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Profile MadMaC
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Message 1013902 - Posted: 9 Jul 2010, 20:21:39 UTC - in response to Message 1013892.  

Whats the story behind these limits - are they going to do away with the cache entirely?
Are these limits a test and they will go back up?
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Message 1013906 - Posted: 9 Jul 2010, 20:28:30 UTC - in response to Message 1013902.  
Last modified: 9 Jul 2010, 20:31:56 UTC

Whats the story behind these limits - are they going to do away with the cache entirely?
Are these limits a test and they will go back up?


You'll find more info on that in Jeff's thread in the NEWS threads.

*EDIT*Sorry They are in NC.*/EDIT*

I Desire Peace and Justice, Jim Scott (Mod-Ret.)
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Message 1013911 - Posted: 9 Jul 2010, 20:33:26 UTC - in response to Message 1013906.  
Last modified: 9 Jul 2010, 20:33:49 UTC

You'll find more info on that in Jeff's thread in the NEWS threads.

*EDIT*Sorry They are in NC.*/EDIT*

No, they're hidden. Perhaps that a moderator who can still read the thread can copy the info Jeff posted and put it somewhere for all to read? {hint}. :)
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Message 1013913 - Posted: 9 Jul 2010, 20:36:18 UTC - in response to Message 1013783.  
Last modified: 9 Jul 2010, 20:42:02 UTC

Any Ghost WUs shown in the task lists probably do not affect the limits. AFAICT the limit logic does not do a database query to find out how many are in progress (that would be expensive like the "resend lost work" feature). So it is based on information in the request, IOW the work the host does know about.
                                                                  Joe

If the information is taken from the request, then anyone who like experiments and knows how to edit the client_state could "move out" all (or at least most) of the VLARs and later move them back (after he got some WUs for the GPU).
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Grant (SSSF)
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Message 1013915 - Posted: 9 Jul 2010, 20:39:14 UTC - in response to Message 1013900.  
Last modified: 9 Jul 2010, 20:40:49 UTC

So, Grant, please don't belittle those of us who have taken this project to another level.

I'm not belittling anybody, just pointing out that most of the noise on these forums is neither warranted or justified.


Some like you ridicule us for doing so.

I only ridicule those that are deserving of it, and even then only repeat offenders. Those that act like adults get treated like adults.


We only complain because we want to do more, my friend.

And over the years i've found that complaining only leads to resentment & is probably the surest way of not getting what you want.
Offering valid criticism, and suggestions of how to resolve a problem (that is when there is an actual problem) are more likely to get the desired result.
And then hoefully the maturity to realise this is the real world & while all things are possible, unless there is the funding & personel not everything can be done & what you might consider to be the most pressing issue may not be so for the vast majority of people involved.
Grant
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Message 1013917 - Posted: 9 Jul 2010, 20:39:56 UTC - in response to Message 1013900.  


The price they paid was of their choosing.
If they feel that means they are owed something by the project, maybe it's time they left for a while & had a good long think about things & got just a bit of perspective.

It really is very strange for people to get upset when they decide to spend a bucket load of money on something when it was never asked of them to do so & when the possibility of there not being any further work, ever, is quite high.

Yes, Grant......
The price I paid was of my own choosing.
No......the project never asked me to do what I have done.

They never asked, or demanded, or even requested. But I thought their quest noble enough that I did what I could.

And the 'credits' that they awarded emboldened me to push forward to see what I could do. If it were not for the credits game, I, for one, would not be where I am today. Might just be a simple little screensaver running in the background on a long forgotten 233mmx.

So, Grant, please don't belittle those of us who have taken this project to another level.
We know that participation does not require it at this level.
Some like you ridicule us for doing so.
But some, like me, feel that the quest is worthy of such.

I hope that some will come to respect rather than make fun of those who have come to regard that as more than a passing fancy.

We only complain because we want to do more, my friend.

Meow meow.


Yes, you could say I want my RAC......

"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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Message 1013923 - Posted: 9 Jul 2010, 20:49:59 UTC - in response to Message 1013911.  

You'll find more info on that in Jeff's thread in the NEWS threads.

*EDIT*Sorry They are in NC.*/EDIT*

No, they're hidden. Perhaps that a moderator who can still read the thread can copy the info Jeff posted and put it somewhere for all to read? {hint}. :)

Me thinks I'll leave that call on Jeff. ;-]
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Message 1013944 - Posted: 9 Jul 2010, 21:28:47 UTC
Last modified: 9 Jul 2010, 21:29:59 UTC

Honestly, the view I have..

With the seperate limits on CPU and GPU, I see no reason the TOTAL task limit needs maintained. That was the problem with people not getting both last outage, and continues to be a problem after the latest outage.

