The Massacre of the Gaza Aid Flotilla

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Matt Giwer
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Message 1000553 - Posted: 4 Jun 2010, 6:19:09 UTC

As I noted in my first post the propaganda, aka Hasbara, team of Izziehuggers would be out in force. I was also given a hit over Izziehuggers.

An Izziehugger is one who defends Israel as a kneejerk reaction without knowing the facts or by spreading propaganda contrary to the facts or by mindlessly repeating Israeli propaganda without skeptical evaluation.

These have all be demonstrated in the pro-Israel posts.

Clearly there have been regular assertions that ONLY <em>illegal</em> weapons are prohibited. Even a cursory knowledge of the embargo makes that an obviously false statement. It goes far beyond just <em>illegal</em> weapons but does in fact extend not only to the types of foods and spices but to the quantity of them. It also applies to crayons, clothing, shoes and a host of other items.

There was a mindless usage of the Israeli description <em>illegal</em> without the least examination of what law makes them illegal. Any examination of the facts indicates there is no such law and therefore they are not illegal by any lawful standard.

We have read the apologists say that the cargo was "only to be inspected in Israel and then it could be delivered." Again a totally false statement. The cargo was to be offloaded in Ashod and then shipped at flotilla expense to Gaza but then only only items not prohibited such as the spice coriander.

We have seen a deliberate misrepresentation of the condition of military occupation. We have seen a deliberate misrepresentation of the state of war. And if we have not seen those deliberately then we have seen the mindless, uncritical repetition of Israeli propaganda. No matter which it is we have seen Izziehuggers in action.

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Message 1000559 - Posted: 4 Jun 2010, 6:59:05 UTC - in response to Message 1000503.  

But before you contunue to put shame at IDF's head, i ask you to think about one thing. Israel not only "zionist goverment that rules the planet" but also a buffer (barrier) country. If Israel dissapear (i'm almost sure that this will happen in nearest decade), our Checnya will be a heaven compare to _what_ will start in all the world around.


If Israel were to disappear, the middle east would be at peace. Yes, they'd have had the odd skirmish. But we'd have no Iraq war, No Afghanistan, No posturing against Iran. There'd be no need for terrorist organizations who despise Israel and the US, would there? Interfering in mid east affairs is what started it all.

The Palestinians have a right to defend themselves, THEIR land, THEIR houses, THEIR children. Not have it/them seized, bulldozed, shot. Illegaly.

Israel disappear in the next 10 years? One could only hope!! The US would be unburdened, and the mid east could get back to being the mid east.


I did a modest summary of the Zionist history of planning and executing the expulsion and murder of the Palestinians. It is also worthwhile to look at Britain's actions in this. You will note Israel has a right to exist because Britain promised it and Britain is to be damned because it tried to prevent it. Britain is obviously involved in this mess.

We can start with WWI where the Central Powers included the Ottoman Empire which ruled much of the middle east at that time. (Google a map in that time frame.) Britain and France had fought for dominance of the region in the 19th c., Britain won out, and then in the first few years of the 20th c. Britain and France made peace for the purpose of dominance of the world in general and Europe in particular.

So the war starts and Britain is the major player in the region and it is looking for allies. The Zionists swear their financial support of Britain in exchange for a homeland NOT AN AUTONOMOUS STATE in Palestine. In the mean time the Brits are promising independence to the peoples under Ottoman rule for their support of the British war effort. Rent Lawrence of Arabia for the most famous emissary of self rule and note the Palestinians bought into this promise.

On the third claw, Britain and France were negotiating the Sykes-Picot agreement whereby they agreed how to divide up and rule the middle east after the Ottomans are reduced to what is now Turkey.

Right up front the Brits and French screwed everyone in the middle east including the Palestinians and screws the Zionists as an afterthought.

The aftermath of this is also of interest. The first Palestinians riots against the Brits for their independence were in the 1920s. The Palestinians are first mentioned by Herodotus in the mid 5th c. BC so they have been around by name for a very long time. Playing games that they had no modern state is deliberate lying.

The French got Syria. Going back to Herodotus he refers to the Palestinians as a branch of Syrians. Lebanon is a Septuagint fiction. The so-called Transjordan was a Sykes-Picot fiction. It was what was left over after Syria and Saudi were accounted for. By 2500 years of history and tradition Palestine should never have been separated from Syria but religious superstition as well as dividing seaports with France appears to have ruled. It was also continguous with Egypt where Britain held the dominant position.

Britain broke out Palestine from Transjordan giving it an independent status it never had in all real history and in only one religious superstition that of the Septuagint. France invented Lebanon and separated it from Syria for the purpose of creating a Christian state and they fucked that up too because, after all, they are the French.

As to the political history Lebanon became the first democracy in the middle east in 1943, five years before Israel claims that same dubious honor. That also makes it the oldest democracy in the middle east.

Of course there are volumes more relevant material on just the post WWI history but that is a good enough summary if anyone is interested in going further.

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Message 1000586 - Posted: 4 Jun 2010, 10:54:48 UTC - in response to Message 1000559.  
Last modified: 4 Jun 2010, 11:01:45 UTC

Matt_Giwer

Israel is a "barrier" to what? Jordanians marching into the sea? As Israel keeps telling us, it is all it can do to protect its own survival. It is certainly not doing anything else for anyone. What are you trying to say?

Do you think they stop? Their goal is world halifate no matter what.
Let me tell about radikal muslims. Strange fact, why all the terrorists are radikal muslims? Why not some radikal chrisians? Or someone else?

