Michael wrote:

By the end of this current century man will look back and say "Well what ever, new technology came to the fore and burning fossil fuels was something they did back in dem' old'n days"[/quote]


If so then we need to deploy and manage nuclear power and electrify our railroads and mandate electric heat/hot water/ dryer/stoves for new home construction. Also mincentives for electric commuter cars up to 120 mile range

Beantowners will soon walk from one of the nation’s first photovoltaic-powered train stations to Fenway Park to watch their beloved Boston Red Sox play. Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick (D), Lieutenant Governor Timothy Murray (D) and Boston Mayor Thomas Menino (D) were on hand Nov. 15 to break ground at the Yawkey Commuter Rail Station reconstruction project, which will be a net-zero energy project when completed, thanks to 212 kilowatt (kW) PV installation.

The $13.5 million station reconstruction is part of a $450 million Fenway Center development project that’s being financed through the Massachusetts Works recession recovery program.

“When completed, Yawkey Station will be a full-service commuter rail station—more than doubling service on the Worcester-Framingham Commuter Rail Line from 17 to 40 stops per day. The station construction is expected to create 150-200 jobs,” according to the Massachusetts Department of Transportation.

“The solar PV array connected to Yawkey Station is projected to generate 212,000 kWh [i.e. kilowatt hours] per year," said John Rosenthal, president of project developer Meredith Management. "We conservatively project that the station will use 200,000 kWh, so the solar plant will generate more electricity than the Station uses, therefore it is expected to be a zero net energy station.”

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Janice

Michael wrote:

By the end of this current century man will look back and say "Well what ever, new technology came to the fore and burning fossil fuels was something they did back in dem' old'n days"

William wrote....

If so then we need to deploy and manage nuclear power and electrify our railroads and mandate electric heat/hot water/ dryer/stoves for new home construction. Also mincentives for electric commuter cars up to 120 mile range[/quote]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yes, there needs to be a stop-gap to reduce the need to burn fossil fuels. Nuclear generation of power has to be the main one. But for transport i.e. cars, trucks etc. battery power at the moment is not providing the answer, I doubt if it finally does provide this answer here. Between the discovery of the candle and the discovery of the light bulb gas lighting filled the gap but only for a very short period of time. This is how I see it for the battery, as a stop-gap between burning petrol and the next form of energy to be utilized for powering all types of transportation.

I say this next form of energy is here, we just need to discover it, electricity is now getting a little bit long-in-the-tooth.

What a boondoggle! 212000 KWH works out to an average of 25KW generating capacity. This is not earth shattering. Of course it would be higher since there is no sun at night. $465 million ?? where do I apply to bid on this job?

At 10 cents per kWH that works out to an annual value of $21,200. Again, hardly earth shattering.

With this kind of feel-good nonsense we will never get to the use of alternative energy and the idea of it will fall on the dust-bin of history as yet another false religion.

There are the following possibilities for alternative transportation,

LNP
Propane
Hydrogen
Electric (commuting up to 100 miles round trip)
Alcohol

My money is on electric for a good portion of commuting to work. If provided by Nuclear it doesn't produce the deadly (LOL) CO-2.

... With this kind of feel-good nonsense we will never get to the use of alternative energy ...

Unfortunately, I agree.

There's an awful lot of "greenwash" being used to push overrated and/or overpriced shoddy or outright fraudulent products to prey on people's green hopes (and conscience).

I guess the con artists and Marketing can price guilt and conscience very high. Hence there will be a lot of expensive silliness until people become more aware...


I just hope that people and the politicians will become aware soon enough...

It's all our only planet,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

This was not 465 million. It was 13.5 million for the station. Entire construction. A small portion of the 465 million project ( which most of is
more than likely a boondoggle).

A self powered facility is not to be under-estimated. And I would like to know where I can buy electricity for .10/kwh

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Janice

A brave attempt makes a start:


UK launches woodland carbon code

The UK Forestry Commission has published guidelines for schemes that plant trees in order to absorb carbon. ...

