As a system builder, I've already got round that. Whether or not MS will let system builders continue to get around it is another question.......

That might be the case (so far) for small scale operations. Who knows how far Microsoft might push this through?

My understanding is that still leaves most/all Microsoft Windows 8 'pre-installed' systems locked down just like a 'games console'.

That may well kill the upgrades and resale markets for Windows 8 PCs...

You lose the freedom to use your own hardware as you wish.


IT is what we make it,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

That may well kill the upgrades and resale markets for Windows 8 PCs...

You lose the freedom to use your own hardware as you wish.


IT is what we make it,
Martin

If it goes too far down that road, I can well see the makings of a class action lawsuit.
If MS goes so far as to corrupt hardware from being utilized as it's rightful owner sees fit....I, for one, would sign on.

---

"Time is simply the mechanism that keeps everything from happening all at once."

+1

---

As far as I know, APPLE's OS software will still not run on unauthorized/unapproved hardware (ie an ibm pc).

The post-Intel cpu MAC varieties can be hacked to do so, but that is irrelevent.

So, I believe if MS wants to follow in APPLE's footsteps, albeit some ~35 years later, there is already a substantial precedent for it to be legal.

If that is so, then maybe the best we can do is to get the word out to the manufacturers and vendors that we will not buy any product (hardware or software) that restricts the user's ability to use it as the user wishes.

Lt

A few months back, I found a 64BIT, *NIX version, (ED)UBUNTU, made an Image
on a DVD and tried it. And I liked it, BOOTed faster, from DVD, then WIN 7, did from
it's own HDD. The use of Graphic cards are far better supported, then before.

However, I never figured out how to install a BOINC version, didn't also try hard, but wanted to get 'a grip' of UBUNTU.

Then I Installed IT.........on HDD, which made BOOTing a nightmare, keyboard and mouse were not seen and if you let it run(BOOT), you would expect a Screen with which O.S. you want to use(BOOT)!

It appeares, far too short to make a selection and the 1st (Latest UBUNTU) is started!? NOT so nice!

Only by pressing, F2; F5; DEL, trying to access UEFI/BIOS and arrow keys holded down untill, it starts beeping, I can access the '[i]Multi-BOOT', options.....

But I do like UBUNTU, it can easily "replace" WINDOWS. Gettin it to work with
f.i. SETI@home, is not that easy. Especially the GPUs.

For now, I'll stick with Windows (7;64BIT).
How to make a BOINC (version), which can run on "any suitable piece of hardware", or has his own OS.....?!?!
Sort of 'Embedded OS/BOINC' or a (USB/eSATA/1394/LAN, etc. 'version'.
Probably, too complecated and not practical, afterall.

---

But I do like UBUNTU, it can easily "replace" WINDOWS. Gettin it to work with
f.i. SETI@home, is not that easy. Especially the GPUs.

I never had a problem getting Boinc and Seti@home to work under Linux. Just download the right version and place it in a directory of choice, open a shell window, go to the file directory, type sh followed by the full file name (e.g."sh boinc_6.12.34_i386-pc-linux-gnu.sh"
The go to the BOINC subdirectory that was just created using the sh command and type "./run_manager" (or: "./run_client" if you don't need the GUI).

This assumes that you are running under the root account though.

---

Seti@Netherlands website

But I do like UBUNTU, it can easily "replace" WINDOWS. Gettin it to work with
f.i. SETI@home, is not that easy. Especially the GPUs.

I never had a problem getting Boinc and Seti@home to work under Linux. Just download the right version and place it in a directory of choice, open a shell window, go to the file directory, type sh followed by the full file name (e.g."sh boinc_6.12.34_i386-pc-linux-gnu.sh"
The go to the BOINC subdirectory that was just created using the sh command and type "./run_manager" (or: "./run_client" if you don't need the GUI).

This assumes that you are running under the root account though.

No need for root if you are using the shell script 'install'. That will run fine under your user name. Note also that you will need to start boinc each time you start up your system or log in.

Better is to install boinc as a normal application for your system. Ubuntu and most others now have that in their normal repositories. Most install as a service so that boinc starts as soon as the machine starts up.

