Parents role in Education ?

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Message 1251356 - Posted: 25 Jun 2012, 16:04:53 UTC - in response to Message 1251348.  

Good link WK. I often get strange looks when in shops/supermarkets/petrol stations & the electronic tills go down - they can't understand how someone can give the correct totals without a pen,paper or calculator.....

....sheesh, makes me wonder for the future.


It's also obvious that educationalists know very little of the real world from that question on doors.

Unless hand made to fit a specific gap, doors are all in inches, even on the continent of Europe. Widths in multiples of 3 inches and usually heights of 6ft 6in, some wider doors are 7ft high.
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Message 1251361 - Posted: 25 Jun 2012, 16:12:42 UTC

The educationalists say, why should we bother to teach kids mental arithmetic in the 21st century, when for all practical purposes they don't need that ability, because technology has given them a tool to do it for them.

But, if you follow that line of reasoning, then people in the future will be a generation of machine minders, and not independent thinking human beings.
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Message 1251371 - Posted: 25 Jun 2012, 16:33:43 UTC - in response to Message 1251361.  

The educationalists say, why should we bother to teach kids mental arithmetic in the 21st century, when for all practical purposes they don't need that ability, because technology has given them a tool to do it for them.

But, if you follow that line of reasoning, then people in the future will be a generation of machine minders, and not independent thinking human beings.


ROFLMAO.....because I just thought this after reading your post......

...SO what happens when the power goes down?
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Message 1251389 - Posted: 25 Jun 2012, 16:47:11 UTC

...SO what happens when the power goes down?


We all watch television by candlelight ....

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Message 1251517 - Posted: 25 Jun 2012, 20:07:09 UTC - in response to Message 1251361.  

The educationalists say, why should we bother to teach kids mental arithmetic in the 21st century, when for all practical purposes they don't need that ability, because technology has given them a tool to do it for them.

But, if you follow that line of reasoning, then people in the future will be a generation of machine minders, and not independent thinking human beings.

So it's all a plot by the rich and powerful to reduce the unwashed masses into an unthinking moldable mass willing to do any task set by the bosses for a few pennies per week.
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Message 1251538 - Posted: 25 Jun 2012, 20:46:02 UTC

So it's all a plot by the rich and powerful to reduce the unwashed masses into an unthinking moldable mass willing to do any task set by the bosses for a few pennies per week.

No not at all, it is not a plot of any kind. Society evolves, science evolves, we have just got lazy in that we let ourselves take advantage of technology. We should control technology rather that let is control us.

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Message 1251552 - Posted: 25 Jun 2012, 20:58:17 UTC - in response to Message 1251538.  

so heading towards "Minority Report" society then.....
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Message 1253704 - Posted: 30 Jun 2012, 12:52:33 UTC

I think we need more than parents in classes - we need local businesses to go back to school!

Just got back from a local shop with some groceries which totalled £16.06, but I got £5.84 in change (handed over a £20 note).

On quering this, I got told that the total came to £14.16....

..huh? Using the marked up prices, the total came to £16.06, yet the barcode scanner totaled £14.16...

...that's a difference of £1.90 & none of the groceries were anywhere need that difference...

...oh well, if they do this every day, who am I to complain?
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Message 1253718 - Posted: 30 Jun 2012, 13:57:45 UTC

we need local businesses to go back to school!

Nope! Don't jump to conclusions. You will probably find that the barcode scanned prices are the latest up to date prices. What has clearly happened, as happens everywhere, is that the shop hasn't bothered to update the shelf prices. Usually because it costs them money to pay someone to do it. There is a double dip recession remember!

As far as I know, a stated price in consumer law is an "offer to sell at the advertised price" and a customer can choose to decline the offer. However, if you get charged MORE than the shelf prices, then it might be worth letting your local Trading Standards office know, although that won't exactly endear you to the shop.


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Message 1253730 - Posted: 30 Jun 2012, 14:14:55 UTC - in response to Message 1253718.  
Last modified: 30 Jun 2012, 14:15:17 UTC

Not jumping to conclusions, the price of the items purchased were in fact the correct prices (in this case, they forgot to update the barcodes), I attempted to be totally honest with them, but they argued that they were correct, so I'm £1.90 better off.
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Message 1253770 - Posted: 30 Jun 2012, 16:48:22 UTC

(in this case, they forgot to update the barcodes),


Hehe, oh well in that case that is their silly fault, it is usually the other way around!! Shops do rely on the barcodes above displayed prices, but if they get even those wrong then they really do lose out.

