Parents role in Education ?

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Message 1420821 - Posted: 27 Sep 2013, 2:18:19 UTC - in response to Message 1420797.  

I'm not going to give you published examples. I have to live, some of the time, with one my 30+ year old Autistic son.
And as you might realise I had to deal with him and the education system for a long time. For him the expensive system they put in place, for all the "special needs" children, did not work, and if they had listened to me and the doctors should have realised it was not going to work.

Special Needs as far as I can make out on my experience, is all kids who the normal teachers cannot deal with.
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Message 1420840 - Posted: 27 Sep 2013, 5:10:25 UTC

I can give you a few hints why school turned me off.
I was party to a system change in the German Schools.
Teacher liked the ruler, Why me and not my sister is up to debate. Excuse was my hand writing was sloppy.
Then I wanted to go to an All Girls school. Niped in the butt, by my Granddad.
I was forced to help a very deranged individual, who killed his parents.
WK, the first time I became aware of your son affliction was from a friend. On the upside here, Cerebral Palssy victims Have longer life span.
All said I have mostly A and B
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Message 1420939 - Posted: 27 Sep 2013, 12:24:45 UTC - in response to Message 1420649.  

Now this is a surprise, Atheism to be taught to Irish schoolchildren

That'll be a fairly short lesson.

"Hello, come in.
There is no god.
...
Same time, next week"

I believe Andy Parsons originally made this joke.
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Message 1421148 - Posted: 27 Sep 2013, 20:23:29 UTC - in response to Message 1420821.  

I'm not going to give you published examples. I have to live, some of the time, with one my 30+ year old Autistic son.
And as you might realise I had to deal with him and the education system for a long time. For him the expensive system they put in place, for all the "special needs" children, did not work, and if they had listened to me and the doctors should have realised it was not going to work.

Special Needs as far as I can make out on my experience, is all kids who the normal teachers cannot deal with.


You're not telling me much.
30+ could mean 39, which means not all that much younger than me, and so the changes I described would have had none to little impact on him (if any, maybe 3-6 years).
You haven't mentioned where on the spectrum he is. Does not Bill Gates have Aspberger's?
At the university, if I have a legally blind student, I *must* (LEGALLY!!!) find ways to work with such students. And I have.
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Message 1421328 - Posted: 28 Sep 2013, 7:56:06 UTC

Sarge, it may just be difficult for WK to talk about this situation? In the UK teachers are also bound to teach all in their class whatever their abilities, this is known as dealing with "differentiation". The usual way is to employ group working with the strong helping the weak, leaving the teacher to concentrate on those that need 1 to 1 the most.

WK, I think you are right in that it is very tempting for teachers to label any "difficult" child special needs, so that they can offload them. Some are just plain naughty kids who haven't been brought up properly, but some genuinely have learning problems, and it takes an expert to ascertain what the situation is.

Uli, I quite enjoyed school despite getting the ruler and slipper now and again, went o an all boys school from 13-16 after passing the 13+ exam. Preferred it with the girls though.

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Message 1421367 - Posted: 28 Sep 2013, 11:01:45 UTC

My son is as I said 30+, now to describe ages approximately I would also use mid-40's or approaching 50.

The short answer from the tests, I have paid for recently, so that he is able to still claim incapacity (now called Employment and Support Allowance (ESA)) and disability benefits, put his mental capabilities about the same as an 11 year old.

I don't think Bill Gates has autism, and although you cannot see it, for those in the UK Brian Cox's new program Science Britannica in episode 2. Method and Madness there is a comparison between those with Autism and scientists. In some aspects they are not that far apart.

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Message 1421371 - Posted: 28 Sep 2013, 11:20:24 UTC

Autism often gets mixed up with Aspergers, and as I said earlier needs expert diagnosis. Autism

During my 8 years as an FE teacher in IT, I had a number of students that had varying degrees of difficulty in socialising with other people, which is the common link here. Yes, some can be over bright, and others educationally challenging. I don't think that anyone can be categorised as 100% this, or 100% that, it is usually a combination of a number of factors that are individual to them. In WK's case, someone aged 30+ with the capabilities of an 11 year old, would probably be classed as a medium + disability.

there is a comparison between those with Autism and scientists. In some aspects they are not that far apart.

I have always said that you have to be partly off the radar and on the extreme edge, to be able to think outside the box, and to come up with some scientific discoveries. It's the same with psychiatrists/psychologists, it takes one to know one.