Just look up how to install boinc for your distro. Usually the task is just a few clicks of the mouse.

GPU operation for boinc on Linux is supported automatically by various other projects. Unfortunately, not so for s@h... You'll need some 'advanced' skills to place the relevant files in the correct place and to update the config file for boinc...

More of a question is when the s@h admins add automatic support for GPUs...

Happy fast crunchin',
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Mandriva is still a bit complicated when getting BOINC to autostart and placing the icon on the desktop. I can breeze through the install in about 20 minutes. It used to take an hour. I know Mandriva has a BOINC client to install however it is usually pretty outdated by the time they all for its release

---

In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

... I know Mandriva has a BOINC client to install however it is usually pretty outdated by the time they all for its release

Unfortunately, that is a hard one for the way Berkeley update Boinc...

Whatever gets to be considered 'stable' is already 'outdated'!...

Happy crunchin',
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

... I know Mandriva has a BOINC client to install however it is usually pretty outdated by the time they all for its release

Unfortunately, that is a hard one for the way Berkeley update Boinc...

Whatever gets to be considered 'stable' is already 'outdated'!...

Happy crunchin',
Martin

'Stable and OutDated', doesn't necessarilly bite eachother, but can surely become a problem.

A lot of the regular Number Crunching Forum posters are using one of those
efficient LUNATICs Applications
and those have to be UPDated, (except the, f.i. rev.0.38, installers,) manually, also write (a part of) a suitable app_info.xml file!
Which is not particurly difficult, but 'one typo', can ruin a comlete cache of MB or
AstroPulse WUs!

But, one day, I'll learn this.... ;-)
(One way could be using: sudo (Super User Do!?) Command, as a root).
Still have much to learn. And Time is on my Side. (I do hope so.....)

---

As far as I know, APPLE's OS software will still not run on unauthorized/unapproved hardware (ie an ibm pc).

The post-Intel cpu MAC varieties can be hacked to do so, but that is irrelevent.

So, I believe if MS wants to follow in APPLE's footsteps, albeit some ~35 years later, there is already a substantial precedent for it to be legal.

If that is so, then maybe the best we can do is to get the word out to the manufacturers and vendors that we will not buy any product (hardware or software) that restricts the user's ability to use it as the user wishes.

Lt

But Apple does not lock you into only running the Mac OS, you are free to install other operating systems if you want.

What MS is thinking of doing is locking you into Windows 8 and only Windows 8 on pre-built computers.

---

As far as I know, APPLE's OS software will still not run on unauthorized/unapproved hardware (ie an ibm pc).

The post-Intel cpu MAC varieties can be hacked to do so, but that is irrelevent.

So, I believe if MS wants to follow in APPLE's footsteps, albeit some ~35 years later, there is already a substantial precedent for it to be legal.

If that is so, then maybe the best we can do is to get the word out to the manufacturers and vendors that we will not buy any product (hardware or software) that restricts the user's ability to use it as the user wishes.

Lt

But Apple does not lock you into only running the Mac OS, you are free to install other operating systems if you want.

Maybe some, but not all.

What MS is thinking of doing is locking you into Windows 8 and only Windows 8 on pre-built computers.

I understood that. I think there should be fewer restrictions on all fronts, not just Linux vs whatever.


Lt

I think the supposed "Lock-in" will all be down to what the big PC retailers & the major hardware manufacturers have to say about that.

If both parties do not object, that I wouldn't be surprised to see a massive exodus from Microsoft software... & if that happens, it really will be the end for MS.

---

MS is not going anywhere.

There are too many computer casual users who only care about the computer doing what is asked of it by the user. They don't care about the underlying software or hardware as long as the job is done. They don't care about hardware upgrades or any such thing. If the computer can't do what is asked of it then they upgrade to a new computer and continue on. There are simply too many of these casual users for the rest of us have any meaning.

Therefore we will be led like sheep, the unknowing led by Microsoft.

---

Boinc....Boinc....Boinc....Boinc....

MS is not going anywhere.

