Well, we're in it in Libya now.......

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Profile soft^spirit
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Message 1089579 - Posted: 23 Mar 2011, 11:38:23 UTC - in response to Message 1089578.  

We are losing freedom here because we are

Subject to having religious views shoved down our throats

Subject to unreasonable search and seizure in the name of safety from terror

Subject to loss of free speech, to gather freely and bargain collectively

Violation of rights is often farmed out to businesses, infringing on privacy
not DIRECTLY by the government, and far worse than the government could ever get away with.


The list goes on.





Funny, most of these started under Reagan.


Well then, tell obama to quit doing these things then.


Funny, most of these started under Reagan.

They have not gotten better. They were certainly made worse by Republicans all along the way.

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Message 1089669 - Posted: 23 Mar 2011, 16:58:42 UTC - in response to Message 1089579.  

We all had a very amusing day at the airport in Toronto when someone there asked my dear sweet Mother of 90 plus years of age, for some sort of picture ID. My Mum never learned to drive a car and at the time she did not have a passport. Lucky for all involved Mum's sweet smile and quick wit saved every ones face, so she boarded the aircraft with special dispensation. She now carries her passport in her purse all the time.
Not so lucky with Long Sufferin’ Marie, we had to pay for a provincial pitcher ID. My Marie is married to her chauffer.
It is a shame the stuff people must put up with, but until the airlines starts doing business the same as EL AL, if you want to fly you gotta’ put up.
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Message 1089736 - Posted: 23 Mar 2011, 20:50:57 UTC - in response to Message 1089732.  

We are losing freedom here because we are

Subject to having religious views shoved down our throats

Subject to unreasonable search and seizure in the name of safety from terror

Subject to loss of free speech, to gather freely and bargain collectively

Violation of rights is often farmed out to businesses, infringing on privacy
not DIRECTLY by the government, and far worse than the government could ever get away with.


The list goes on.





Funny, most of these started under Reagan.


Well then, tell obama to quit doing these things then.


Funny, most of these started under Reagan.

They have not gotten better. They were certainly made worse by Republicans all along the way.


Well, why hasn't obama fixed it yet?


Right now we are fighting to not lose more rights, like are being trampled on in Wisconsin and elsewhere, and every airport across the country.
And republicans are not very helpful in fixing anything. They like where things are broken, and try to break more things.
Janice
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Message 1089788 - Posted: 23 Mar 2011, 23:24:54 UTC - in response to Message 1089786.  

We are losing freedom here because we are

Subject to having religious views shoved down our throats

Subject to unreasonable search and seizure in the name of safety from terror

Subject to loss of free speech, to gather freely and bargain collectively

Violation of rights is often farmed out to businesses, infringing on privacy
not DIRECTLY by the government, and far worse than the government could ever get away with.


The list goes on.






Funny, most of these started under Reagan.


Well then, tell obama to quit doing these things then.


Funny, most of these started under Reagan.

They have not gotten better. They were certainly made worse by Republicans all along the way.


Well, why hasn't obama fixed it yet?


Right now we are fighting to not lose more rights, like are being trampled on in Wisconsin and elsewhere, and every airport across the country.
And republicans are not very helpful in fixing anything. They like where things are broken, and try to break more things.


The rights the public sector are fighting for in Wisconsin are bankrupting Wisconsin. Why do they have a right to bankrupt the state they live in?

And what rights are you talking about at airports? The right to carry a bomb on an airplane and blow it up?

The republicans are trying to fix things now, but the democrats in the senate and the president are blocking their efforts.



1: The seperation of the measure to a stand alone, direct union busting proved it had nothing to do with the budget. It was a right to collectively bargain being trampled, pure and simple.

2: constitutional guarantees against unwarranted search and seizure. If ones own body is not private, nothing is. The right of TSA workers to molest old ladies and children? I think not. Bomb making material can be hidden in body cavities. Shall we permit body cavity searches for everyone as well? If you need to be that safe, you deserve no freedom. Leave it to us and move to cuba.