The servers and network survived the initial onslaught. Turning the numbers up slowly as things continue to calm down... And I think we have a winner.

[edit]Oh.. and the time calculations on my CPU units are really still WAY off.[/edit]
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Message 1013948 - Posted: 9 Jul 2010, 21:41:24 UTC - in response to Message 1013944.  

Honestly, the view I have..

With the seperate limits on CPU and GPU, I see no reason the TOTAL task limit needs maintained. That was the problem with people not getting both last outage, and continues to be a problem after the latest outage.

Without a total server-side limit, chances are some computers would "suddenly" get 128 cores or something...



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Message 1013949 - Posted: 9 Jul 2010, 21:42:51 UTC - in response to Message 1013944.  

With the seperate limits on CPU and GPU, I see no reason the TOTAL task limit needs maintained.
...
Turning the numbers up slowly as things continue to calm down... And I think we have a winner.

My feelings as well.

Grant
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Message 1013955 - Posted: 9 Jul 2010, 21:49:01 UTC - in response to Message 1013948.  

Honestly, the view I have..

With the seperate limits on CPU and GPU, I see no reason the TOTAL task limit needs maintained. That was the problem with people not getting both last outage, and continues to be a problem after the latest outage.

Without a total server-side limit, chances are some computers would "suddenly" get 128 cores or something...



40 per GPU limit. That should cover it.
5 per CPU limit. That should cover it.
Janice
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Message 1013956 - Posted: 9 Jul 2010, 21:51:59 UTC - in response to Message 1013845.  



SUX. Are you listening, DA?

Don't bother-DA told me personally he doesn't pay attention to the forums.

Now, why exactly does that not surprise me?

He does, however, read boinc_alpha, and if you manage to pitch your report in words of one syllable while he's watching, you can get changes made. I managed to trigger him into changeset [trac]changeset:21877[/trac] on Tuesday night, though sod's law dictates that Rom released v6.10.58 during the half-hour between my report and David's fix. God knows when we'll get to test it.

But Miep is right to raise the question: why do they spend time tarting up the forums for 'us' to use, while 'they' commune elsewhere in some ivory tower? Aren't we all in this together?
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Message 1013964 - Posted: 9 Jul 2010, 22:09:31 UTC - in response to Message 1013956.  



SUX. Are you listening, DA?

Don't bother-DA told me personally he doesn't pay attention to the forums.

Now, why exactly does that not surprise me?

He does, however, read boinc_alpha, and if you manage to pitch your report in words of one syllable while he's watching, you can get changes made. I managed to trigger him into changeset [trac]changeset:21877[/trac] on Tuesday night, though sod's law dictates that Rom released v6.10.58 during the half-hour between my report and David's fix. God knows when we'll get to test it.

But Miep is right to raise the question: why do they spend time tarting up the forums for 'us' to use, while 'they' commune elsewhere in some ivory tower? Aren't we all in this together?

Richard, PM me if you really want some input, but mine is readily chimed upon what others post in the NC.

I am sorry that I don't wither away at my thoughts here........

There are few questions that others have raised that I have not been the first one to ask.

Sorry if I have not been more civil to you, and caused you to withhold your responses to me. You seem to take me like a jackass these days, and choose not to respond. It is not my intend, my friend.
"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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Message 1013966 - Posted: 9 Jul 2010, 22:10:50 UTC - in response to Message 1013956.  

But Miep is right to raise the question: why do they spend time tarting up the forums for 'us' to use, while 'they' commune elsewhere in some ivory tower? Aren't we all in this together?

The BOINC developers always said that the forums are for the users, not necessarily for the admins/developers. No matter what it says in the Wiki. ;-)

But in essence some of the users will always be more knowledgeable than others, or have information others lack, so they can help out, no matter how fiery the environment. The line to the developers runs through the email lists and Trac (if you have an account).
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Message 1013990 - Posted: 9 Jul 2010, 22:47:12 UTC - in response to Message 1013966.  

But Miep is right to raise the question: why do they spend time tarting up the forums for 'us' to use, while 'they' commune elsewhere in some ivory tower? Aren't we all in this together?

The BOINC developers always said that the forums are for the users, not necessarily for the admins/developers. No matter what it says in the Wiki. ;-)

But in essence some of the users will always be more knowledgeable than others, or have information others lack, so they can help out, no matter how fiery the environment. The line to the developers runs through the email lists and Trac (if you have an account).

I know, that's the official line. But I honestly believe that the developers are being stupid by adopting that approach: they are wasting a valuable and under-used resource, namely volunteers' brain-cycles.

