Who is to Blame?

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Profile Sarge
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Message 1160599 - Posted: 9 Oct 2011, 15:36:36 UTC

On "Meet the Press," right now, Paul Ryan speaking to host David Gregory. Mr. Gregory plays a clip of Herman Cain: "If you're not a billionaire, don't blame Wall Street, blame yourself." Gregory asks Ryan, is what Cain is saying the Republican message for 2012? Gregory responds that he wants to work on removing the barriers Washington has placed on people that keep them from rising.

Implicit in this is that there are outside factors that effect lives of individuals, possibly so much so that one cannot just attribute personal successes and failures on one's own decisions.

That's what I think. What do you think?
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Profile John Clark
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Message 1160671 - Posted: 9 Oct 2011, 18:37:31 UTC

I blame Herman Munster, Sarge, for stopping my business and creative abilities.
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Message 1160774 - Posted: 10 Oct 2011, 0:15:46 UTC - in response to Message 1160671.  

I blame Herman Munster, Sarge, for stopping my business and creative abilities.

It's a serious question, John.
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Profile William Rothamel
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Message 1160778 - Posted: 10 Oct 2011, 0:50:06 UTC - in response to Message 1160774.  

Bad things can happen to good people; but, by and large I believe we make our own luck. Some have a head start by virtue of all sorts of things. It's up to the individual to make the most of himself and the opportunities this Nation presents us with.
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Message 1160839 - Posted: 10 Oct 2011, 5:16:50 UTC - in response to Message 1160778.  

Bad things can happen to good people; but, by and large I believe we make our own luck. Some have a head start by virtue of all sorts of things. It's up to the individual to make the most of himself and the opportunities this Nation presents us with.

Some people start much further down the ladder than others with many more obstacles in their paths.
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Message 1160874 - Posted: 10 Oct 2011, 8:46:49 UTC

There are a lot of ways to get successful in life. Yes there are state regulations, there are market obstacles, competition and other constrains.

However only a fool would start a business without being proper informed. Like in everything in life there is a risk. The higher the gains, the higher the risk, it’s a simple law of economics.

Bottom line, is we build our own luck, and most of the business go down to the drain or Investments go bust, because people got petrified, got greedy or made bad decisions.

It’s easy to find someone to blame when our investments in the stock market disappear or when our business has to shut down. But do we make a serious analysis in how we behaved?
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Message 1160915 - Posted: 10 Oct 2011, 12:56:02 UTC - in response to Message 1160874.  

If we are talking the Bill Gates/J K Rowlings book of luck where they had wealthy parents/husband to make sure they were well kept and supplied as they competed and completed their work then I'd like the silver spoon project as well.
In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
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Message 1160929 - Posted: 10 Oct 2011, 13:58:49 UTC - in response to Message 1160915.  

If we are talking the Bill Gates/J K Rowlings book of luck where they had wealthy parents/husband to make sure they were well kept and supplied as they competed and completed their work then I'd like the silver spoon project as well.



From TV documentaries, of the Panorama/Horizon type, and the back up link here I don't think J K Rowling, post the Harry Potter gold seam, had a silver spoon. I believe she was a divorced single mother on benefits and going through a really bad patch.

I can understand the point on Bill Gates, but not the latter. It was her first Harry Potter book, after many publisher rejections that started the money train. That took persistence and good luck.
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Message 1160930 - Posted: 10 Oct 2011, 14:03:56 UTC
Last modified: 10 Oct 2011, 14:04:25 UTC

Look at James Dyson, now one of the most respected inventors of our age. Remember how villified he was in his early stages. Only by sheer hard work and dogged determination did he succeed. Look at Sir Alan Sugar, another lad who made good.

Es is right.
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Message 1160943 - Posted: 10 Oct 2011, 15:03:41 UTC
Last modified: 10 Oct 2011, 15:05:36 UTC

I find it interesting, time and time and again, how some people who are interested in the various scientific projects hosted through BOINC, with some of these people themselves involved in the teaching or research of mathematics or other sciences, will often fall back upon unfounded opinions. And they do so with as much certainty as the certainty they attack in the threads about religion and spirituality.
Rather than fall back on the old saying, "You make your own luck," have you at least heard about, or read, studies that can help delve into the complex questions about nature, nurture and myriad other factors? One area that immediately came to mind was studies on twins. This is just to start.. And if anyone can think of similar research areas, please include them.
If you prefer a different search engine, enter my search phrase at google, or better yet, scholar.google.com, and those of you that have access to university research databases such as ERIC (not Korpela!) ... go for it!
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Message 1160971 - Posted: 10 Oct 2011, 16:37:59 UTC - in response to Message 1160929.  
Last modified: 10 Oct 2011, 16:41:50 UTC

If we are talking the Bill Gates/J K Rowlings book of luck where they had wealthy parents/husband to make sure they were well kept and supplied as they competed and completed their work then I'd like the silver spoon project as well.



From TV documentaries, of the Panorama/Horizon type, and the back up link here I don't think J K Rowling, post the Harry Potter gold seam, had a silver spoon. I believe she was a divorced single mother on benefits and going through a really bad patch.

I can understand the point on Bill Gates, but not the latter. It was her first Harry Potter book, after many publisher rejections that started the money train. That took persistence and good luck.

my understanding whe was and is married to a very well to do barrister. Though being poor does make for a better story even if its not true

A comedy site yet has actual citations
In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
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Message 1160980 - Posted: 10 Oct 2011, 17:03:13 UTC - in response to Message 1160599.  

