ReSchedule: Unfair point system

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Profile Frizz
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Message 1020943 - Posted: 30 Jul 2010, 21:08:15 UTC

It's obvious that my wingmate (Computer 5468920) has rescheduled a WU from CPU to GPU.

http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/workunit.php?wuid=634573298

So instead of approx. 120 points we only got 18 points - because we both used GPU apps.

I find this unfair because you should get the same amount of points no matter whether your task is done with CPU or GPU.

What do the developers think?
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Message 1020948 - Posted: 30 Jul 2010, 21:22:46 UTC - in response to Message 1020943.  

This one is even better:

http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/workunit.php?wuid=624563605

6.28 points for the guy with the CPU for about 3 hours compute time.
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Message 1020949 - Posted: 30 Jul 2010, 21:23:05 UTC - in response to Message 1020943.  

...
What do the developers think?

The BOINC developers think it doesn't matter because the averaging system means a low grant for one task means other tasks will get slightly higher grants to eventually balance out. How fair that will be long term may be hard to discern. It certainly ignores human psychology, it is natural to notice the exceptional cases.
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Message 1020981 - Posted: 30 Jul 2010, 22:31:49 UTC - in response to Message 1020943.  

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Message 1021140 - Posted: 31 Jul 2010, 8:36:49 UTC

What?

If I reschedule a CPU WU to GPU it will get less Cr.?

Is it not like this that the new Cr.-System isn't finished balanced?

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Message 1021180 - Posted: 31 Jul 2010, 12:06:15 UTC - in response to Message 1020948.  

This one is even better:

http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/workunit.php?wuid=624563605

6.28 points for the guy with the CPU for about 3 hours compute time.



I've had a few like that in recent weeks, but not that bad. However, there have also been WUs, where I've been granted about 170 credits, for less than two hours CPU time - I once got nearly 300 credits for a two-and-a-half hour CPU 'crunch'. I guess, its 'swings and roundabouts'. If there was a 'full-blown' ATI S@H app, that I could run my HD4890 on, I'd probably be like a dog with two tails!




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Message 1021187 - Posted: 31 Jul 2010, 12:48:04 UTC - in response to Message 1021140.  

What?

If I reschedule a CPU WU to GPU it will get less Cr.?

Is it not like this that the new Cr.-System isn't finished balanced?

Is this with both reschedulers?
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Message 1021188 - Posted: 31 Jul 2010, 12:49:32 UTC - in response to Message 1021180.  

Iona

there is a lunatics opp app now for astroP which is for ATI cards - not full seti but a start

have not tried it my self as my ATI card is agp and the cpu is old and does not support sse3 or i would give it a try

http://lunatics.kwsn.net/index.php?module=Downloads;catd=40

or a bit more info

http://lunatics.kwsn.net/index.php - need to scroll down a bit
Tim

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Message 1021195 - Posted: 31 Jul 2010, 13:07:32 UTC - in response to Message 1021188.  
Last modified: 31 Jul 2010, 13:08:07 UTC

Iona

there is a lunatics opp app now for astroP which is for ATI cards - not full seti but a start

have not tried it my self as my ATI card is agp and the cpu is old and does not support sse3 or i would give it a try

http://lunatics.kwsn.net/index.php?module=Downloads;catd=40

or a bit more info

http://lunatics.kwsn.net/index.php - need to scroll down a bit

The ATI Hybrid Astropulse app is a SSE app, no need for SSE3, and it should run O.K on your agp card,
I've run it on my XP3200 with it's AGP HD4650 no probs, but i'd run the r409 CPU app first to get a reference time,

Claggy
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Message 1021198 - Posted: 31 Jul 2010, 13:09:58 UTC

Dont think it matters much if you reschedule as i do (mainly to put VLars on cpu - not so much need now)

Example 1

http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/workunit.php?wuid=631747158

this is a wu i moved from my cpu to gpu - credit ~108

Example 2

http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/workunit.php?wuid=633785852

this is a wu from gpu to cpu - credit ~100

Ok limited example but having checked through some of my results they are consistent with what i see - not that i would be "disappointed" by a very low result and i do have a few in the 20's but usually gru to gru and mine is the slowest

i think there are a lot of other factors at play here - for example - when the wu is sent out across client types (not sure it does it always) but from my limited observation it sends it to a cpu and a gpu - quite often - then you have how quick each client actually does the work - then the thing i do not understand is how it makes the calculation of what the combined credit is - does not look consistent to me - yes i know its some sort of average but its how we get the score to average that i am missing
Tim

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Message 1021201 - Posted: 31 Jul 2010, 13:14:55 UTC - in response to Message 1021195.  


no need for SSE3, and it should run O.K on your agp card,
I've run it on my XP3200 with it's AGP HD4650 no probs, but i'd run the r409 CPU app first to get a reference time,

Claggy


Interesting as the Lunatic site states quite clearly its for

HYBRID ATI/CPU AstroPulse_v505 5.05 for Windows r280 Compatible Science App:
Intended for Intel & AMD CPUs with SSE3 capability & ATI Graphics Card, running Windows OS.


if it works on lesser cpu (as load i guess is small) then great i will have to give it a try
Tim

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Message 1021214 - Posted: 31 Jul 2010, 13:37:55 UTC - in response to Message 1021188.  

Iona

there is a lunatics opp app now for astroP which is for ATI cards - not full seti but a start

have not tried it my self as my ATI card is agp and the cpu is old and does not support sse3 or i would give it a try

http://lunatics.kwsn.net/index.php?module=Downloads;catd=40

or a bit more info

http://lunatics.kwsn.net/index.php - need to scroll down a bit



I'm already running the Optimised App from Lunatics for CPU work and have the 505 App for Astro.... unfortunately, AP WUs are a bit thin on the ground - it would be nice to see what the GPU could churn out though. The last time I saw one, was back when I was running a 3.2GHz P4; needless to say, I aborted that one, as I'd calculated that I'd never finish it before the deadline.



