Naughty Intel to now behave?

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Message 1022676 - Posted: 5 Aug 2010, 11:53:59 UTC

It's been a very long time coming:


FTC settles Intel lawsuit to 'help consumers'

'Disturbing behavior' curbed

[...]

...the FTC sought something far more troubling to Intel: changing the company's anticompetitive behavior.

[...]

Leibowitz said in the press conference that Intel also engaged in predatory design practices, which didn't improve the performance of its chips but did thwart the ability of competitors to integrate with Intel's chips. The settled lawsuit also alleged that Intel's CPU compilers were designed expressly to make AMD's chips perform badly.

Intel also threatened to sue Advanced Micro Devices and VIA Technologies, makers of clone x86 processors with cross-licensing agreements with Intel, for violation of their licensing agreements if they transferred manufacturing of their products to a third party. The net effect, said the FTC commissioners, was that if an Intel rival had a hit product, they had limited ability to scale up production to compete against Intel. "A good deal of Intel's competitive advantage over the years has been its capacity," said Richard Feinstein, director of the FTC's Bureau of Competition.

As part of the consent decree, Intel cannot pay PC and server makers to not take chips from AMD, VIA, or anyone else...

[...]

Intel also has to kick in $10m for a fund to help pay ISVs that want to recompile for rival processors but who were misled by Intel's compilers into believing that AMD Athlon or Opteron chips were inferior to Intel Core and Xeon products. The fund will help cover the cost of recompiling applications on AMD iron. In the future, Intel has to disclose optimizations it has made in the compilers for its own chips and make similar disclosures in its benchmark tests. ...



All very good but all very very late. Has all the damage already been done?

It has certainly been very costly for all the users...


Happy crunchin',
Martin



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Message 1022697 - Posted: 5 Aug 2010, 13:57:18 UTC - in response to Message 1022676.  

Maybe it is just me. But I have always had better real life experience with
intel chips than AMD chips. They have over all performed better and longer.

I know others swear by AMD, I just do not share their experience. The same
goes to my graphics preference for Nvidia.
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Message 1022729 - Posted: 5 Aug 2010, 15:27:50 UTC - in response to Message 1022697.  
Last modified: 5 Aug 2010, 15:30:17 UTC

I prefer AMD for the cost and the stick in Intels eye. I've lost favor with intel and Nvidia several years ago for multiple reasons and havent looked back.

It looks like Intel is getting hit on all fronts from the US EU and soon the pacific rim. That cant be good for the bottom line


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Message 1022733 - Posted: 5 Aug 2010, 15:35:25 UTC

I'm glad to see anti-competitive practices being properly addressed, all be it far too late IMHO. Free markets only work as long as there is good competition, genuine free flow of information and freedom to switch between products easily and without penalty. To many anti-competitive practices are the norm in too many market segments, with deliberate (and still legal for some reason) lock-in as well as the illegal practices mentioned.

My Anecdote:
I've had better experiences with AMD and ATI on the desktop, although Intel have generally (since demise of P4) ahead in the mobile space and the openness of their graphics drivers is great for me as a linux user.

All our anecdotes are very well but I wonder if anyone has done a proper statistically controlled comparison of reliability? - not an easy thing to do i'm guessing.

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Message 1022746 - Posted: 5 Aug 2010, 16:25:08 UTC

Well my old P4 with Intel chip has been running seti 24/7 since 2004.
[/quote]

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Message 1022751 - Posted: 5 Aug 2010, 16:29:20 UTC - in response to Message 1022746.  

with a life expectancy of 10 years of us the chip has 4 more to meet specs.


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Message 1022754 - Posted: 5 Aug 2010, 16:33:41 UTC

I have been using a Pentium 1 from 1996 to 2000, a PII Deschutes from 2000 to 2008, and am now using an Opteron 1210 with 2 cores, always running Linux. But I still remember my last BULL/MIPS minicomputer, a RISC machine running UNIX.
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Message 1022755 - Posted: 5 Aug 2010, 16:33:49 UTC - in response to Message 1022751.  

I have a K6 system under the bed that still runs as new if I connect it all up and a 386SX clone with a 2x CD drive (you have to put the CD in a sort of cassette to use it) which also functions fine.. I should really dispose of them but it seems a shame when they still work.
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Message 1022756 - Posted: 5 Aug 2010, 16:40:38 UTC - in response to Message 1022746.  
Last modified: 5 Aug 2010, 16:49:22 UTC

Interestingly, if I may ask, with how much downtime?

Is there anyone with a several-years-old machine that has been on 24/7 with perfect uptime (UPS to the rescue if need be)?
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Message 1022757 - Posted: 5 Aug 2010, 16:41:13 UTC - in response to Message 1022733.  

the only intel failures I have had have been due to fan failures(you could hear it grinding to a halt before the chip died). I have never "replaced" one, since by the time that happens it is long past due to update.

Still antecdote, but I am not sure how much more I can expect. That.. and the applications I run work much better/smoother than on a comparable AMD.

The anti-trust things, they can work out in the court rooms. AMD's have often tested better, but I have never been able to duplicate that in real world environment. If a programs code is optimized for AMD, mileage may vary.
*shrug* Run what ya brung. I still have an AMD computer clunking away, the price was right and it had the graphics slot I needed at that time. But 60% of 2 cores gets me about 200wu/day on CPDN. If it was not for the graphics card, it would be unplugged by now.
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Message 1022759 - Posted: 5 Aug 2010, 16:43:09 UTC - in response to Message 1022756.  