I agree with this -- but does it really say that much. We are in a very much interconnected world. Our own skills and determination matter, as do the 'preconditions' (ie family situation when growing up, early schooling, etc.). Over the past several years, the external conditions have had an increasingly large effect as well. With the tanked economy, even people with the right 'preconditions', skills and determination are among those struggling today.

Then again, I don't think one could every attribute personal success solely to one's own decisions.






Implicit in this is that there are outside factors that effect lives of individuals, possibly so much so that one cannot just attribute personal successes and failures on one's own decisions.

That's what I think. What do you think?

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Profile John Clark
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Message 1161018 - Posted: 10 Oct 2011, 19:25:19 UTC - in response to Message 1160971.  
Last modified: 10 Oct 2011, 19:27:29 UTC

my understanding whe was and is married to a very well to do barrister. Though being poor does make for a better story even if its not true

A comedy site yet has actual citations



Not according to the background details given on JK Rowling at Wikipedia, who suggested she was married in 1992 for 12-18 months to a Portuguese television journalist Jorge Arantes.

Again, from Wikipedia, in order to teach in Scotland she would need a postgraduate certificate of education (PGCE), requiring a full-time, year-long course of study. She began this course in August 1995,[44] after completing her first novel while having survived on state welfare support. So, she was not able to teach until she had the full qualifications, which she did while on welfare and looking after her child and writing the first Harry Potter book.

Her biography (possibly biased from your fairy story rags to riches) mirrors the Wikipedia data (probably written by here if on a conspiracy theory).

I would comment that the Rags to Riches are false link quoted in an early post is really a rubbishing exercise and unlikely to be true.

My opinion is the story of before 1995 as a single mother and on benefits is likely to be true.
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Message 1161064 - Posted: 10 Oct 2011, 21:26:54 UTC

Who is to Blame?

99% of the 99% is to Blame. They need to Blame Themselves.

0.0099% of The 1% is to Blame. They would be MO FOs.

Earthquakes, Hurricanes, Meteors, Tsunamis, Volcanos are not included.

Dull
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Message 1161079 - Posted: 10 Oct 2011, 22:45:37 UTC - in response to Message 1161064.  

Who is to Blame?

99% of the 99% is to Blame. They need to Blame Themselves.

0.0099% of The 1% is to Blame. They would be MO FOs.

Earthquakes, Hurricanes, Meteors, Tsunamis, Volcanos are not included.

Dull


You can gibber in your own thread. ;)
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Message 1161080 - Posted: 10 Oct 2011, 22:48:50 UTC - in response to Message 1160980.  

I agree with this -- but does it really say that much. We are in a very much interconnected world. Our own skills and determination matter, as do the 'preconditions' (ie family situation when growing up, early schooling, etc.). Over the past several years, the external conditions have had an increasingly large effect as well. With the tanked economy, even people with the right 'preconditions', skills and determination are among those struggling today.

Then again, I don't think one could every attribute personal success solely to one's own decisions.


Hmmm. Such as, say, Steve Jobs if he lived in the 1500s? Maybe his skills really only fit techy stuff, and back then, he would've had nothing to grab onot, thus not being a success no matter how determined a dude he was?
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Message 1161148 - Posted: 11 Oct 2011, 5:02:19 UTC - in response to Message 1161080.  

Well, put nearly any of us back in the 1500's and we'd be probably worse off than Dull seems to be <smile>.

I'd be several times dead by now, as a Jew and a cancer survivor, and also being a highly myopic (from early) and not particularly athletic sort.

But perhaps that sort of 'change the environment and where would you be' scenario is a bit off the charts for this discussion...



Hmmm. Such as, say, Steve Jobs if he lived in the 1500s? Maybe his skills really only fit techy stuff, and back then, he would've had nothing to grab onot, thus not being a success no matter how determined a dude he was?


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Message 1161155 - Posted: 11 Oct 2011, 5:31:43 UTC - in response to Message 1161148.  

Ugh, woke up after only 90 minutes of sleeping.

But perhaps that sort of 'change the environment and where would you be' scenario is a bit off the charts for this discussion...


It'd be almost perfect.
One thing I'm asking is, who's read, or seen TV reports that summarize about, the research on twins? Some of it has involved identical twins that were separated shortly after birth and, IIRC, while some turned out very similar, in other cases, the influence of nurture caused very big differences.
So, what does science have to say about "we make our own luck"?
Anecdote: whether you like his stuff or not, the rapper Eminem is a success and he id work hard to get there. But, part of that success story was also that Dr. Dre heard some of his stuff, got interested, and plucked him up. Dre helped in that success story.
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Message 1161160 - Posted: 11 Oct 2011, 6:49:50 UTC

I had a tough start and was raised by middle class? parents. I managed to attend college and get a BA degree in math education. I didn't stay with teaching and ended up working in the civil engineering field. I'm not a success if only measured monitarily but now in my retirement I am reasonably content.

I probably could have become wealthy with a few lucky breaks and a lot of ambition but I chose to go through life without stepping on the backs of my family, friends and co-workers or sponging off the government.

I am totally responsible for where I am now but like most everyone else I do sometimes try to pin the blame elsewhere.
Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.
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Message 1161176 - Posted: 11 Oct 2011, 8:40:51 UTC
Last modified: 11 Oct 2011, 8:44:05 UTC

Basically nothing to blame just reconsider about your way of thinking and your way of doing maybe everyday something. (probably I have read somewhere)
Mandtugai!
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Message boards : Politics : Who is to Blame?


 
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