There are too many computer casual users who only care about the computer doing what is asked of it by the user. They don't care about the underlying software or hardware as long as the job is done. They don't care about hardware upgrades or any such thing. If the computer can't do what is asked of it then they upgrade to a new computer and continue on. There are simply too many of these casual users for the rest of us have any meaning.

Therefore we will be led like sheep, the unknowing led by Microsoft.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of people like that. They also view 'computers' as some form of unknown magic.

They are also the people that rush out to buy a new PC when their 'old' Windows machine has 'slowed down'... Not understanding that the 'slow-down' is actually any or all of a slow internet connection, a bloated Windows registry, an over exuberance of browser cache files, or whatever malware choking things to death.

On occasion, I've had to resort to showing off the comparative speed of a USB memory stick "LiveCD" Linux distro on their hardware to show that the PC itself was perfectly fine...

(Note: USB is slow and so running any OS direct from a memory stick is also comparatively slow!)


So... How do we overcome the mis-education of some very powerful Marketing and years of FUD? How do we convince an entire generation who have seen nothing else in school other than Microsoft that there is something else?

Or can the present ecosystem be forged into something much more benign and useful and user friendly and less costly?


IT is what we make it,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

As soon as all the programs I wish to run are available on linux, I will give it serious consideration.

Until then, it does not matter. Running 2 operating systems or an emulator as a work around is just senseless.

---

Janice

Ok this is probally a stupid question,But does linux need a OS such as windows, to be able to work? Or can it run on its own?

If it cant run on its own, Why dont you go the next step and make a full blown OS.

From what im reading in here, Your up in arms because Microsoft is going to lock you out.

If you market the better mouse trap its about time to step up to the plate and swing.

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[/quote]

Old James

Ok this is probally a stupid question,But does linux need a OS such as windows, to be able to work? Or can it run on its own?

The only stupid question is the question that is never asked... ;-)

Linux is commonly used to describe the GNU/Linux operating system.

Yes, it runs all on its own. It can even host a virtual machine to then run other OSes (including Microsoft Windows).

Linux powers the majority of supercomputers and runs most of the internet. A variation called Android (Google Bionic 'OS' + Linux kernel) runs smartphones and graphics pads. There's other variations also.

If it cant run on its own, Why dont you go the next step and make a full blown OS.

Already done, which is why Microsoft has listed Linux as the number one competitor.

From what im reading in here, Your up in arms because Microsoft is going to lock you out.

If you market the better mouse trap its about time to step up to the plate and swing.

The problem is that Microsoft appears to be requiring that hardware manufacturers include a mechanism whereby the hardware only allows Microsoft approved software to run. This in effect could turn "Windows 8" logo PCs into something like a locked-down games console. In such a case, the user could be forbidden from making any modification to 'their' PC...


IT is all a question of our freedoms...
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

As soon as all the programs I wish to run are available on linux, I will give it serious consideration.

Until then, it does not matter. Running 2 operating systems or an emulator as a work around is just senseless.

I'm in full agreement there. When I swapped over from using Windows to instead use a Linux system, I had dual boot available for a few months. Linux gave me easy access to the Windows partition so that I could access my data (and development work). I ran the Windows version of the old s@h in the Linux WINE environment because at the time, that was the fastest combination.

I soon stayed in the Linux system. I've still got the old Windows but that hasn't tickled a CPU in many years. I still work with Windows systems elsewhere amongst the various systems that I support.


You should find that all the 'must have' applications have been directly ported over to Linux or that there is a good equivalent. The name and the look-and-feel might be slightly different but the functionality is usually good. Recently, applications are often developed on Linux and then ported over to other OSes from there.

The only lack is for some games that are locked-in to certain platforms.

Otherwise, it's all a question of personal taste and freedoms.

Happy crunchin',
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Thank you Martin. Now I know why you guys are ticked off. I cant see why Microsoft could tell anyone to lock out anybody on hardware that they didnt design.

I would hope that they all tell Microsoft to take a giant leap. That could be a break for Linux to get a foothold.

Im not adverse to using linux, But ive had my share of dos commands in windows 3.1. I really like using a mouse better.

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[/quote]

Old James