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Message 1421374 - Posted: 28 Sep 2013, 11:33:14 UTC - in response to Message 1186976.  
Last modified: 28 Sep 2013, 11:34:40 UTC

I have never believed that phonics helped English speakers to learn how to read all that much. Primarily, this is because English is not phonetically spelled. The problem is that we have 24 vowel sounds due to our diphthongs (ae, oe, ou ai etc).

For instance GHOTI could easily be pronounced as "FISH"

gh is F as in enough
o is I as in women
ti is SH as in action

languages such as Farsi and Hebrew which are phonetically spelled don't usually even write their short vowels and they have only a handful. In my learning to read Farsi I was only confused by the fact that in Teheran they used a bit of slang pronunciations e.g. NAN (bread) was pronounced as NOON and SHISH (six) was pronounced as SHEESH.

I am not a linguist but I almost married one.
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Message 1421375 - Posted: 28 Sep 2013, 11:33:46 UTC - in response to Message 1421371.  

Reading that link, my son is a mixture of their explanations, the whole subject of autism is complex and having spoken to many people about it I don't think there are any clear definitions to classify most suffers.

And I have mentioned it before but I have a brother-in-law who is a psychiatrist, although now he is semi-retired and over the other side of the pond.
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Message 1421894 - Posted: 29 Sep 2013, 8:21:22 UTC - in response to Message 1421371.  

Autism often gets mixed up with Aspergers, and as I said earlier needs expert diagnosis. Autism

During my 8 years as an FE teacher in IT, I had a number of students that had varying degrees of difficulty in socialising with other people, which is the common link here. Yes, some can be over bright, and others educationally challenging. I don't think that anyone can be categorised as 100% this, or 100% that, it is usually a combination of a number of factors that are individual to them. In WK's case, someone aged 30+ with the capabilities of an 11 year old, would probably be classed as a medium + disability.

there is a comparison between those with Autism and scientists. In some aspects they are not that far apart.

I have always said that you have to be partly off the radar and on the extreme edge, to be able to think outside the box, and to come up with some scientific discoveries. It's the same with psychiatrists/psychologists, it takes one to know one.


Autism spectrum includes Aspberger's.

Does Bill Gates have Aspberger's?

Chris, I would not have discussed it further if he had not brought it up.
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Message 1423570 - Posted: 3 Oct 2013, 14:38:21 UTC

Children should not start formal school lessons until the age of six or seven, a group of educationalists has said.

I have never heard such poppycock! We all know that the majority of kids born today in the UK are either mistakes on a Saturday night after the pub, or deliberate meal tickets. That is why most parents simply aren't interested in them as people, they are just "things" to be tolerated. Go into any city centre in the UK and see how many women pushing buggys around have a ring on their left hand. VIRTUALLY NONE OF THEM!! Very few kids today are born wanted, into a stable family unit.

We already have far to many horror stories of 5 years olds being expelled from school because of spitting at teachers, violent behaviour towards other children, lack of toilet training, and general anti social tendencies. Can you imagine how they would be 2 years later at age 7? These crackpot "experts" try to compare the UK with Finland by saying that

Supporters of a move towards a later start, point to the differences around the world [/b]and in particular to Sweden and Finland, where the legal age for starting school is seven. Children in those countries typically enter formal schooling later than those in the UK, but they have usually been in a nursery or kindergarten where they have been learning through play and games.

It may work over there, but with our crap parents, it won't work over here. Should there be something in the public water supply to stop them breeding? Makes you wonder at times ....

Rubbish!

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Message 1423595 - Posted: 3 Oct 2013, 16:03:43 UTC - in response to Message 1423570.  

[quote]Children should not start formal school lessons until the age of six or seven, a group of educationalists has said.

I have never heard such poppycock! We all know that the majority of kids born today in the UK are either mistakes on a Saturday night after the pub, or deliberate meal tickets.
...
Go into any city centre in the UK and see how many women pushing buggys around have a ring on their left hand. VIRTUALLY NONE OF THEM!! Very few kids today are born wanted, into a stable family unit.[quote]
My such vitriolic hatred. The only thing you missed was saying what race the kids are, but I suspect you are using socioeconomic status to mask that.


Now Chris, tell me how many of those women pushing the buggy are the hired nanny? Tell me how many of them reject male ownership of women and the requirement to advertise they are owned? Tell me how many of them had a husband that beat them regularly?

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Message 1423715 - Posted: 3 Oct 2013, 18:35:32 UTC

My such vitriolic hatred

Not at all, simply some home truths.

The only thing you missed was saying what race the kids are

I'll come to that.

tell me how many of those women pushing the buggy are the hired nanny

It is pretty obvious who are the real mothers of a child and who are the childminders for a friend or neighbour. Simple intelligent observation can tell you that. What you do see a lot are double buggies with a white and a black child in them. They are most likely the ones doing the "nannying" for a neighbour or a friend.

