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Robert Ribbeck
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Message 1012315 - Posted: 5 Jul 2010, 18:53:54 UTC - in response to Message 1012301.  

Am I missing a more recent chart? From http://bluenorthernsoftware.com/scarecrow/sahstats/rac/ I get 2.58% of users with greater RAC than 3,000, but the RAC this group contributes only 27.6% of the total (5.75+6.18+7.71+2.37+2.76+1.8+0.11).


Scarecrows % totals of all the credits ever to seti@home

my numbers are based on the users per group and the range of the group calculated on a given day

I threw out those with a rac less than 1 (my thinking those are more delinquent accounts than actullly contributed units) I calculated a total credits using the max (29) for column 1 X the # of users and the min rac per column x the numbers users for all the other columns


And I'm still not clear why this group should be more pissed off then the rest of us that are have trouble getting enough work to get through the outage. And since the purpose of the extended outage is to do more of the actual science (as opposed to helping us crunch for meaningless credit) why is anybody pissed off?


To rephrase what you said
you can't understand why the 4475 users contributing more than half of the results turned in daily should be upset

Am I gettting that right
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Message 1012316 - Posted: 5 Jul 2010, 18:58:07 UTC - in response to Message 1012301.  

just using the minimum rac of each column

you get 2.58% of all users (those above 3,000)
who add a minimum of over half of the wu being done daily

I'd say you really don't want to piss off that 2.58%


Am I missing a more recent chart? From http://bluenorthernsoftware.com/scarecrow/sahstats/rac/ I get 2.58% of users with greater RAC than 3,000, but the RAC this group contributes only 27.6% of the total (5.75+6.18+7.71+2.37+2.76+1.8+0.11).

And I'm still not clear why this group should be more pissed off then the rest of us that are have trouble getting enough work to get through the outage. And since the purpose of the extended outage is to do more of the actual science (as opposed to helping us crunch for meaningless credit) why is anybody pissed off?


Bill, a machine that runs 200-400 RAC probably goes through 2-4 work units per day, all on the CPU. You get 20 work units all weekend, and see no problem.
You have several days work sitting ready to go. The crunching is part of the science, and according to the SETI staff still very much needed. If this stops being the case, we can all pack up and go home.

The PROBLEM comes when that same machine adds a moderate GPU, which contributes another .. lets say 1600 RAC. This machine also has been sitting with 20 units,
EITHER CPU *OR* GPU. Not both. The GPU will have all of the units done in less than a day, or be bone dry because the machine already has 20 CPU. This compounded on top of the previous problem in match where the dowload limits were already following this logic.

To the Mega-crunchers.. They will blow through 20 units in very fast time, Even though they are likely only using one portion of the computer.. They are being handicapped to start, and on top of extended outages being left completely dry.
Even with the servers up they may have to manually update to get more units since the auto-update feature is infrequent. Again, not a big issue to someone doing a few units per day. Miserable if you do a bunch of units per hour.

This is.. in a nut shell why larger crunchers are more unhappy. They are told they are needed, but treated like dirt if they say things are wrong. They have gone to great lengths to get programs to try and work around road blocks, some of which have caused other problems.. some of which they feel they need to try and survive. So they have put more time as well as hardware expense and power use into the project.. to help find ET.

Can you at least try to understand why they are a bit irritable when the latest
unthought through, untested software is thrown in, even though your CPU has enough to do?
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Robert Ribbeck
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Message 1012323 - Posted: 5 Jul 2010, 19:05:25 UTC - in response to Message 1012309.  

Hay scarecrow

I thought it was fine before with your doing totals of yesterdays received credits
subtracting todays totals

Any way it does really show how much of the daily crunching only the top few do

Which was my purpose suggesting this in the first place

I for one salute you for what you are providing
Hail to the chief!! you da man


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Profile Bill Walker
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Message 1012327 - Posted: 5 Jul 2010, 19:14:25 UTC - in response to Message 1012315.  

I threw out those with a rac less than 1 (my thinking those are more delinquent accounts than actullly contributed units)


agreed

I calculated a total credits using the max (29) for column 1 X the # of users and the min rac per column x the numbers users for all the other columns


I used the actual credits per group from Scarecrow's data. The difference between your number and my number possibly means the higher RAC groups are fairly recent to the game. The lower RAC groups includes a lot of people here since 1999, hence a larger total credit even if current RAC is low compared to the super crunchers. I wonder how much this was skewed when NEZ left? Mega-credits left behind when he went, but zero RAC from him for some time now.