The republicans have done nothing but make these things worse.
Janice
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Message 1089801 - Posted: 24 Mar 2011, 0:32:21 UTC - in response to Message 1089788.  

It's called the unwillingness of Conservatives to even attempt to negotiate with the public unions. They treat the public employees worse than the private sector. No private sector CEO would come out publicly and denounce his workforce as being overpaid (they aren't), Incompetent(incompetence gets you fired no matter where you work), and lazy(someone should look at productivity numbers, doing more with less). So instead of asking the unions to make a few budgetary cuts. they just decided to do an end around and eliminate talking.

But back to Libya. I am getting a little uneasy with all the countries that are just flaming up with unrest. Could it be that they entire middle east is tired of being poor and uneducated as a whole. Could these uprisings create more strife worldwide. Economies are suffering and the mass immigration problem is likely to cause more scapegoating and fear. It just takes one crazy person to spark up racial tensions and boom we have a massive war in the middle east. This won't be fun since the middle east is now much more heavily armed then it was in WWII


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Message 1089819 - Posted: 24 Mar 2011, 2:47:10 UTC - in response to Message 1089788.  
Last modified: 24 Mar 2011, 2:49:01 UTC

We are losing freedom here because we are

Subject to having religious views shoved down our throats

Subject to unreasonable search and seizure in the name of safety from terror

Subject to loss of free speech, to gather freely and bargain collectively

Violation of rights is often farmed out to businesses, infringing on privacy
not DIRECTLY by the government, and far worse than the government could ever get away with.


The list goes on.






Funny, most of these started under Reagan.


Well then, tell obama to quit doing these things then.


Funny, most of these started under Reagan.

They have not gotten better. They were certainly made worse by Republicans all along the way.


Well, why hasn't obama fixed it yet?


Right now we are fighting to not lose more rights, like are being trampled on in Wisconsin and elsewhere, and every airport across the country.
And republicans are not very helpful in fixing anything. They like where things are broken, and try to break more things.


The rights the public sector are fighting for in Wisconsin are bankrupting Wisconsin. Why do they have a right to bankrupt the state they live in?

And what rights are you talking about at airports? The right to carry a bomb on an airplane and blow it up?

The republicans are trying to fix things now, but the democrats in the senate and the president are blocking their efforts.



1: The seperation of the measure to a stand alone, direct union busting proved it had nothing to do with the budget. It was a right to collectively bargain being trampled, pure and simple.

2: constitutional guarantees against unwarranted search and seizure. If ones own body is not private, nothing is. The right of TSA workers to molest old ladies and children? I think not. Bomb making material can be hidden in body cavities. Shall we permit body cavity searches for everyone as well? If you need to be that safe, you deserve no freedom. Leave it to us and move to cuba.


The republicans have done nothing but make these things worse.


1) What right to collectively bargain? You seem to be very selective with rights. We still have Gitmo open, Military tribunals and Rendition. Not a peep from you. We have Islamic Law being used to decide outcomes within our borders. Not a peep from you. We have a government mandating we by health insurance against the constitution and not a peep from you. It seems as long as your getting your gubment cheese and swelling your voter base (Acorn, MoveOn, DailyKos, CodePink and the freak show over at MSNBC), you don't mind. So drop the selectivity. It's sickening.

2) TSA searches came about on YOUR watch. Check the timeline. It came about under Obama and a democratically controlled congress. Don't blame Republicans. That was Democrats, specifically your Kommunity Activist thru Janet Napolitano. Obama has a lot more in common with Castro and Stalin than any president we've had to date. He's learned well from the likes of Bernadine Dorn and Bill Ayers (and those 20+ lobbyists he put on his staff that he insisted he would never do during the campaign).

The hypocrisy is blaring.
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Message 1089825 - Posted: 24 Mar 2011, 3:07:07 UTC - in response to Message 1088540.  

In the US there are no good wars only good politics. The war that you support depends upon your political party.

It makes one long for the days when killing foreigners was not a matter of party politics when everyone could enjoy it.

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Message 1089828 - Posted: 24 Mar 2011, 3:15:26 UTC - in response to Message 1089819.  