Tell me how many of them reject male ownership of women and the requirement to advertise they are owned?

Good lord, anyone would think you are a fan of Germaine Greer or Janet Street Porter! Yes or course there are a certain group of women that style themselves Ms and say that their marital status is their private business. And of course others that say no man owns me, I am my own woman etc. Used to be called the burn your bra brigade. The majority of women are happy to wear their partners ring to signify that they are in a meaningful and happy relationship. Not so much as a statement to other people, but as a statement to themselves.

Tell me how many of them had a husband that beat them regularly?

How on earth can anyone answer that? Maybe some yes, and there will be some that left a relationship for the benefit of the child as well.

I still say that putting school age back until 7 will not work in the UK.

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Message 1423946 - Posted: 4 Oct 2013, 7:33:18 UTC

What this says about UK public schools I'm not sure.
It could be that the majority of these people were above average intelligence anyway. But if that is the case, before the introduction of Comprehensive schools they would probably have been selected to go to Grammar/High schools and done just as well.

But it does indicate that a better education system would improve the chances of a large section of the population. And that would not only help them but would help the country.

Special report:

Under Margaret Thatcher’s abolished assisted places scheme, working-class pupils went to private schools - how did they get on?

Under Margaret Thatcher’s government, they were plucked from poverty and taken out of state schools to attend top private schools instead, courtesy of the state.

The children of the Assisted Places Scheme are now in their 40s. And according to research published today, about half of them are likely to be earning at least £90,000 a year and sending their own children to private schools – but none of them will be dirtying their hands with any kind of manual work.


£90,000 a year is over twice the national average household income.
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Message 1425239 - Posted: 7 Oct 2013, 14:19:41 UTC - in response to Message 1423595.  

Tell me how many of them reject male ownership of women and the requirement to advertise they are owned?

If the man wears a ring does that mean he's owned by the woman? Or is that implicit in marriage anyway? (I wouldn't know, i'm not married, and have no intention of becoming so.)
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Message 1425695 - Posted: 8 Oct 2013, 11:36:06 UTC

It would appear that the race to the bottom, caused by the change to comprehensive schools, hasn't stopped yet.

England's young people near bottom of global league table for basic skills

England is the only country in the developed world where the generation approaching retirement is more literate and numerate than the youngest, according to the first skills survey by the OECD.

In a stark assessment of the success and failure of 720 million-strong adult workforce across the wealthier economies, the economic thinktank warns that in England, adults aged 55 to 65 perform better than 16-24-year-olds in both foundation levels of literacy and numeracy. The survey did not include people from Scotland or Wales.
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Message 1425718 - Posted: 8 Oct 2013, 13:09:51 UTC

Well for starters, this is something I have been saying here for at least 5 years, and elsewhere for 20 years. If I ran a business I wouldn't employ anyone under 25 years old. What would be the point? They'd struggle to do elementary maths, joined up writing, probably struggle to read their pay slip, and wouldn't have a clue about how to deal with paying customers.

There was a government report 10 years ago, at the moment I can't find it, saying that in terms of the general public ability with IT, the UK lapsed far behind any other EU country. So what did we get, cockeyed educationalists deciding the we should introduce computer programming into schools. When actually what was wanted was end user ability.

Q. What is the point of going to school?
A. To be educated.

Q. What is the point of being educated?
A. So that when you leave school you can get a job

Q. Why do I need a job?
A. So that you can earn money, buy or rent a house to live in, buy clothes to wear, a car to travel in, holidays.

Q. But no-one is willing to employ me?
A. That's because you are unemployable, you have no skills or abilities that anyone is willing to pay you any money for.

Q. Why wasn't I told this 10 years ago?
A. You were, but you wouldn't listen, nor would your parents.

People of my generation were brought up properly by responsible parents, and were taught a damn sight better than today, becuase teachers then were allowed to teach. We didn't have cute 7 or 8 year olds claiming that homework breaches their human rights or something equally daft. Why cant we have something put in the public water supply to stop the buggers breeding?

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Message 1425741 - Posted: 8 Oct 2013, 14:07:41 UTC

+1
It's good to be back amongst friends and colleagues



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Message 1425768 - Posted: 8 Oct 2013, 18:02:30 UTC

Chris - you forgot the "Its my right to <insert today's whine>"
Obviously the answer depends on the whine, but always goes along the lines "You need to ear that "right" by hard work...
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Message 1426786 - Posted: 10 Oct 2013, 19:28:00 UTC

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