Socialism for Americans is where the government provides for all regardless of their efforts or inputs.

For an european like me that sounds like comunism in old USSR.

For me socialism, i like being a democrat in the US, or a member of the labour party in the UK.

But is interesting how thoughts can be different in the other side of the pond.

Still I strongly believe that in some research projects the cost is so High and the short run benefits are so litle that only the government can back it up.

The question is will there be abundant private capital to invest in space and it's technological offshoots.

The article below mentions many private firms taking over Nasa facilities and doing Space Biz in Florida. Boeing being one.

If you don't Trust a link I give, then I've given the Search Words in the link and you can feel safe finding it on your own.

Why Nasa's Fire Sale Is Good News For Florida

Dull as a burned up re-entry tile.

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China has been allowing private capital formation for over 30 years.

Socialism for Americans is where the government provides for all regardless of their efforts or inputs.

Don't think government is too much on the back of space exploration. The question is will there be abundant private capital to invest in space and it's technological offshoots.

Would there be enough private capital to build 200 nuclear plants here in the US given the risk.

There is no more Bell Labs to bring us the transistor, laser, Telephone, cell phone, networks etc.

Government sponsorship brought us the digital computer and much of it's development.

However wasteful, gov't sponsored research may be necessary for technical advancement. In the past this was primarily motivated by war and space exploration.

ok any president that isn't a member of the elite ruling class gated Community community multiple mansion owning party

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In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

Didn't you know, socialism is any policy proposed by a non-white President.

I always wanted to know what is the notion of socialism for a US citizen, it seems like something bad, awfull like socialists will eat childreen at breakfast.

The race card doesn't apply here, and you know it.

Didn't you know, socialism is any policy proposed by a non-white President.

I always wanted to know what is the notion of socialism for a US citizen, it seems like something bad, awfull like socialists will eat childreen at breakfast.

Great Nations have always sponsored exploration. Failed nations have sponsored socialism.

I'm curious about what is your notion of socialism.

China is sponsoring exploration and as per US standards is a socialist state.

I always wanted to know what is the notion of socialism for a US citizen, it seems like something bad, awfull like socialists will eat childreen at breakfast

we have no clue.
We're Americans!
But, it's interesting you ask this question, since you do not sound particularly socialist yourself.
Not that I'd know what a socialist sounds like. :)

Now there is a sound bite that the entire TeaPublican party partisans can understand as their entire public policy.

So a nation complying with the Preface to the Constitution is a failed nation. Fair enough, we've been doomed from the start. Go to know.

Great Nations have always sponsored exploration. Failed nations have sponsored socialism.

Great Nations have always sponsored exploration. Failed nations have sponsored socialism.

Get government off the back of space exploration. That's what the founding Fathers would have wanted.

Great Nations have always sponsored exploration. Failed nations have sponsored socialism.

I'm curious about what is your notion of socialism.

China is sponsoring exploration and as per US standards is a socialist state.

I always wanted to know what is the notion of socialism for a US citizen, it seems like something bad, awfull like socialists will eat childreen at breakfast.

so most of EUrope Canada, Japan, singapore are failed states. I need to update my maps

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In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

Great Nations have always sponsored exploration. Failed nations have sponsored socialism.

I think the word is hypocrisy. On one hand you want the Gov't to basically end all social programs yet for the scientific welfare state that is NASA you want it to continue.

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In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

OK -- I thought you (or someone else) was pointing out the tech payoffs from previous government funded endeavors. So the expectation of having government funded further manned missions (with the tech payoffs going to private companies it seems -- as it has in the past), sounds a bit like an 'astro industry' entitlement -- and we know have folks rage against entitlements.

I agree with you about 'moon first' approaches. The quick fix would be low orbit and storage there for a flight to Mars -- but the long 'we are here to stay' approach would entail some permanent moon base.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see both a return to the moon and a mars endeavor. It does seem to me though that in the context of poorly provided health care to 20% of the population -- and seemingly massive resistance to resolving this -- there seems to be a bit of 'no for this, then no for that' action going on.

I guess I'm thinking that if we figured out a way to reduce the 18% of GDP for health care in this country (compared to something like 10% in most other developed countries with better health care access), to say even 15% (and decent access), then even 1/3 of that going to space exploration would be just dandy.