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Message 1256396 - Posted: 6 Jul 2012, 13:22:05 UTC

Better late than never?

11 year old testing returns
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Message 1256416 - Posted: 6 Jul 2012, 13:55:17 UTC

And about damn time too! But now we will have to endure all the Educational psychologists proclaiming that the little dears will get too stressed and it's not fair !!

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Message 1264373 - Posted: 26 Jul 2012, 10:32:15 UTC

Although I am not at all surprised by this article, I and others have seen it coming for many years, but nevertheless, it is extremely worrying to say the least. I think that this is one occasion when the Mail is quite right to print a lurid headline.

Expulsions for violence


Earlier this year, Dr Mary Bousted, general secretary of the Association of Teachers and Lecturers, said: ‘A minority of children are very aware of their rights, have a total disregard of school rules and are rather less aware of their responsibility for their own learning and how to show respect to staff and other students. ‘This can apply as much to over-indulged middle class children as those from challenging families.’

How are kids under the age of 11 so clued up about their rights? Via the internet? Social networking sites?

Kid A - I won't worry, daddy has a good job, he'll buy me out of any trouble.
Kid B - My mum doesn't care what I get up to, so why should I?
Kid C - I don't like my teacher, So I can hit her, and she is not allowed to hit me back.

The latest data emerged days after a psychologist warned that parents who are afraid to discipline their children are creating an unruly generation. Dr Tanya Byron, who featured in BBC TV’s The House of Tiny Tearaways, described the rise of the ‘friend-parent’ who tries to be the child’s equal rather than an authority figure.

If parents discipline their children these days, they are liable to be reported to the local Social Services Dept for child abuse. There was a case in my town last year where a mother gave an unruly 5 year old a slap on the legs for bad behaviour in the local high street. A neighbour saw it and reported her. She was threatened with the child being put into care. All this modern claptrap rubbish about you have to be your child's best friend is esoteric nonsense. Hardly surprising therefore that we have the problems we have.

Teachers’ leaders said yesterday that a lack of parental support was to blame for discipline problems. Chris Keates, general secretary of the NASUWT, said a recent survey had shown that two-thirds of teachers highlighted poor support from parents. ‘Sending children to school on time, with basic equipment and clear expectations of how they are expected to behave is a critical part of the job of all parents,’ she said. ‘Parents must understand that their responsibility for their child’s behaviour does not end at the school gate.’

Parents just DON'T understand that. "He's a good boy really, he just gets in with the wrong crowd, and I cant be responsible for what he gets up to outside the house, when I'm not there" is a typical comment. Sorry, you are legally responsible for your child up until the age of 16 whether you like it or not. If you don't like it, then perhaps you shouldn't have had another kid just to get more social and child allowance.

It's all part of the current vicious circle, where people come out of school poorly educated, can't get a decent job, and see having kids as a meal ticket. "I'll put up with 'em until they're 5, then I'll hand them over to you lot. If they misbehave in class then you ain't teaching them properly, don't complain to me." At the moment we are in a downward spiral, I do not yet see a way out of it. The one child policy of China is one way around it, but we are a bit more civilised in the West.

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Message 1264933 - Posted: 27 Jul 2012, 17:35:42 UTC - in response to Message 1264373.  

Although I am not at all surprised by this article, I and others have seen it coming for many years, but nevertheless, it is extremely worrying to say the least. I think that this is one occasion when the Mail is quite right to print a lurid headline.

Expulsions for violence


Figures for previous years might help show whether the heading is accurate.

Earlier this year, Dr Mary Bousted, general secretary of the Association of Teachers and Lecturers, said: ‘A minority of children are very aware of their rights, have a total disregard of school rules and are rather less aware of their responsibility for their own learning and how to show respect to staff and other students. ‘This can apply as much to over-indulged middle class children as those from challenging families.’

How are kids under the age of 11 so clued up about their rights? Via the internet? Social networking sites?

Kid A - I won't worry, daddy has a good job, he'll buy me out of any trouble.
Kid B - My mum doesn't care what I get up to, so why should I?
Kid C - I don't like my teacher, So I can hit her, and she is not allowed to hit me back.


Why shouldn't children be aware of their rights? BTW Kid A may have a point, the wealthy can often buy their way out of trouble. Kid B has a point too, though the fault there appears to be with the parent(s). Kid C is clearly wrong, not liking a teacher does not excuse violence, and the child will likely be suspended and/or expelled.

