UK Riots

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Message 1140720 - Posted: 15 Aug 2011, 7:35:22 UTC

Saw a report where amongst lots of businesses looted, one business not touched at all by The Violence. A Bookstore. There were Lots of Books in the Not Broken window.

Don't The Hoodies know Books make Good Fire?

Guess The Hoodies are doing plenty of electronic "Reading".

Ah, The Good ole Days. When a Young Person would idle The Time Away with a Good Book.

I am Null and Void and A Darwin Barnacle.
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Message 1140770 - Posted: 15 Aug 2011, 13:00:56 UTC
Last modified: 15 Aug 2011, 13:01:18 UTC

A bit of humour I saw in another project's forums ...

My TV is broken.

I wonder if I can go back to the shop and ask for my brick back?
It's good to be back amongst friends and colleagues



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Message 1140829 - Posted: 15 Aug 2011, 17:02:58 UTC - in response to Message 1140373.  
Last modified: 15 Aug 2011, 17:10:07 UTC


Now, taking this from Al Jazeera news agency, ref. the United Kingdom, http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2011/08/2011813174758183263.html:
    “Calls for those convicted to be stripped of their state welfare handouts and booted out of publicly owned housing were receiving growing popular support.

    Wandsworth Council in south London became the first local government to serve an eviction notice, on a tenant whose son has been charged. It will come into effect if he is convicted.”

If I get this correctly, a person may be convicted, and consequently one of his parents could be thrown on the street.

Was attempting to figure a suitable closing remark here, but am at loss of words.


Some words you might have used is that Al Jazeera have got their facts right and not twisted and sensationalised as some of the British Press. One headline in the UK on the front page of a tabloid newspaper said that a family had been evicted. As AlJazeera correctly stated, Wandsworth Council did no more that take the first step is serving notice, and it will be 6 months before their procedures will allow any eviction notice to be enforced.

As for "thrown on the street", that is your description of someone living in rented property who was broken the rules of tenancy and whose landlord has every right to get them them. The family will have to go and live somewhere else, as all of us have to live somewhere if we rent and end a tenancy for whatever reason. Instead of taking advantage of cheap council property they will have to find a private rental. Trash the coummunity around there, or steal or riot there, and I expect that the private landlord will have them out in far less than 6 months.

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Message 1140831 - Posted: 15 Aug 2011, 17:08:02 UTC - in response to Message 1140825.  
Last modified: 15 Aug 2011, 17:08:35 UTC

Looks like handbags at dawn. I thought we were all supposed to be working together to deal with this .....

Reaction

Miliband and the leftie Labour party have offered no solution or specific action, but only suggest an enquiry with, I presume, nothing done for some months. Meanwhile Cameron the rightie is voicing specific direction on what needs to be done, is being done and doing the job of leading the way. I say his handbag is definitley in front.

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Message 1140864 - Posted: 15 Aug 2011, 20:16:32 UTC - in response to Message 1140505.  

We know the drill. Mom works two jobs to get enough scratch to feed her brood and keep a roof over their heads. Dad is where? Kids come home to an empty house and raise hell and no one is there to know any better. I suppose Mom could pop home and lock the kid in a cage so it won't get into trouble.


No different to when I was a kid in the 50's & 60's. OK, so I had a dad but
both worked full time and myself, my brother and my two sisters all came home
to an empty house each day after school. Did we play-up, not likely, bought
up correctly we just all argued as to who's turn it was to have a cup
of tea waiting for mum when she got in from work. OK, so if we miss-behaved
we knew we would get a clip around the ear so this kept us on the straight
and narrow through our formative early years. As we got older so clip around
the ears disappeared and was replaced by stern talkings-to. But hey! by the time
we reached our very early teens we new societies rules so we followed them,
we knew the limits and hence kept within them. Well, clips around the ears
know are considered to be a form of child brutality. OK, so this was stopped
yet in the process no one thought about what was going to be used to replace
it with. Suddenly over night parents had to come up with another method of
child control, well, your not going to be able to do that overnight, and no,
quite a few parents obviously did not and still have not.

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Message 1140939 - Posted: 15 Aug 2011, 23:18:33 UTC - in response to Message 1140920.  

An alternative viewpoint.

Not to blame


That is pretty weak superficial reporting.

More thoughtful comment is given by my ex-MP Nick Palmer:

What should we do after the riots?

... Some thoughts:

1. We have a serious problem that goes beyond immediate riot control
Like pretty well everyone else, I'm appalled at the riots and I don't think
there's any excuse for the rioters – neither political nor social nor anything
else. But we need to be clear about the underlying problem. What the riots have
exposed is what people in rough areas have known for a long time: there are a
good many people – not all of them young – who will be as rough and as
acquisitive as they think they can get away with, and who don't see themselves
as part of an organised society at all.