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Message 1021216 - Posted: 31 Jul 2010, 13:40:54 UTC - in response to Message 1021201.  
Last modified: 31 Jul 2010, 13:45:00 UTC


no need for SSE3, and it should run O.K on your agp card,
I've run it on my XP3200 with it's AGP HD4650 no probs, but i'd run the r409 CPU app first to get a reference time,

Claggy


Interesting as the Lunatic site states quite clearly its for

HYBRID ATI/CPU AstroPulse_v505 5.05 for Windows r280 Compatible Science App:
Intended for Intel & AMD CPUs with SSE3 capability & ATI Graphics Card, running Windows OS.


if it works on lesser cpu (as load i guess is small) then great i will have to give it a try

that was r280, which was a SSE3 only app initially, released last November, later there was a SSE r280 app (January/February),
but it wasn't quite SSE only, there were a few different test builds to get the SSE app working correctly on SSE hosts,
now up to the r393 SSE app, no SSE3 version as it wasn't any faster,
while i'm running a slightly later alpha version on my E8500/9800GTX+/HD5700,

Claggy
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Message 1021218 - Posted: 31 Jul 2010, 13:43:52 UTC

ok cool

and where would i get this r393 from?
Tim

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Message 1021219 - Posted: 31 Jul 2010, 13:46:24 UTC - in response to Message 1021218.  

ok cool

and where would i get this r393 from?


In the download link you posted!! ;-)

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Message 1021221 - Posted: 31 Jul 2010, 13:49:21 UTC - in response to Message 1021219.  

lol - fare cop i'm a muppet

should actually read what i am looking at

:)
Tim

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Message 1021346 - Posted: 31 Jul 2010, 18:50:26 UTC - in response to Message 1021214.  

... unfortunately, AP WUs are a bit thin on the ground... The last time I saw one, was back when I was running a 3.2GHz P4; needless to say, I aborted that one, as I'd calculated that I'd never finish it before the deadline.

The initial estimate for AP work can be quite high, but with the Lunatics r409 app my 1.6GHz P4 does them in under 4 days, my 1.4GHz Pentium-M in under 2 days. Just noting that to avoid discouraging those with modest systems.
                                                                  Joe
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Message 1021601 - Posted: 1 Aug 2010, 11:13:11 UTC - in response to Message 1021346.  

... unfortunately, AP WUs are a bit thin on the ground... The last time I saw one, was back when I was running a 3.2GHz P4; needless to say, I aborted that one, as I'd calculated that I'd never finish it before the deadline.

The initial estimate for AP work can be quite high, but with the Lunatics r409 app my 1.6GHz P4 does them in under 4 days, my 1.4GHz Pentium-M in under 2 days. Just noting that to avoid discouraging those with modest systems.
                                                                  Joe



Sort of on topic. Interesting. I'm sure the completion time I saw was about 120 hrs and I was only running that 3.2GHz P4 for about 10% - 15% of the time and the other identical PC, less than that - maybe 5%. There lay the problem....the AP was sent to the PC that was running less often (it did not have the benefit of a Scythe HSF, and heat was quite a problem!). If I could've set the Computing Preferences differently in BOINC, for each PC (aside from creating another account) the 'main' PC would've run AP work. Obviously, with the newer PCs, things are rather different, hence they both have the 505 App on them.

On topic. There are definitely some odd credit 'awards' out there and it is frustrating, when 2 hours of CPU time, results in a credit of 50 (I used to get that for two 'shorties' taking 25 mins each), but as I said earlier, sometimes it has also worked hugely in my favour. I suppose like many things in Life, the real trick is keeping everyone happy.



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Message 1021607 - Posted: 1 Aug 2010, 11:37:25 UTC - in response to Message 1021601.  

... unfortunately, AP WUs are a bit thin on the ground... The last time I saw one, was back when I was running a 3.2GHz P4; needless to say, I aborted that one, as I'd calculated that I'd never finish it before the deadline.

The initial estimate for AP work can be quite high, but with the Lunatics r409 app my 1.6GHz P4 does them in under 4 days, my 1.4GHz Pentium-M in under 2 days. Just noting that to avoid discouraging those with modest systems.
                                                                  Joe



Sort of on topic. Interesting. I'm sure the completion time I saw was about 120 hrs and I was only running that 3.2GHz P4 for about 10% - 15% of the time and the other identical PC, less than that - maybe 5%. There lay the problem....the AP was sent to the PC that was running less often (it did not have the benefit of a Scythe HSF, and heat was quite a problem!). If I could've set the Computing Preferences differently in BOINC, for each PC (aside from creating another account) the 'main' PC would've run AP work. Obviously, with the newer PCs, things are rather different, hence they both have the 505 App on them.


You have 4 different venues available, (ie Default, Home, School and Work) so you can set each PC to a different venue, and just make Computing Preferences or Setiathome preferences to suit each PC at each venue,

Claggy

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Message 1021644 - Posted: 1 Aug 2010, 14:25:39 UTC - in response to Message 1021607.  
Last modified: 1 Aug 2010, 15:16:18 UTC

Haven't seen any AP tasks, lately, a pitty since they run nice with LUNATIC's app. rev.434 (with SDK 2.1 installed).
But they all start with 122 hours on my Q6600 with 5770 & 4850 (ATI) and depending on Radar-Blanking %, they are finished in 2 -3 hours (no Blanking) till 6 hours (>50% blanking)on the 5770. 4850 is a bit slower.

[ADDED]
Noticed, in another thread, you have to remove 'old' AP entries in app_info.xml files, in order to get work and to get it reported!
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