To rephrase what you said
you can't understand why the 4475 users contributing more than half of the results turned in daily should be upset

Am I gettting that right


Absolutely. Why does being able to buy a bigger computer make you more upset than the rest of us? We are here to help with the science, when our help is needed. Why would anybody be upset if the science needs to catch up to the crunching? S@H has clearly been running right on the ragged edge of their resources (money, hardware, and human) lately. If the resources remain fixed, they will have to adjust to reflect that reality.

I, for one, would be very upset to find out the crunching was not for a scientific purpose, or even if the science suffered just to keep WUs flowing. If S@H says "sorry kids, no WUs for a few years till we sort out the science side" I would congratulate them on the decision. And then watch my RAC climb on other projects.

S@H owes me nothing. I don't think they owe any volunteer cruncher anything. I hope they find ET (or prove there is no ET), and I'll help how I can when I can.

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Message 1012329 - Posted: 5 Jul 2010, 19:17:43 UTC - in response to Message 1012323.  

Hay scarecrow

I thought it was fine before with your doing totals of yesterdays received credits
subtracting todays totals

Any way it does really show how much of the daily crunching only the top few do

Which was my purpose suggesting this in the first place

I for one salute you for what you are providing
Hail to the chief!! you da man


Thanks, Robert! That's why I get the BIG bucks! ;)
<-big buck
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Message 1012334 - Posted: 5 Jul 2010, 19:30:05 UTC

Perfection!

Thanks Scarecrow
Boinc....Boinc....Boinc....Boinc....
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Message 1012339 - Posted: 5 Jul 2010, 19:34:14 UTC

Velly nice indeed, Mr. Scarecrow!

Here is a fresh link to the graph just to keep folks from having to scroll down.
"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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Robert Ribbeck
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Message 1012346 - Posted: 5 Jul 2010, 19:40:36 UTC - in response to Message 1012327.  
Last modified: 5 Jul 2010, 19:51:02 UTC


To rephrase what you said
you can't understand why the 4475 users contributing more than half of the results turned in daily should be upset

Am I gettting that right


Absolutely. Why does being able to buy a bigger computer make you more upset than the rest of us? We are here to help with the science, when our help is needed. Why would anybody be upset if the science needs to catch up to the crunching? S@H has clearly been running right on the ragged edge of their resources (money, hardware, and human) lately. If the resources remain fixed, they will have to adjust to reflect that reality.


thats the whole point to this thread and all the effort

It's not Fair
20 units for most is enough for days but NOT those doing all the majority of the work

I am part of the few
I do it on 20+ machines
I've got plenty of wu to last thru these outages

BUT giving more work units to those that won't use them vs starving those who can use them is another GIANT "management" foobar
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Message 1012362 - Posted: 5 Jul 2010, 20:01:42 UTC - in response to Message 1012346.  


thats the whole point to this thread and all the effort

It's not Fair


Who said it would be fair? I volunteer what I have, you volunteer what you have. Good for us. If they need us - great. If they don't, how is that not fair? How much work were you promised when you signed up?


BUT giving more work units to those that won't use them vs starving those who can use them is another GIANT "management" foobar


Who is getting units and not using them? I see everybody (big cruncher and small cruncher) asking for more work. That tells me there are more volunteers than work right now. Time for us volunteers to find some other heat generator / time waster. Let BOINC keep asking for work, and if more turns up (or crunchers quit) you will get it.

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Message 1014770 - Posted: 11 Jul 2010, 20:19:21 UTC

The graph is a good tool..
I have been grabbing a few screen shots. From 7/6 we had 19 people at 100-299K..
on 7/10 we had 11. Each band declined, except for 1-29.

Basic Seti graph

Shows we are now down to about 168K active users. New users per day continuing its decline.

For what it is worth.
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Robert Ribbeck
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Message 1015051 - Posted: 12 Jul 2010, 17:47:59 UTC - in response to Message 1014770.  

The graph is a good tool..
I have been grabbing a few screen shots. From 7/6 we had 19 people at 100-299K..
on 7/10 we had 11. Each band declined, except for 1-29.