..."The important thing to remember is that woodlands are not just carbon sponges - they are also vital in supporting a range of threatened wildlife," he said.

"They must also be planted in the right places - much of our wildlife-rich natural landscapes such as lowland heathland have been destroyed by irresponsible, poorly planned tree-planting."

He added: "Unfortunately, this code does not go far enough when it comes to promoting the restoration of some important wildlife habitats like peat bogs.

"UK forestry has a vital role in addressing climate change, not by planting new woodlands, but by restoring peat bogs that were inappropriately drained and planted with forestry.

"These important carbon stores can and should be restored, both to help tackle climate change and to provide important sites for wildlife."

Commenting on the launch of the code, Forestry Commission chairwoman Pam Warhurst said that tree-planting projects were beneficial for organisations for a range of reasons. ...

...The UK's woodlands, which cover about 12% of the nation's land area, are estimated to absorb about 2% of its annual greenhouse gas emissions.

(Forests cover almost one half of Europe's land area, but only cover about 12% of the UK)


Might also undo the country-changing destruction done in building our navy!


It's the only planet we have,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

So how does an ancient forest the size of Greece, destroyed wildlife, and a few thousand poisoned people compare against a "$1.7 trillion impact"?...

It's our only one planet,
Martin

Greece is an awfully small place.

Compare it to the Sahara which went from grassland and forests during the last ice age to more or less its present condition about 2000 BC. We did not notice that "disaster." And people who lived there didn't even use oil. Imagine that!

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Unvarnished
Haaretz
Jerusalem Post
The origin of the Yahweh Cult

A town has a single barber. The men in the town either shave themselves or go to the barber. The barber is a man who only shaves those who don't shave themselves. Does the barber shave himself or Who shaves the barber.

His bookie.

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Unvarnished
Haaretz
Jerusalem Post
The origin of the Yahweh Cult

Let's see now. We had global warming so we need to emit less CO-2 and therefore we need to burn less coal. Oh, but we really didn't have global warming since we were burning coal. So if we want global warming we should not burn coal. ...

Very good. So you can blindly play the Matt Giwer word-games trick with blind disregard to all real meaning.

My vain is taken in name I see. I'm gone for a while because I forget undergraduate posting rules and you run amok again.

Such is the art of blind denial? You've just given a classic example.

I thought I had pointed out nearly two decades of LIES by the believers with their insane "ten years or else" nonsense.

OK, fine. They are not lying. Where do I read their explanation as to why it was not really 10 but 11 then 12 then 13 then ... years? Something must have changed for their "predictions" to be wrong. If nothing has changed then they were lying. Where can we read the math for the ten year predictions which were conducted each and every year the predictions were made? There are none? Then they were clearly lying and deliberately lying.[/quote]

But you refuse to address the WELL ESTABLISHED and INCONTROVERTIBLE fact that melters are liars and have been since at least 1990.

You freely say people are blind yet you appear to be blind to decades of lies. It was all too late in 2000 so buy and SUV and party!

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Unvarnished
Haaretz
Jerusalem Post
The origin of the Yahweh Cult

Many centuries ago the feeble minds in the monasteries considered the question, do we live in the best of all possible worlds. It was a god/creation question suitable for the feeble-minded. The good news is they lost interest before they committed to a terminally stupid answer.

But today, we have the answer. We do live in the best of all possible worlds. If it were warmer it would be worse. Back in the good old days of the coming ice age if it were colder it would be worse.

Thus the present temperature, even though it has always changed throughout recorded history and since Homo Sapiens appeared, the post little ice age pre-industrial temperature in those ten years was the best it could possibly be. Forever and ever, Amun, the father of all the gods.

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Unvarnished
Haaretz
Jerusalem Post
The origin of the Yahweh Cult

This was not 465 million. It was 13.5 million for the station. Entire construction. A small portion of the 465 million project ( which most of is
more than likely a boondoggle).

