it has always squandered it's resources.

It's always about oil. Always will be.

If only your comment were true, most of the oil is around Shetland. The Shetlanders are more norse than scottish, you more likely to see them with a tot of run rather then whiskey. And in the last push for independance, in the late 70's, the Shetlanders told Scotland, or rather told Margo MacDonald, that they wanted to sty with Westminster. From the friends I know around Virkie and Bigton, they are still not tht impressed with the independence movement.