I don't see any contridictions in my point of view. I'm just pointing out that all the hardware is already being built by private firms.

As far as going back to the moon to establish a working base to explore the rest of the solar system I think in the end it will prove to be the only way further manned exploration will happen. The moon is now known to have all the raw materials needed to build and fuel future deep space vehicles.

But going anywhere on private money won't happen unless or until there is a way to gain a profit. So you tell me how a totally privately funded space mission is going to turn a profit.

Getting back to whether Obama is going to close NASA even though I believe he would like to I doubt that he can without a lot of help from somewhere. California, Texas and Florida have a lot to lose if NASA and all it's programs were closed down and those three states have a large impact on how National elections turn out. Also their members of congress from both parties heavily support the space program. NASA may not initiate any new space missions over the next few years but it is very doubtful that it will close it's doors. Move along, these aren't the droids you are looking for.

Still telling ya, with the previous suggesting we go back to the Moon first, before Mars, NASA was in trouble.
And it's funny, the self-contradiction: why do you not support the private industrialization of space travel/exploration?

I don't see any contridictions in my point of view. I'm just pointing out that all the hardware is already being built by private firms.

As far as going back to the moon to establish a working base to explore the rest of the solar system I think in the end it will prove to be the only way further manned exploration will happen. The moon is now known to have all the raw materials needed to build and fuel future deep space vehicles.

But going anywhere on private money won't happen unless or until there is a way to gain a profit. So you tell me how a totally privately funded space mission is going to turn a profit.

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Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.

Why Nasa's Fire Sale Is Good News for Florida

Dull

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Actually, I see at least one area of technological development -- spawned by the ongoing wars (not withstanding your view that over the past 10 years we've not pursued wars) -- unmanned aircraft -- for observation, command and control, and killer strikes. Remote wars -- kill them, not us.

Since we are too poor to fund space endeavors and too broke, too politically correct and beat up to pursue wars we will find out that technological development may be slowed or the next new technology may not be forthcoming at all.

Since we are too poor to fund space endeavors and too broke, too politically correct and beat up to pursue wars we will find out that technological development may be slowed or the next new technology may not be forthcoming at all.

Same question to you, William, as to Bob DeWoody. Why do you want a government program for this, and not put a lot, or any, support behind the private sector industry leading us further into space? (Which, if it happens, could just as well spur the technological developments you so rightly refer to.)
and if I am understanding you and Bob correctly, again I ask, do you not see the contradictory stance you are taking, compared to just about anything else either of you have posted in the Politics forum. If you see it as otherwise, please explain what I'm missing.
'Til then, "Woo hoo, gooo ANSARI!"

Sometimes I wish that the Iron curtain would still exist as it seems that America and Europe are not capable to be leaders in a world where there is any competition anymore.

Big corporations will only fund the research that think that will bring any profits on the short and medium term, and certain fields are not interesting for the corporations like the investigation of space.

However they forget one thing, from Space and military research came a lot of patents a lot of inventions that today we are using in our current lives.

Necessity (real or perceived) is the mother of all invention.

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Since we are too poor to fund space endeavors and too broke, too politically correct and beat up to pursue wars we will find out that technological development may be slowed or the next new technology may not be forthcoming at all.

Mankind is on a crossroad. Technologic revolution that has started during the industrial revolution is coming to an end. Mankind needs new forms of energy to feed their hunger for energy and knowledge. Today research is fundamental for mankind to be able to give another lap forward; money will not be an issue if politicians understand the turning point where we stand, instead of thinking only at 4-5 years at the time. Now vision is needed.

If America and Europe don’t want to lose their position of leaders in terms of research then now is the time to increase the funds on research, not to cut like Obama is doing with NASA.

To let NASA fall is a mistake that will have a great cost in future generations not only of Americans but also in Europe.

Sometimes I wish that the Iron curtain would still exist as it seems that America and Europe are not capable to be leaders in a world where there is any competition anymore.

Big corporations will only fund the research that think that will bring any profits on the short and medium term, and certain fields are not interesting for the corporations like the investigation of space.

However they forget one thing, from Space and military research came a lot of patents a lot of inventions that today we are using in our current lives.