You know that I use the mailing lists (on suffrance) as the only effective tool: I have a trac account (mainly only useful as a permanent record of how long ago I first reported an unfixed bug - I recently found myself reviewing [trac]#525[/trac]): and you know that I posted a long ramble on the subject of teamwork at the weekend - you sent me a PM about it, because you weren't posting on the boards at the time. And that PM was the *only* response I've received.

It's a vicious spiral. The disdainful, patronising attitude shown by the developers and administrators to these boards discourages positive, engaged posters from trying to help: the negative emotions gain sway: everybody's preconceptions get reinforced: and we throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Compare with the attitude shown by the devs and admins at AQUA. There the feedback is positive: crunchers' requests and reports are acknowledged and taken seriously. When things go wrong, as they did on Tuesday, the speed and openness of response turneth away all wrath.

@ Mark,

No, I won't say this in a PM - I'll say it out in the open here. I've not been choosing to ignore you: I've actually been ignoring everyone. A combination of burnout - I wrote something like 200 technical posts in the first two weeks after the Fermi app and 'new credit code' were loaded, with no feedback at all from the powers-that-be (see above): an exhausting pig of a work contract; and some personal matters to work through. Judging by the way this post is rattling out, there may be some light at the end of the tunnel - but it's still not certain it isn't an oncoming train. You have your own demons to face, my friend, and I hope we see you back when they've gone.
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Message 1013995 - Posted: 9 Jul 2010, 22:58:54 UTC

The biggest problem I see and why I can understand why the Powers That Be don't read these forums is how fast a truly helpful suggestion gets buried by a storm of negative posts, mostly having nothing to do with the original post. They may start out trying to add their support to the OP but very quickly deteriorates to arguments and total BS. Even I, as just an interested volunteer get sick of reading them sometimes.


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Message 1014009 - Posted: 9 Jul 2010, 23:34:20 UTC - in response to Message 1013995.  


Sorting the Wheat from the Chaff has always been a difficult & laborious process.
Grant
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Message 1014014 - Posted: 9 Jul 2010, 23:40:17 UTC - in response to Message 1014009.  

Sorting the Wheat from the Chaff has always been a difficult & laborious process.

So? What's the best response to that (very real) problem?

Recruit some knowledgeable volunteer Wheat/Chaff sorters, and give them the tools to undertake the task?

Or throw everything - Wheat and Chaff alike - onto the rubbish tip?
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Message 1014015 - Posted: 9 Jul 2010, 23:43:03 UTC - in response to Message 1013944.  

...
[edit]Oh.. and the time calculations on my CPU units are really still WAY off.[/edit]

As your hosts are running stock applications, they're very interesting as examples of the kind of estimate adjustments the servers make. Most active forum members here are running anonymous platform, for which that feature is disabled for now.

The "Number of tasks completed" needs to be at least 10 before BOINC will try to adjust estimates, and for a CPU getting to that point will clearly take longer than most GPUs. That period at the beginning for each host when CPU estimates are unadjusted while GPU tasks have the adjustment is certain to be awkward. If the estimates for your AMD CPU tasks with 7 completed are even worse than those for the Intel CPU tasks with 27 completed, perhaps that's a positive sign. OTOH, the servers are maintaining an overall host average as well as the app version averages, the relative speed of CPU versus GPU tasks on a host may also affect how long it takes for estimates to stabilize as much as they can.

Please keep us posted on future developments, BOINC is trying for a 'one size fits all' method. That usually really means the fit is poor but maybe adequate for all.
                                                               Joe
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Message 1014019 - Posted: 9 Jul 2010, 23:58:21 UTC
Last modified: 9 Jul 2010, 23:59:32 UTC

Okay. I don't lurk here that often so I may have missed the scuttlebutt about this but what's going on here?

7/9/2010 7:42:17 PM SETI@home Sending scheduler request: To fetch work.
7/9/2010 7:42:17 PM SETI@home Requesting new tasks
7/9/2010 7:42:20 PM SETI@home Scheduler request completed: got 0 new tasks
7/9/2010 7:42:20 PM SETI@home Message from server: No work sent
7/9/2010 7:42:20 PM SETI@home Message from server: This computer has reached a limit on tasks in progress

I uploaded 6 work units but I'm only allowed to download two then I'm blocked? I see people mentioning a 5 work unit per CPU limit but isn't that going to starve the mega crunchers? Right now I have about three days worth of work queued when my preferences are asking for a week's worth.

Is this new per CPU quota get kicked up as we get closer to the outage? Is this some measure to prevent orphan work units from systems that fetch 20 days worth then are never seen again or have some catastrophic hardware problem? Is this their way to keep the number of work units in progress under control?

Not complaining about the concept, more of a mixture of curiosity and seeking a better understanding how things work now.
"Life is just nature's way of keeping meat fresh." - The Doctor
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