2) TSA searches came about on YOUR watch. Check the timeline. It came about under Obama and a democratically controlled congress. Don't blame Republicans.
The hypocrisy is blaring.


I think you have your timeline wrong or have never flown before. I was subjected to an intense search and questioning, when I had to attend my Grandmothers funeral in Germany in 2002.

Other countries have been on the ball sooner, than the US. Britan, Germany and Holland are my personal references.

My first flight out of Europe was to Tunisia, the last stop was Tripoli. That was in 1971. The last security check was, you had to identify your luggage or it didn't make the plane. About five bags didn't.
Pluto will always be a planet to me.

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Message 1089830 - Posted: 24 Mar 2011, 3:21:52 UTC - in response to Message 1089819.  
Last modified: 24 Mar 2011, 3:53:08 UTC

"1) What right to collectively bargain? You seem to be very selective with rights. We still have Gitmo open, Military tribunals and Rendition. Not a peep from you. We have Islamic Law being used to decide outcomes within our borders. Not a peep from you. We have a government mandating we by health insurance against the constitution and not a peep from you. It seems as long as your getting your gubment cheese and swelling your voter base (Acorn, MoveOn, DailyKos, CodePink and the freak show over at MSNBC), you don't mind. So drop the selectivity. It's sickening.

2) TSA searches came about on YOUR watch. Check the timeline. It came about under Obama and a democratically controlled congress. Don't blame Republicans. That was Democrats, specifically your Kommunity Activist thru Janet Napolitano. Obama has a lot more in common with Castro and Stalin than any president we've had to date. He's learned well from the likes of Bernadine Dorn and Bill Ayers (and those 20+ lobbyists he put on his staff that he insisted he would never do during the campaign)."

1: Freedom of speech, freedom of assembly has been upheld by the Supreme court to include the right to collectively bargain. The Gitmo bit is old, tired, and
came from the Homeland security department formed under Dubya/Cheney. And shame on ALL congressman serving when it did. Your government cheese theory does not speak to the problems of working class(formerly middle class) people fighting to survive. Islamic law( from other thread) was being considered to determine the nature of the contract(as it should) and florida state law to judge. What part of that confuses you? The courts are not adopting sharia law, give it a rest and try to understand some of what goes on besides fear mongering.

2:TSA searches were introduced under DUBYA. They just took it too far under Obama. Waiting on lawsuits(or you could wake up your congress) to kill it now.
Calling every democrat and everyone left of.. um.. OFF THE RIGHT EDGE a communist is really getting tiresome.

Obama has been the best president since JFK. He makes me proud to be an American.
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Message 1089975 - Posted: 24 Mar 2011, 14:37:31 UTC - in response to Message 1089911.  

It's being reported that generally the rebels in Libya are mainly unco-ordinated, poorly trained, and have no modern weopons. Some observers are asking would it be right for the West to supply arms to the rebels? Some say it could shorten the war, save lives, and mean less foreign involvement. Others say it will just escalate things and make metters worse.


Chris, on this I think caution is needed, but the possibility is not out of the question.

Potential problems:
The Arms embargo to Lybia is still in force. It does not specify to which side not to sell arms to.

Arms do not go away or get returned when conflict is ended. They float around and can re-appear in the most inconvenient of ways. Some diplomacy and better understanding of who we are giving them to is a good idea.

If we are able to neutralize the artillery and tanks, supplying some small arms and ammo should be sufficient. But raining rockets is difficult for the opposition forces to deal with. They do have some heavy weapons, and that might be enough if those threats are removed.


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Message 1089992 - Posted: 24 Mar 2011, 15:35:21 UTC - in response to Message 1088545.  

Obama's war. This will pave the way for Palin. Scary times.

bush was talking about invading Libya for years. go watch the vids.
i love how everyone always blames the new president for things that have been happening for 8 years
good job being stereotypical.

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Message 1089993 - Posted: 24 Mar 2011, 15:35:58 UTC - in response to Message 1089911.  