The latest data emerged days after a psychologist warned that parents who are afraid to discipline their children are creating an unruly generation. Dr Tanya Byron, who featured in BBC TV’s The House of Tiny Tearaways, described the rise of the ‘friend-parent’ who tries to be the child’s equal rather than an authority figure.

If parents discipline their children these days, they are liable to be reported to the local Social Services Dept for child abuse. There was a case in my town last year where a mother gave an unruly 5 year old a slap on the legs for bad behaviour in the local high street. A neighbour saw it and reported her. She was threatened with the child being put into care. All this modern claptrap rubbish about you have to be your child's best friend is esoteric nonsense. Hardly surprising therefore that we have the problems we have.


Why do you equate violence with discipline?

Teachers’ leaders said yesterday that a lack of parental support was to blame for discipline problems. Chris Keates, general secretary of the NASUWT, said a recent survey had shown that two-thirds of teachers highlighted poor support from parents. ‘Sending children to school on time, with basic equipment and clear expectations of how they are expected to behave is a critical part of the job of all parents,’ she said. ‘Parents must understand that their responsibility for their child’s behaviour does not end at the school gate.’

Parents just DON'T understand that. "He's a good boy really, he just gets in with the wrong crowd, and I cant be responsible for what he gets up to outside the house, when I'm not there" is a typical comment. Sorry, you are legally responsible for your child up until the age of 16 whether you like it or not. If you don't like it, then perhaps you shouldn't have had another kid just to get more social and child allowance.


Why do you believe people have children for state benefits?

It's all part of the current vicious circle, where people come out of school poorly educated, can't get a decent job, and see having kids as a meal ticket. "I'll put up with 'em until they're 5, then I'll hand them over to you lot. If they misbehave in class then you ain't teaching them properly, don't complain to me." At the moment we are in a downward spiral, I do not yet see a way out of it. The one child policy of China is one way around it, but we are a bit more civilised in the West.


I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1265048 - Posted: 27 Jul 2012, 23:58:38 UTC - in response to Message 1251361.  
Last modified: 27 Jul 2012, 23:59:13 UTC

The educationalists say, why should we bother to teach kids mental arithmetic in the 21st century, when for all practical purposes they don't need that ability, because technology has given them a tool to do it for them.

But, if you follow that line of reasoning, then people in the future will be a generation of machine minders, and not independent thinking human beings.


Oops! Wild, wacky, math educationalists suggest Do the math in your head!
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Message 1279195 - Posted: 2 Sep 2012, 9:58:40 UTC

From A UK Sunday Newspaper, yes you know which one!

Mr Cameron said this government was being braver stating there would be "no more excuses for failure; no more soft exams and soft discipline.

"When the grades went down, a predictable cry went up: that we were hurting the prospects of these children.

"What hurts them is dumbing down their education so that their potential is never reached and no one wants to employ them."

But they were quite right to report his remarks. I have been saying exactly that for a long time, and I'm pleased to see that at last the PM agrees with me, about time too! Perhaps I should sit by the phone during his imminent Cabinet re-shuffle :-)) Mind you, Michael Gove seems to be heading in the right direction as well New powers

But us old hands have heard all this before, lets see the evidence of it working before we get too excited.


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Message 1279202 - Posted: 2 Sep 2012, 10:29:51 UTC

The problem with Parents in Classes is that there are no "parents" of children in the inner city schools. Perhaps three quarters of them are born out of wedlock and are raised by their grandmothers. This environment does not promote a home life that is conducive to the nurturing of the child's education in most cases.

This is what's fundamentally wrong with our education system.
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Message 1279211 - Posted: 2 Sep 2012, 10:49:05 UTC
Last modified: 2 Sep 2012, 10:50:59 UTC

William, you have hit the nail squarely on the head! This thread has wandered far and wide from its original purpose, but I have been happy to allow it to do so, as it has all been relevant comment. But I have just altered its title to be more descriptive.

I cant quantify the 75% figure you quote of "out of wedlock" for here in the UK but I wouldn't actually doubt it. But there is an enigma though isn't there? If the majority of kids are in fact being brought up by their grandparents then why do they not have the standards and moralities of their grandparents era?
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Message 1279377 - Posted: 2 Sep 2012, 21:04:07 UTC - in response to Message 1279211.  

If the majority of kids are in fact being brought up by their grandparents then why do they not have the standards and moralities of their grandparents era?

Perhaps they do. Their parents are the obviously result of being brought up by that generation, so that (grandparents) generation is getting another chance to fail. It looks like we have some evidence of when the failure to parent came into society.

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