Interestingly, if I may ask, with how much downtime?

Is there anyone with a severa-years-old machien tht has been on 24/7 with perfect uptime (UPS to the rescue if need be)?


My P4 has no UPS. Its plugged in the wall. Only extended time it was down was when I took a 2 week vacation. Its shut down now because of no work.
[/quote]

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Message 1022769 - Posted: 5 Aug 2010, 17:09:16 UTC - in response to Message 1022759.  

Interestingly, if I may ask, with how much downtime?

Is there anyone with a severa-years-old machien tht has been on 24/7 with perfect uptime (UPS to the rescue if need be)?


My P4 has no UPS. Its plugged in the wall. Only extended time it was down was when I took a 2 week vacation. Its shut down now because of no work.

For comparison.

Same here, no UPS. My 1995 Micron Millennia Mxe 200MHz Pentium MMx P55 128MB UW2SCSI has been running 24/7 since the beginning of SETI except for OS upgrades & power outages. I also have a 2001 Gateway Solo 9550 1.2GHz Pentium III M notebook doing the same.

...
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Message 1022787 - Posted: 5 Aug 2010, 18:13:04 UTC - in response to Message 1022756.  
Last modified: 5 Aug 2010, 18:13:55 UTC

Interestingly, if I may ask, with how much downtime?

Is there anyone with a several-years-old machine that has been on 24/7 with perfect uptime (UPS to the rescue if need be)?


My old 386 & 486 as well as an amd-k5 running linux have been running 24/7 other than occasional clean outs, Ps fan replacements, power outages due to storms since
1996 (probably a couple yrs less on the amd)

They function as my mail & dns servers as well as a old school cert web server

I've also got a couple p4's that run seti they are maybe 5 yrs old
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Message 1022905 - Posted: 6 Aug 2010, 3:52:05 UTC - in response to Message 1022787.  
Last modified: 6 Aug 2010, 3:52:39 UTC

Talking about Intel vs. AMD is like religion or politics... one should avoid it. Unfortunately I am not good with keeping my mouth shut.

My Pentium 150 from 1995 still works, while quite a few AMD's are long forgotten and in the recycle bin. So there :)

EDIT: No fan cleaning necessary ... it has none
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Message 1022961 - Posted: 6 Aug 2010, 7:54:43 UTC

Intel rocks.

AMD could have come up with their own compiler long ago and promoted it as being more tuned to their processors than Intel's compiler.

Sour grapes that they did not devote the resources to doing so.

They chose to piggyback on Intel's efforts, and then whine because Intel chose to optimize for their own product rather than accommodate their competitor.

What BS.
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Message 1022963 - Posted: 6 Aug 2010, 8:06:53 UTC - in response to Message 1022961.  

All I can say is FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

Pluto will always be a planet to me.

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Message 1022965 - Posted: 6 Aug 2010, 8:13:27 UTC

And before I get any gaff from the pro-AMD camp.........

Let me remind you that my first computer was based on a 233mmx Intel.......
But I switched to AMD Semprons when they offered the best bang/buck.

I changed back when the core2 processors came out and they proceeded to kick AMD's butt right off of the Seti boards in terms of processing power and overclockablility.

The top 2 hosts on the project happen to be AMD's right now........
But that's because of the GPUs they are hosting.
Not because of their processing power.

Everything else on down is all Intel.

If GPUs were not factored in, I would hazard a guess that there would still not be an AMD in the top 100.
"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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Message 1022978 - Posted: 6 Aug 2010, 8:38:09 UTC
Last modified: 6 Aug 2010, 8:57:46 UTC

I wish somebody would give me a RISC processor at a modest price. Once there was an Acorn Risc Microprocessor, which no longer exists. Olivetti bought Acorn and sold it. Now ARM microprocessors built on a patent based on the Advanced Risc Machine derived from the Acorn micro power most of the cell phones in the world.
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Message 1023062 - Posted: 6 Aug 2010, 14:22:04 UTC - in response to Message 1022978.  
Last modified: 6 Aug 2010, 14:23:17 UTC

I wish somebody would give me a RISC processor at a modest price. ...

All present day x86 CPUs are RISC-like that then interpret the x86 CISC instructions. You can even reprogram your CPU to behave like a very different CPU rather than follow x86 instructions.


Out of all the Intel dirty deeds, I just wonder what open fair competition between Intel and AMD would have produced in accelerated designs. Instead, we'll never know due to Intel's Marketing driven dive into the P4 silliness and Intel's very successful dirty tricks to starve AMD and others of funds.

Hey, we may well have seen 3 major competing designs by different manufacturers now... The CPU market is certainly big enough for that.


All very dirty and very costly for all of us!

Happy crunchin',
Martin
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Message 1023065 - Posted: 6 Aug 2010, 14:29:34 UTC

I still remember an Intel RISC processor (80880?) described in a IEEE Spectrum article. But Intel never sold it, for marketing reasons. Marketing rules.
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Message boards : Number crunching : Naughty Intel to now behave?


 
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