It's important to understand the thought process here (understanding is not the
same as supporting). A typical rioter is, say, 18, male, and in a peer group
that values (a) toughness and (b) visible prosperity – bling, fashionable
clothes, the latest electronics, etc. He hears that general disorder has
stretched the police and there are lots of smashed windows and goods for the
taking. If he joins in, he may well get some cool goods to show his friends
(even share out, gaining even more kudos), and he can show he's really hard –
not afraid of the police or anyone else. And it sounds exciting and dramatic. He
might get caught and sent to prison for a bit, but even that might build his
reputation, and anyway he'll probably get away with it. Is he going to stay at
home and watch telly? No.

Part of this is utterly alien to most of us, and part of it isn't. The instinct
to do wrong things that you think you'll get away with is completely endemic in
Britain (to an extent that it isn't elsewhere in Northern Europe in my
experience). Speed on the road except where there's a camera; buy and sell goods
and services in cash to avoid tax; fiddle your expenses (yes, MPs – and not
just MPs); award yourself a gigantic bonus because you can; misuse your position
of control if the people you're dealing with won't complain. None of these
things are violent – but then nor is nipping into an already-broken window to
pinch something. It's just that in many circles some of these things are
semi-accepted behaviour, rather as larceny is accepted behaviour in the street
gangs.

As I've said, this isn't an excuse – two or indeed ten wrongs don't make a
right, and anyway violent crime and street disorder are a different matter from
petty larceny. But there is a general problem that we have an
ultra-individualist, frontier-style society in which looking after Number One is
seen as the norm.

2. What can we do about it? ...



Whatever the mix, we do need to keep a sense of community and keep people feeling that they in some way 'belong'. Communism failed due to anonymising the people and causing everyone to lose a sense of 'ownership'...


It's our only world,
Martin


See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)
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Message 1141120 - Posted: 16 Aug 2011, 6:01:43 UTC - in response to Message 1140939.  
Last modified: 16 Aug 2011, 6:06:44 UTC

An alternative viewpoint.

Not to blame


That is pretty weak superficial reporting.

I would say so. I mean, who would go to a riot/looting with a hammer strapped to their leg? I expect the god Odin would have something to say to his son Thor if he strapped his hammer to his leg for any reason. But then Odin would probably be baffled by Thor's choice of hammer support whereas the mother of the 13 year old was OK with her son trotting off to a riot and secreting a hammer in this way because the poor little dear was frightened. Frightened 13 year olds should stay at home during a riot, shouldn't they? Enforced by their parents and not excused afterwards as something not their responsibility?

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Message 1141995 - Posted: 18 Aug 2011, 8:49:07 UTC

"Questionable' sentences"

So far, more than 2,770 people have been arrested in connection with the riots and 1,297 people have been before the courts.

Speaking in Warrington on Wednesday, Mr Cameron said: "It's up to the courts to make decisions about sentencing, but they've decided to send a tough message and it's very good that the courts feel able to do that."

However, some MPs and campaigners have criticised the sentencing as too harsh. Lord Carlile, a Lib Dem peer and Howard League for Penal Reform president, said some decisions were "questionable".

The barrister told the BBC "ringleaders should receive very long sentences" but warned "there was an issue of proportionality" over the way people already before the courts had been treated.


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Message 1142955 - Posted: 20 Aug 2011, 4:09:30 UTC

Chris, I'm just Glad the Folks I Know over there are Safe.
Please continue with a few Updates.

I Desire Peace and Justice, Jim Scott (Mod-Ret.)
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Message 1143068 - Posted: 20 Aug 2011, 14:59:34 UTC

I have no faith whatsoever in this country's justice system when I see that rioters are getting 4 years for incitement using Facebook when B******'s like this walks away free..........


Yob grins at assault on 4 year old

..he should have been remanded in custody until the date of the trial.
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Message 1143232 - Posted: 20 Aug 2011, 23:20:26 UTC
Last modified: 20 Aug 2011, 23:21:03 UTC

Thanks heavens there's Private Eye to put things into perspective:

PrivateEye wrote:
"Youths armed with glass bottles, bricks and stones turned a high street into a warzone," reported the Tottenham and Wood Green Journal - not this month, but back in March.

Riot police took until 5 am to restore order as around 200 youths aged between 14 and 20 rampaged along Hornsey High Street. Police vehicles were damaged, people were arrested for violent disorder and one bar was stripped of its licence after the incident. Police Sergeant Michael Tisi told the local paper that even after he ws joined by several marked units: "I felt it was not safe for officers to intervene as we were massively outnumbered."

Oddly enough this incident wasn't even covered by London's Evening Standard; and it completely failed to spark copycat violence and moral panic across the country. Could this possibly be because the riot kicked off on 12 March while rolling TV news and social media were otherwise engaged following the Japanese earthquake and unfolding nuclear crisis?


For all those wishing to blame Twitter, Blackberry's, and all those other tech things the yoof use, the answer is much simpler: TV, ban that and you'll end riots spreading from one part of the country to another.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1143474 - Posted: 21 Aug 2011, 15:41:00 UTC

A slight kiss for the convicted from the cat-o-nine-tails (+ lead tipped tails) would be spectacular. No reduction of sentence possible.
It's good to be back amongst friends and colleagues



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Message 1143776 - Posted: 22 Aug 2011, 10:42:00 UTC

Twitter, Facebook and Blackberry called to Home Office to discuss role in riots

http://www.computerweekly.com/Articles/2011/08/19/247676/Twitter-Facebook-and-Blackberry-called-to-Home-Office-to-discuss-role-in.htm

Twitter, Facebook and Blackberry have been called to the Home Office next week to discuss the role of social media in the recent riots.