Basic Seti graph

Shows we are now down to about 168K active users. New users per day continuing its decline.

For what it is worth.


With outages and all I'm not sure I trust the data at Seti@home
It's like watching a yo yo

Scarecrow had one day with NO change
I can't believe that

Too bad you can't see/use my spread sheet
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Message 1015066 - Posted: 12 Jul 2010, 18:42:36 UTC - in response to Message 1015051.  


Scarecrow had one day with NO change
I can't believe that

There was a day when the SETI didn't do a daily stats export. That makes for a day with no activity and the next day with double the normal activity. It's even more apparent on a stats site like BoincStats where all users show a daily credit of zero and no change in ranking. It all boils down to GIGO... if there's no GI then there's no GO. :)
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Robert Ribbeck
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Message 1015071 - Posted: 12 Jul 2010, 18:45:47 UTC - in response to Message 1015066.  


Scarecrow had one day with NO change
I can't believe that

There was a day when the SETI didn't do a daily stats export. That makes for a day with no activity and the next day with double the normal activity. It's even more apparent on a stats site like BoincStats where all users show a daily credit of zero and no change in ranking. It all boils down to GIGO... if there's no GI then there's no GO. :)


Like I said you really can't even trust what seti@home does as gospel
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Message 1015210 - Posted: 13 Jul 2010, 1:13:47 UTC - in response to Message 1012346.  


To rephrase what you said
you can't understand why the 4475 users contributing more than half of the results turned in daily should be upset

Am I gettting that right


Absolutely. Why does being able to buy a bigger computer make you more upset than the rest of us? We are here to help with the science, when our help is needed. Why would anybody be upset if the science needs to catch up to the crunching? S@H has clearly been running right on the ragged edge of their resources (money, hardware, and human) lately. If the resources remain fixed, they will have to adjust to reflect that reality.


thats the whole point to this thread and all the effort

It's not Fair
20 units for most is enough for days but NOT those doing all the majority of the work

I am part of the few
I do it on 20+ machines
I've got plenty of wu to last thru these outages

BUT giving more work units to those that won't use them vs starving those who can use them is another GIANT "management" foobar



If you're using 20+ machines, for that RAC, maybe you should consider getting more up-to-date stuff, thats also cheaper to run. Merely an observation. But then, I'm not running the two PCs that I'm using, 24/7 or, whining.

Don't take life too seriously, as you'll never come out of it alive!
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Message 1015218 - Posted: 13 Jul 2010, 1:35:01 UTC - in response to Message 1014770.  

The graph is a good tool..
I have been grabbing a few screen shots. From 7/6 we had 19 people at 100-299K..
on 7/10 we had 11. Each band declined, except for 1-29.

Basic Seti graph

Shows we are now down to about 168K active users. New users per day continuing its decline.

For what it is worth.


We should take into account the extreme heat some parts of the country are experiencing. People could also be shutting down due to that.


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Message 1015221 - Posted: 13 Jul 2010, 1:42:36 UTC - in response to Message 1015210.  

If you're using 20+ machines, for that RAC, maybe you should consider getting more up-to-date stuff, thats also cheaper to run. Merely an observation. But then, I'm not running the two PCs that I'm using, 24/7 or, whining.



Careful Iona. He's very touchy.

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Message 1015229 - Posted: 13 Jul 2010, 2:20:46 UTC - in response to Message 1015218.  


We should take into account the extreme heat some parts of the country are experiencing. People could also be shutting down due to that.


If there is an upturn to trends.... that could be a factor. I suspect the trends will continue. Time will tell. But if it was a stock chart... SELL.
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Message 1015247 - Posted: 13 Jul 2010, 3:23:04 UTC

The "Useless Information Department" has another pretty chart.....
Pie Chart - Daily Credit by "RAC Group"
Per usual, the chart is more fun if viewed after drinking 3 beers through a straw, and spinning around five times in your chair.
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Message 1015257 - Posted: 13 Jul 2010, 3:38:54 UTC

Thanks Scarecrow, nice addition.
Pluto will always be a planet to me.

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Message 1015275 - Posted: 13 Jul 2010, 4:29:07 UTC

Proper page link: Daily Credit / RAC Group
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