Not The WIndows 8 thread

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Message 1153884 - Posted: 19 Sep 2011, 13:45:23 UTC

Looks like the Windows people are rather too sensitive to comparisons... Hence a more open thread is offered here ;-)

From a certain other thread (that cannot be mentioned...)

Looks like Microsoft is already building up its campaign for the latest Windows revamp (or just a tweak up?):

Microsoft Hints To An August 2012 Win 8 Launch

... hints at a start-up LAUNCH event at the Microsoft Silicon Valley campus that Windows 8 could be on target for a Fall 2012 release...


And keeping on the theme of filesystems, I've found nothing more about the rumoured Microsoft "protogon" filesystem. Meanwhile, there is this interesting comparison from a PC reviewer:

Ubuntu Linux, Day 16: EXT4 vs. NTFS

... The default file system in Windows is NTFS, and the default file system in Ubuntu Linux is EXT4. The purpose of today's 30 Days With Ubuntu Linux post is to try and understand what the difference is, and whether or not you should care...


Quite a good interesting comparison. Look out for the sting in the tail! (And for what isn't mentioned...)



The Windows mobile devices look and feel looks clunky! No doubt some bling will be added to that to compare more favourably up against the various Android interfaces and the Ubuntu Unity GUI.

I like the Windows 8 target of booting up in less than 8 seconds. (Don't ya just love contrived Marketing numbers?!) However... I'm not so sure of the trickery being used to do that. The trick looks to be more of a "warm boot" from saving system state to disk rather than a full bootup. That's all well and fine provided everything works 'as expected' and a hard reboot isn't needed...


Meanwhile comparing to the world of Linux ;-)

"Systemd is now able to boot a system without invoking any shells at all. Under "ideal circumstances" it can get to a running user space less than one second after startup. Not everybody gets to run under ideal circumstances; the goal for the rest of us is less than ten seconds. There are some significant challenges in the way of getting there, though; for example, just loading the SELinux policy can take a few seconds by itself. Starting up the logical volume manager (LVM) can also take a while; Lennart proposes to fix that one by just removing LVM and using the volume management features in Btrfs instead." ...

(That's part of a recent meeting report 2011 Linux Plumbers Conference: Booting and systemd)

One neat aside is removing a whole load of config tweaks for:

There should also be multi-seat support. Imagine plugging in a USB hub with keyboard, mouse, audio port, and frame buffer device; Systemd will pick it up, start a GDM session, and all of it will just work with no configuration work required at all. This feature will be nice for settings like schools where one system can easily handle multiple users; he also noted that it can be highly useful for debugging embedded systems. Once upon a time, all Unix systems were multi-seat; he is, he said, just bringing back a feature that was in Unix at the very beginning. ...


Is that going to be another catch-up for Windows?



All good fun!

Cheers,
Martin




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Message 1153903 - Posted: 19 Sep 2011, 14:37:37 UTC - in response to Message 1153897.  

Linux people view Windows fanboys with the same disdain as Windows people view Apple fanboys.

It's the fanboy part that irritates people.

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Message 1153906 - Posted: 19 Sep 2011, 14:49:30 UTC

Desktop Operating System Market Share
Windows - 92.90
Mac - 6.03
Linux - 1.07


http://marketshare.hitslink.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=8&qpcustomd=0#

Like it or no.....its a Windows World out there an will be for a long long
time to come....and it has nothing to do with any percieved or superior
features of Linux.

Unitl Linux/Unix can be installed and used by non technical
and non-pc literate people it will remain a niche/hobbyist OS.



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Message 1153911 - Posted: 19 Sep 2011, 15:33:37 UTC
Last modified: 19 Sep 2011, 15:37:09 UTC

Scientists use mostly Linux and most supercomputers in the top500 list use Linux. So it is not a hobbyist OS. I am running SuSE Linux on my host and Scientific Linux on my BOINC_VM Virtual Machine in the Test4Theory@home BOINC project in the LHC@home 2.0 environment. I have used Windows98SE to fly my airplanes in Microsoft Flight Simulator.
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Message 1153930 - Posted: 19 Sep 2011, 16:58:23 UTC - in response to Message 1153897.  



Most Windows people could care less about Linux. But, Linux users seem to have some need to trash Windows. Perhaps it is a need to say "my private part is bigger than yours".


