On another note something I've thought about for a while
This is all about distributed computing

Could not something be done to distribute the load of handling the "seti@home"
project via distribution instead of all being done in a server room at berkley
splitting verifications & creating the master data base over several volunteers computers on the internet

It seems to me that this has been proposed before, but it was determined at the time that any benefit in doing so would be lost in the complexities of transferring data back and forth between a master database and external hosts, verifying integrity of data, maintaining scientific integrity of same, etc., etc., etc..

This problem of distributed validation is being researched generally by a few universities... but to my knowledge (as of late last year when I was in research), there is no solution that works at the scale of SETI@Home. IOW, no solution any time soon.

It seems to me that this has been proposed before, but it was determined at the time that any benefit in doing so would be lost in the complexities of transferring data back and forth between a master database and external hosts, verifying integrity of data, maintaining scientific integrity of same, etc., etc., etc..

This. Given that the source data is in 50GB 'blobs', the internet isn't up to distributing them. Peer-to-peer distribution of workunits might help with download bandwidth, but also opens up a whole can of network issue worms - not to mention security concerns.

Besides, all the results have to get back to Berkeley somehow eventually to be validated, assimilated, and NTPCkr'd over (assuming that gets to operational status in due course). So the databases at least end up just as big as they are now.

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Stats site - http://www.teamocuk.co.uk - still alive and (just about) kicking.

On another note something I've thought about for a while
This is all about distributed computing

Could not something be done to distribute the load of handling the "seti@home"
project via distribution instead of all being done in a server room at berkley
splitting verifications & creating the master data base over several volunteers computers on the internet

It seems to me that this has been proposed before, but it was determined at the time that any benefit in doing so would be lost in the complexities of transferring data back and forth between a master database and external hosts, verifying integrity of data, maintaining scientific integrity of same, etc., etc., etc..

This problem of distributed validation is being researched generally by a few universities... but to my knowledge (as of late last year when I was in research), there is no solution that works at the scale of SETI@Home. IOW, no solution any time soon.

Well it wasn't really that long ago that boinc wasn't possible either
as home computers get better & better thing theat wern't possible now are

Maybe getting the message boards off local servers ?
or just a raid array of disk space accross the internet
Now there's something

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Update: Our upload server disk array crashed last night, but has been recovered. However, the project will remain down until we process a large backlog of results.

Looks like a resync did the trick. Clearing the pipes before opening up for more punishment seems like a sound idea.

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Stats site - http://www.teamocuk.co.uk - still alive and (just about) kicking.

On another note something I've thought about for a while
This is all about distributed computing

Could not something be done to distribute the load of handling the "seti@home"
project via distribution instead of all being done in a server room at berkley
splitting verifications & creating the master data base over several volunteers computers on the internet

It seems to me that this has been proposed before, but it was determined at the time that any benefit in doing so would be lost in the complexities of transferring data back and forth between a master database and external hosts, verifying integrity of data, maintaining scientific integrity of same, etc., etc., etc..

This problem of distributed validation is being researched generally by a few universities... but to my knowledge (as of late last year when I was in research), there is no solution that works at the scale of SETI@Home. IOW, no solution any time soon.

Well it wasn't really that long ago that boinc wasn't possible either
as home computers get better & better thing theat wern't possible now are

Maybe getting the message boards off local servers ?
or just a raid array of disk space accross the internet
Now there's something

It's a problem that has been discussed many times, probably too many. In the end all the data has to though one fairly small connection and that makes it virtually impossible. Even if the rest of the resources were provided gratis.

It's a problem that has been discussed many times, probably too many. In the end all the data has to though one fairly small connection and that makes it virtually impossible. Even if the rest of the resources were provided gratis.

Ok as per usual the nay sayers have the majority

It's always easier to say WHY NOT than to come up with the solutions

I'm too old to fight any more
Just remember yesterdays dreams are todays reality

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It's a problem that has been discussed many times, probably too many. In the end all the data has to though one fairly small connection and that makes it virtually impossible. Even if the rest of the resources were provided gratis.

The next step is to make the quorum and validation distributed. Then, the SETI@Home servers can simply poll for the result via DHT mechanism. The only disadvantage that is certain is the increased latency between work distribution and storing the canonical result. However, no intermediate storage is needed server-side (no upload server).

I expect we'll see this architecture available as soon as 3-5 years from now, or longer if no one pursues any applications. It's a waste to discuss changing the SETI@Home architecture until technology and/or resources are greatly improved.

But if anyone really wants to beat the dead horse some more, I suggest starting a new thread instead of filling this one up.

It's a problem that has been discussed many times, probably too many. In the end all the data has to though one fairly small connection and that makes it virtually impossible. Even if the rest of the resources were provided gratis.

Ok as per usual the nay sayers have the majority

It's always easier to say WHY NOT than to come up with the solutions

I'm too old to fight any more
Just remember yesterdays dreams are todays reality

As I said it has been discussed many times and there has been a even greater number of suggestions, all of which have been rejected, mainly by people who have a lot more knowledge that I on the subject.

Some of the knowledgeable were Ned and Ozzfan, who have retired. On of the reasons being because they got tired of repeating explanations to people who wouldn't look to see if there were any previous posts on the subject.

It's a problem that has been discussed many times, probably too many. In the end all the data has to though one fairly small connection and that makes it virtually impossible. Even if the rest of the resources were provided gratis.

Ok as per usual the nay sayers have the majority

It's always easier to say WHY NOT than to come up with the solutions

I'm too old to fight any more
Just remember yesterdays dreams are todays reality

As I said it has been discussed many times and there has been a even greater number of suggestions, all of which have been rejected, mainly by people who have a lot more knowledge that I on the subject.