It's being reported that generally the rebels in Libya are mainly unco-ordinated, poorly trained, and have no modern weopons. Some observers are asking would it be right for the West to supply arms to the rebels? Some say it could shorten the war, save lives, and mean less foreign involvement. Others say it will just escalate things and make metters worse.


the very same thing bush did with iraq; he gave them weapons.
remember what happened there?

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Message 1090110 - Posted: 24 Mar 2011, 22:16:01 UTC - in response to Message 1089578.  
Last modified: 24 Mar 2011, 23:04:40 UTC

We are losing freedom here because we are

Subject to having religious views shoved down our throats

Subject to unreasonable search and seizure in the name of safety from terror

Subject to loss of free speech, to gather freely and bargain collectively

Violation of rights is often farmed out to businesses, infringing on privacy
not DIRECTLY by the government, and far worse than the government could ever get away with.


The list goes on.






Well then, tell Obama to quit doing these things then.


This is to all of those who are against the US being involved above and offshore of Libya...

It's President Obama.

It is the Republicans who are behind, Letting Corporat America run roughshod over America, By defunding agencies like NOAA, EPA, FCC, FDA, etc...

As to the people in Libya, As Soft Spirit said, They started out as Protesters only and they had no weapons, Qaddafi started the shooting and bombing, That caused defections from His Military and from Tribes who used to support Him as He was killing people who opposed Him and Who at the time were unarmed.

Qaddafi is the one employing the Mercs, Not the Rebels, Mercs are paid soldiers, So how could they work for FREE? As the Rebels have no money yet, As all of Libyas external resources(assets) are FROZEN...

Qaddafi(the Mad Duk) and His forces routinely call for Ceasefires and then Keep on shooting at people, His word means less than nothing as He can't be trusted, Retired President Ronald Reagan called Qaddafi the “Mad Dog of the Middle East".

I for one am glad the US did what little We did and How We did It, Dennis(the menace) Kucinich isn't exactly liked by either side in Congress, In a few Days the US will bow out as the one country coordinating the mission as NATO is according to CNN taking over coordinating the mission. Heck I just wish Dennis would just retire.

The F15 that crashed due to It being old that had the two personnel who had to eject, They are considered Heros by the Libyan Rebels, Who We should support, with weapons, ammunition & whatever else our rich nation can give, Like medical supplies and food, While they with coalition air cover, spray the insects who are murdering Women, Children, Doctors, Hospital Patients and the Elderly.

To stand idly by and do nothing makes US guilty of condoning Mass murder, And anyone who does condone this by wanting to do nothing, One may as well put on a Swastika armband, Cause You've not learned anything from WWII(The Great Patriotic War to Russians, I think) in Europe and the NAZI death camps(Labor My ass).

In short Shame on You who are against this Noble cause and who are distorting the facts and presenting the word of FAUX news as fact, When It's really lying corporat propaganda...
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Message 1090112 - Posted: 24 Mar 2011, 22:21:26 UTC - in response to Message 1089975.  

It's being reported that generally the rebels in Libya are mainly unco-ordinated, poorly trained, and have no modern weopons. Some observers are asking would it be right for the West to supply arms to the rebels? Some say it could shorten the war, save lives, and mean less foreign involvement. Others say it will just escalate things and make metters worse.


Chris, on this I think caution is needed, but the possibility is not out of the question.

Potential problems:
The Arms embargo to Lybia is still in force. It does not specify to which side not to sell arms to.

Arms do not go away or get returned when conflict is ended. They float around and can re-appear in the most inconvenient of ways. Some diplomacy and better understanding of who we are giving them to is a good idea.

If we are able to neutralize the artillery and tanks, supplying some small arms and ammo should be sufficient. But raining rockets is difficult for the opposition forces to deal with. They do have some heavy weapons, and that might be enough if those threats are removed.


Agreed, Neutralize Qaddafi's advantages and the small arms, ammunition and spare parts the Rebels are receiving(covertly from Egypt for some Rebel occupied & repaired Tanks w/the help of some clandestine Egyptian repair techs) should be enough to defeat Qaddafi, Eventually.
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Message boards : Politics : Well, we're in it in Libya now.......


 
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