So far only Facebook has confirmed its attendance, although Blackberry has suggested it will also be there, reports the BBC.

The announcement follows prime minister David Cameron's speech in the House of Commons that the government will crack down on rioters using social networks to communicate.

"Free flow of information can be used for good. But it can also be used for ill. So we are working with the police, the intelligence services and industry to look at whether it would be right to stop people communicating via these websites and services when we know they are plotting violence, disorder and criminality," David Cameron said.

Blackberry has already announced it will co-operate with police after it was revealed rioters used the company's messaging service to co-ordinate attacks.


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Message 1144377 - Posted: 23 Aug 2011, 23:27:56 UTC - in response to Message 1143407.  
Last modified: 23 Aug 2011, 23:44:24 UTC

Private Eye is a satirical magazine, I doubt whether too much serious notice of their views will be taken.


Sad though I suspect your assessment is correct.

Another article from the same edition (No 1295):

PrivateEye wrote:
JOINED-UP GOVERNMENT

October 2010: Foreign office minister Jeremy Browne meets Facebook executives and asserts government's commitment to ensuring free access to social media under repressive regimes. "The right to freedom of expression is one of our most cherished values in the United Kingdom. However, this is not the case in large parts of the world. The rise of social media websites, such as Facebook, and the censorship they face has highlighted the complexities involved in freedom of expression on the internet. I am now working on how best to ensure that people throughout the world can benefit from access to free information and knowledge on the internet."

August 2011: David Cameron announces that "Everyone watching these horrific actions will be struck by how they were organised via social media. Free flow of information can be used for good. But it can be used for ill. And when people are using social media for violence we need to stop them. So we are working with the police, the intelligence services and industry to look at whether it would be right to stop people communicating via these websites when we know they are planning violence, disorder and criminality. I have also asked the police if they need any new powers."


Bad when other nations impose restrictions on one of the UK's most cherished values. Fine if it wants to do so itself. Does any one in the UK government know how to spell hypocrisy? What use is a "right" if the government can legislate it away?

Given that many appear to be convinced that technology plays a major role in riots I guess it's only a matter of time before we see Blair Peach's last tweet.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1147985 - Posted: 1 Sep 2011, 18:34:02 UTC
Last modified: 1 Sep 2011, 18:34:27 UTC

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Message 1148236 - Posted: 2 Sep 2011, 15:05:17 UTC

Hi Chris

Although some perps may deserve it I was advocating a painful form of corporal punishment, not capital punishment.

Off with their heads!!
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Message 1148265 - Posted: 2 Sep 2011, 16:59:51 UTC

Off with their heads? I'd start with the bankers.
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Message 1148282 - Posted: 2 Sep 2011, 18:06:29 UTC - in response to Message 1148265.  

Off with their heads? I'd start with the bankers.


followed by, politicians, lawyers & civil servants
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Message 1149094 - Posted: 5 Sep 2011, 5:43:30 UTC

oh jeez...single mums and civil servants bashed in one thread. Must be my lucky day.

Anyone who blames the single mums, the person who actually stayed behind and took responsibility for the child, is an idiot...and such nonsense as a women having foresight that the father is going to p*ss off and leave her to raise the kid, well clearly I'd love to know how one gets this foresight because I never saw it coming. I guess I'm just another lowlife.

Gotta love a country that throws parents in jail for what their kids do. I got threatened with jail repeatedly because my son wouldn't go to school. Do you know why he wouldn't go to school? Because at 12 years old he suffered a horrible attack that left him traumatised and he didn't want to leave the house. I'm sure putting me in jail would have helped the problem enormously. Yes, I was told I deserved to go to jail for not being able to get my child to go to school, however my priority at the time was getting him to a state where he wasn't suicidal.

So before we start throwing mums in jail or evicting them why don't we have a look at what is actually going on in their lives. Or is that too 'P.C.'??

If you think a good bout in the military will somehow fix things you might want to consider that 80% of homeless people in the US are ex-military. If the military is so good at sorting out people how do you explain that? I guess if they come back in a body bag they won't be a bother to you any more and you can stop trying to find real solutions to the problems rather than knee jerk ones that shift the blame onto an easy target.

For those at you who are bashing Civil Servants you might want to wonder who it is that helps protect the public from the worst the politicians can do. I was one for 5 years and a better bunch of people who took their duties very seriously you couldn't hope to meet. All of them were very aware that they worked for you and were spending your money. Be thankful that you have Civil Servants keeping an eye on the politicians.
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Message 1149113 - Posted: 5 Sep 2011, 7:48:26 UTC - in response to Message 1149094.  
Last modified: 5 Sep 2011, 7:58:45 UTC

...but who keeps an eye on the civil servants?

Civil Servants steal £1bn from taxpayers
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Message boards : Politics : UK Riots


 
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