Some of the knowledgeable were Ned and Ozzfan, who have retired. On of the reasons being because they got tired of repeating explanations to people who wouldn't look to see if there were any previous posts on the subject.

thank YOU O WIZARD FOR YOUR WORDS OF WISDOM
I'm out of here
If i wanted trolls & bs I'd turn my time machine back to the 60's
These forum threads are not invitations to flame other posters or post
what you think you know
It's apparent nothing useful can be accomplished
BYE

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It's a problem that has been discussed many times, probably too many. In the end all the data has to though one fairly small connection and that makes it virtually impossible. Even if the rest of the resources were provided gratis.

Ok as per usual the nay sayers have the majority

It's always easier to say WHY NOT than to come up with the solutions

I'm too old to fight any more
Just remember yesterdays dreams are todays reality

As I said it has been discussed many times and there has been a even greater number of suggestions, all of which have been rejected, mainly by people who have a lot more knowledge that I on the subject.

Some of the knowledgeable were Ned and Ozzfan, who have retired. On of the reasons being because they got tired of repeating explanations to people who wouldn't look to see if there were any previous posts on the subject.

thank YOU O WIZARD FOR YOUR WORDS OF WISDOM
I'm out of here
If i wanted trolls & bs I'd turn my time machine back to the 60's
These forum threads are not invitations to flame other posters or post
what you think you know
It's apparent nothing useful can be accomplished
BYE

I really don't see how WinterKnight was being a troll, and throwing BS around. He simply stated a fact, and why those who have a great knowledge of things going on around here have left. Nothing of that was being a troll, or feeding BS. And maybe heeding to your own words, these forums aren't an invitation to flame other posters, just as you said yourself. Good day sir.

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thank YOU O WIZARD FOR YOUR WORDS OF WISDOM
I'm out of here
If i wanted trolls & bs I'd turn my time machine back to the 60's
These forum threads are not invitations to flame other posters or post
what you think you know
It's apparent nothing useful can be accomplished
BYE

Everyone here have dreams of what could be.
We all must live under the constraints of limited time, limited personel, limited funds for Boinc and Seti. It is what it is.

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Boinc....Boinc....Boinc....Boinc....

How's about everyone just takes a calming step back from the brink, shall we?

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Pure mathematics is, in its way, the poetry of logical ideas.

Albert Einstein

setizens.
lets keep this a positive place.
we are all concerned about the current problems,
getting angry with one another solves absolutely nothing.

if your frustration level is at a high point,
consider cutting your computers off for awhile.
at least until the mess is demessified.
you'll save money on your next power bill also.

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setizens.
lets keep this a positive place.
we are all concerned about the current problems,
getting angry with one another solves absolutely nothing.

if your frustration level is at a high point,
consider cutting your computers off for awhile.
at least until the mess is demessified.
you'll save money on your next power bill also.

Well, I usually find the 'off' switch to be a pretty good solution, when things can't upload and downloads are not happening. I also acknowledge that it is unreasonable to expect a project as large as this one, with resources limited in the way they are, to be 100% functional 24/7 all year. Is that called, being realistic (no connection to Tandy....lol)?

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Don't take life too seriously, as you'll never come out of it alive!

Current problems? What current problems? I bet that most people here still have jobs running from their caches. The download and upload doesn't work, but that isn't any problems until the computers doesn't have any jobs at all to crunch.

Edit, added: Take as an example someone who have his computers set to connect to SETI every 5 days. That person wouldn't have noticed any problems at all. So, there is no problems yet, is there?

So I'd say that so far we do NOT have any problems whatsoever. That is apart from some people without any patience.

LOL I'm right there with ya, although I crunch for more than 1 project. My computers stay toasty warm regardless of what happens on any of the projects. My laptop I'm attached to 17, 3 of which rarely have work, LHC, Pirates, and Orbit@home. My desktop is connected to pretty much everything in my sig. So 1 goes down, start another. :-) No problems EVER here. LOL

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For those complaining about no news see Matt's post in Tech News.

Sten....These things have off buttons???

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PROUD MEMBER OF Team Starfire World BOINC

But maybe computers sold in other countries aren't equipped with such luxuary item as an off button.

There's always the breaker. Or the plug. If all else fails, there's usually a window (works best if you're not on the ground floor).

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Stats site - http://www.teamocuk.co.uk - still alive and (just about) kicking.

Well, I'm a SETI only person, and despite that I never run out of jobs. Keeping a reasonably high cache gets me through even outages that would last for a week or so (which never happens).

There's no reason whatsoever to get upset if I don't down or upload for a week.

And finally, should I run out of jobs totally, I know where my off buttons are located :-)

I was a SETI only person for quite a while, till I got interested in other projects that kept popping up. Your exactly right, a higher cache does weather through most, if not all, outages, unless SETI goes down for an extended period of time, like it has in the past.

And I totally agree with your last sentence, if nothing is flowing, shut it off. It will come back eventually. :-) I see no reason to be upset either my friend. :-) Happy crunching!

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i agree with you 100% it does no good to get upset when things don't go right,i've been with SETI since 07 i leave my computer running 24/7 with SETI running in the backround and go about other things checking in to see how things are going or not going once or twice a day.

I know the upload server is down, but shouldn't Boinc be able to connect to the project?

24/06/2010 12:58:17 Project communication failed: attempting access to reference site
24/06/2010 12:58:17 SETI@home Scheduler request failed: Couldn't connect to server
24/06/2010 12:58:18 Internet access OK - project servers may be temporarily down.