A self powered facility is not to be under-estimated. And I would like to know where I can buy electricity for .10/kwh

Here you go.
you may need a zip code. Use 76022 you'll see some dirt(y) cheap rates for Texas

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In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

Well, you can add these sums into the maths:


An example of what extreme weather can do in the short term:

Great Barrier Reef: Rising turtle deaths prompt warnings of wildlife crisis

Unusually large numbers of dead and dying sea turtles are washing up on Australia's Great Barrier Reef coast, prompting environmental groups to warn of a wildlife crisis in the region.

Researchers and local residents have reported that several Queensland beaches have been strewn with the carcasses of the animals...

... Dugongs are also suffering badly, with 96 of the aquatic mammals reported dead in the first seven months of the year, compared with 79 in the whole of 2010.

Sick and starving turtles have been observed approaching the shallows, where they invariably die. Researchers believe that a severe loss of sea grass, the turtles' staple food source, is to blame for the escalating death toll.

Widespread floods and the subsequent Cyclone Yasi, which hit northern Queensland in February, wiped out around 90% of the seagrass...



And a longer term example of what is ongoing:


Climate change driving species out of habitats much faster than expected

Animals and plants have adapted to warming by moving regions up to three times faster than previously thought, report shows

... The bird has moved 150 kilometres further north within the UK in the last 40 years, in response to the changing climate.

Cetti's warbler is not alone – the little egret has now colonised Britain, which had previously been too cold for the bird; and the comma butterfly can now be found in Edinburgh, at least 220 kilometres north of its former central England home.

These changes, in response to global warming, have happened two to three times faster than was previously expected...


So... What is the simple maths of reducing CO2 output vs the cost of moving entire cities and countries?


This is our only planet,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

wow interesting. Although I see some are "teaser" rates...
Still Bedford Texas? I prefer to stay in the USA.

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Janice

A good rate for electric cars would be 5 cents per Kilowatt hour if used at night. Don't think well see it though.

So... Does this add up?

Australian PM Julia Gillard presents carbon tax bill

Australian Prime Minister Julia Gillard has presented her bill for a controversial carbon tax to parliament.

The legislation would force about 500 of the biggest polluters to pay for each tonne of carbon dioxide they emit.

The tax is central to the government's strategy to combat climate change, but the opposition say it will cause job losses and raise the cost of living. ...

... Addressing the House of Representatives, Ms Gillard said her task and that of parliament was to lead the country through a world undergoing change.

"The jobs of the future are clean energy jobs. Employment is projected to grow strongly with a carbon price," she said, adding that 1.6 million jobs would be created in the next eight years.

"Today we move from words to deeds. This parliament is going to get this done," she said, to [both] cheers and howls in parliament. ...



This is the only planet we have...
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

So... Does this add up?

Australian PM Julia Gillard presents carbon tax bill

Australian Prime Minister Julia Gillard has presented her bill for a controversial carbon tax to parliament.

The legislation would force about 500 of the biggest polluters to pay for each tonne of carbon dioxide they emit.

The tax is central to the government's strategy to combat climate change, but the opposition say it will cause job losses and raise the cost of living. ...

... Addressing the House of Representatives, Ms Gillard said her task and that of parliament was to lead the country through a world undergoing change.

"The jobs of the future are clean energy jobs. Employment is projected to grow strongly with a carbon price," she said, adding that 1.6 million jobs would be created in the next eight years.

"Today we move from words to deeds. This parliament is going to get this done," she said, to [both] cheers and howls in parliament. ...



This is the only planet we have...
Martin

Any evidence yet that taxing carbon has reduced the amount of carbon being
emitted into the atmosphere?

simply put, it makes high carbon emitters carry a larger portion of their damage. Helps level the playing field. The system needs a LOT of work to make it realistic.

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Janice

simply put, it makes high carbon emitters carry a larger portion of their damage. Helps level the playing field. The system needs a LOT of work to make it realistic.

At this present time then I must assume the answer is no.

simply put, it makes high carbon emitters carry a larger portion of their damage. Helps level the playing field. The system needs a LOT of work to make it realistic.

At this present time then I must assume the answer is no.

I would say yes. Just not significant yet.

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Janice