I'd hate to break it to you but Microsoft is doing a pretty good job of trashing Windows themselves

No need from us "Linux" guys to do it

But to be serious about this debate
I personally think that comparing Win to Linux is completely pointless
since it is all in the eye of the beerholder
Also that would be like comparing a Bentley to a Geo (you just can't)

I use both Win and Linux and both operating systems have their ups and downs
Yes i agree most servers run Linux nowadays hell even microsoft hosts their website and update server on linux machines

which reminds me of this very odd Microsoft comercial where they actually used a macbook with a sticker over Apple logo


I came down with a bad case of i don't give a crap
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Message 1153942 - Posted: 19 Sep 2011, 17:50:07 UTC - in response to Message 1153897.  


<snip>Perhaps it is a need to say "my private part is bigger than yours".

Anyway, enjoy Linux.



My private part(ition) is 1.5 TB NTFS

;)
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Message 1153948 - Posted: 19 Sep 2011, 18:33:26 UTC - in response to Message 1153942.  
Last modified: 19 Sep 2011, 18:40:38 UTC


<snip>Perhaps it is a need to say "my private part is bigger than yours".

Anyway, enjoy Linux.



My private part(ition) is 1.5 TB NTFS

;)

Quite a quote! :-)

I'll happily claim ReiserFS and ext4 and moving over to btrfs :-p


I support all of Windows, Mac, Android/Linux and GNU/Linux systems and enjoy Linux.

Other's tastes may deviate! ;-)

However, there does seem to be an excess of 'nervous' jealousy/fan-bo-ism over on the Windows side of things. Yet not so much so for the Apple Mac people... Differences in costs and Market segment?

Happy crunchin',
Martin


What is commonly known as "Linux" for servers and the desktop is actually the GNU operating system running on the Linux kernel. More recently, there is "Android" which is the Google Bionic OS running on the Linux kernel for use in smartphone and graphics pads mobile devices.

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Message 1153954 - Posted: 19 Sep 2011, 18:44:49 UTC

More seriously and getting back on-topic for the 'alternate' Windows 8 thread...

Looking at the Windows 8 alpha mock-up for their version for mobile devices, I was rather surprised for the very plain almost retro look to their demo. I'd expect that to see some radical polish before next year!

Note that for some, the "look" of a product can be the main factor to determine the life or death for that product!


Happy crunchin',
Martin


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Message 1153985 - Posted: 19 Sep 2011, 20:37:59 UTC

A couple of interesting snippets for Windows 8:

Microsoft's high-risk Windows 8 .NET switch

... Consequently, the Windows team took the once-in-a-decade opportunity to redo the Windows programming model, though bearing in mind that Windows 8 has a dual personality and includes traditional desktop Windows alongside the new Metro-style environment. Microsoft evaluated several approaches, including one based on Silverlight as in Windows Phone 7, but decided that the new runtime would not depend on .NET. ...


Blue Screen of Death gets makeover for Windows 8

... With Windows 8 it looks like Microsoft has finally realised it is better just to tell people to shut down and restart – something most ordinary PC users and IT support teams have known for years. ...



And a retrospective:

Ten years on from Nimda: Worm author still at large

The malware which began the Windows megaworm era


I guess that from that one, Microsoft learnt the hard way from the negative press against them (especially so for their IIS web servers) that 'security' should be enabled by default rather than left as a geekie cost-extra add-on...


Happy crunchin',
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Message 1153989 - Posted: 19 Sep 2011, 20:53:01 UTC

I have 3 machines on my desk. 1 is a windows pc, 1 is a linux pc and 1 is a vga swith! Linux does linuxy things and windows does windowsy things. No point comparing them.

I only have a windows machine as its easier to run GPU's on BOINC!

However using the various aspects in windows today reminded me why i went linux in the first place!
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Message 1154044 - Posted: 20 Sep 2011, 2:02:17 UTC - in response to Message 1153989.  

I have 3 machines on my desk. 1 is a windows pc, 1 is a linux pc and 1 is a vga swith! Linux does linuxy things and windows does windowsy things. No point comparing them.

I only have a windows machine as its easier to run GPU's on BOINC!

However using the various aspects in windows today reminded me why i went linux in the first place!



well said
I came down with a bad case of i don't give a crap
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Message 1154053 - Posted: 20 Sep 2011, 3:38:10 UTC
Last modified: 20 Sep 2011, 3:39:34 UTC

I tested Linux for some years, but I gave up.
For example, for to install the optimized S@h apps, I needed days.

Why can't the Linux people make a Linux which usage is like a Windows OS?
Windows, click with the mouse here and there - and fine.

Linux is for free, but very difficult to use (at least for non nerds like me ;-).


- Best regards! - Sutaru Tsureku, team seti.international founder. - Optimize your PC for higher RAC. - SETI@home needs your help. -
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Message 1154063 - Posted: 20 Sep 2011, 4:44:32 UTC

I don't use Linux for BOINC anymore...The setup was always a PITA.

I Desire Peace and Justice, Jim Scott (Mod-Ret.)
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Message 1154130 - Posted: 20 Sep 2011, 6:46:15 UTC
Last modified: 20 Sep 2011, 7:04:49 UTC

I always use the BOINC shell script to install a new version of BOINC on my SuSE Linux and it never fails. I also use the VirtualBox .run shell script and it never fails. Keep its simple, keep it it small, was a UNIX motto.
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Message 1154163 - Posted: 20 Sep 2011, 12:33:32 UTC - in response to Message 1154130.  

How many people have tried the Windows 8 developer preview yet?
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Message 1154463 - Posted: 21 Sep 2011, 12:43:05 UTC

Now this does get nasty!


Windows 8 secure boot would 'exclude' Linux

Microsoft wants to keep the keys inside

... proposed changes in firmware specifications may make it impossible to run “unauthorised” operating systems such as Linux and FreeBSD on PCs.

Proposed changes to the Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) firmware specifications would mean PCs would only boot from a digitally signed image derived from a keychain rooted in keys built into the PC. Microsoft is pushing to make this mandatory in a move that could not be overridden by users and would effectively exclude alternative operating systems...



What has Microsoft got to fear?... Is this a rerun of Microsoft's "Palladium" and supposed "Trusted Computing" euphemism?...


If only the Windows users knew the full story...

IT is what we make it!
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Message 1154467 - Posted: 21 Sep 2011, 12:50:34 UTC

Well Linux could allways make thier own PC's.
[/quote]

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Message 1154482 - Posted: 21 Sep 2011, 13:48:26 UTC - in response to Message 1154463.  
Last modified: 21 Sep 2011, 13:53:10 UTC

Now this does get nasty!

Windows 8 secure boot would 'exclude' Linux

Microsoft wants to keep the keys inside

... proposed changes in firmware specifications may make it impossible to run “unauthorised” operating systems such as Linux and FreeBSD on PCs. ...


I guess a leopard never changes its spots, even from many years ago... One of the many comments to that article:

ACPI again?

In Bill G's own words:

From: Bill Gates
Sent: Sunday, January 24, 1999 8:41 AM
To: Jeff Westorinon; Ben Fathi
Cc: Carl Stork; Nathan Myhrvold; Eric Rudder

Subject: ACPI extensions

One thing I find myself wondering about is whether we shouldn't try and make the "ACPI" extensions somehow Windows specific.

It seems unfortunate if we do this work and get our partners to do the work and the result is that Linux works great without having to do the work.

Maybe there is no way to avoid this problem but it does bother me.

Maybe we could define the APIs so that they work well with NT and not the others even if they are open.

Or maybe we could patent something related to this.

Source - Groklaw quote



One key to enslave them all? If only the Windows users knew the full story...

IT is what we make it!
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Message 1154483 - Posted: 21 Sep 2011, 13:52:18 UTC - in response to Message 1154467.  

Well Linux could allways make thier own PC's.

At present, there's a wide ranging industry building PCs. "Microsoft" is just one vendor of many that offer software for PCs.

So... You are happy for Microsoft to remove all other vendors from providing any software for PCs?

Remember the many (unchanging) years of Microsoft IE6?... All at what cost?


IT is what we make it!
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Message 1154498 - Posted: 21 Sep 2011, 14:26:54 UTC

Then we penguins should pay Microsoft, install VirtualBox and run Linux as a guest OS. Not my ideal solution.
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