You know this for a fact or did you hear it from the impartial Izzies? As you know they never met a non-Jew they didn't like.

It's 'normal' every-day tactics that was been used very wide in Checnya and around. I don't see any reason why i should not to beleive that IDF face to the same. Ypu see, your value system for them, all that crap about cold murder, kids killing, freedom to something, rights of thomething - _is your weakness, nothing more to them_. So the will use it. It is simple. There's nothing about humanity because there's no humanity.


Trust me when I tell you this. I have never, NEVER said Israel was any better than Hamas. You have no need to compare them for me.

I think another way
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_shield#Gaza_and_the_West_Bank[/u]
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Message 1000592 - Posted: 4 Jun 2010, 11:39:54 UTC

And i think yet another way.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/04/11/world/main2674604.shtml

The terror-stricken 24-year-old Palestinian said he soon found himself forced onto the front lines of Israel's war against militants, a human shield as he led heavily armed soldiers from house to house. “I was afraid I would die,” he said in a recent interview.

For several years, Palestinians had complained about the army's use of human shields, but proof was difficult to come by. Then in late February, Associated Press Television News captured footage of the incident involving Amira.


http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/news/gaza-civilians-endangered-military-tactics-both-sides-20090108

Both Israeli soldiers and Palestinian gunmen are continuing to fire at each other from areas close to civilian homes, endangering their inhabitants.


The practice by Israeli soldiers of taking over Palestinian civilians’ homes and holding their inhabitants as human shields while using the house as a shooting position has been very common in the past eight years both in the Gaza Strip and in the West Bank. In a previous incursion in the Gaza Strip in March 2008, Israeli soldiers took over at least three houses in the north and in February 2008 soldiers took over another house in the village of Beit Ummar, near Hebron, in the West Bank.


So Alex, you claim these Israeli soldiers are radical Muslim terrorists using human shields?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/3128224/Jewish-terrorism-threatens-Israel.html

Professor Zeev Sternhell knows as much as anyone about the current threat from Jewish terrorism.

His right leg is recovering from shrapnel caused when a bomb, believed to have been the work of right-wing Jewish extremists, exploded outside the front door of his Jerusalem apartment last week.


The Telegraph must be mistaken Alex, it had to be Muslim terrorists according to your generalizations.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/standing-up-to-jewish-terrorism-1.258797

Standing up to Jewish terrorism
This week, Israel has reached the point of no return, which will also determine who controls the state: the justice system and a government elected by democratic means, or Jewish terrorism.


Hmm, Jewish newspaper talking about Jewish terrorism and terrorists. But Alex, once again they must be mistaken. They must be referring to radical Muslims.

You better get in contact with the Jewish paper Haaretz, and let them know of their errors.
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Message 1000607 - Posted: 4 Jun 2010, 12:39:32 UTC
Last modified: 4 Jun 2010, 12:57:18 UTC

Hmm, Jewish newspaper talking about Jewish terrorism and terrorists
They _can_ talk only because there's democracy.
“Fighters on both sides must not carry out attacks from civilian areas but when they do take cover behind a civilian house or building to fire it does not make that building and its civilian inhabitants a legitimate military target. Any such attacks are unlawful,” said Malcolm Smart.

This man clearly insane. It's very simple to sit in warm chair long way distance with criticizm. There no any law at war. Never was. The difference between IDF and Hamas is simple - IDF don't want innocent victums(they already have enough)_, hamas - wants because it will look as innocent victum what means profit. So IDF put civilians into the basement, hamas - at the line of gunfire.

In some place (all know what i'm talking about) there was only one working tactic - carpet bombing. One shoot - all killed in answer. IF they know that sure will happen, they stop protecting terrorist, give them bed, place to hide and etc. They understand only force. That worked. But israeli never will do that. That why they will loose soon or later. Israel will vanish.

And after that,. there will be al lot of fun all around the world, including this place (*assembles and loads imaginary AK*)
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Message 1000613 - Posted: 4 Jun 2010, 12:59:36 UTC - in response to Message 1000607.  
Last modified: 4 Jun 2010, 13:26:04 UTC

There no any law at war. Never was.


If you write absurd statements like that, how can you criticize, say, Hamas, who you accuse of using human shields as a terrorist organization? Couldn't they simply be fighting another style of conventional warfare?...since as you state war has no laws.

You contradict yourself.

In some place (all know what i'm talking about) there was only one working tactic - carpet bombing. One shoot - all killed in answer. IF they know that sure will happen, they stop protecting terrorist, give them bed, place to hide and etc. They understand only force. That worked. But israeli never will do that.


The difference between IDF and Hamas is simple - IDF don't want innocent victums(they already have enough)


http://cbs3.com/topstories/israel.gaza.war.2.1087420.html

Israeli soldiers who fought in last winter's Gaza War say the military used Palestinians as human shields, improperly fired incendiary white phosphorous shells over civilian areas and used overwhelming firepower that caused needless deaths and destruction, according to a report released Wednesday.


I'd say that's as close an analogy as you'll need to fit what you've quoted. Instead of carpet bombing, they substitute white phosphorous
and used overwhelming firepower that caused needless deaths and destruction.

Take a read of those, look at the rubbish you've written, and you'll see all the answers you've asked for. Denying what you read against what you've stated will not make you look any better.

Try reading before posting unfounded accusations.
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Message 1000616 - Posted: 4 Jun 2010, 13:28:05 UTC - in response to Message 1000613.  


If you write absurd statements like that, how can you criticize, say, Hamas, who you accuse of using human shields as a terrorist organization? Couldn't they simply be fighting another style of conventional warfare?...since as you state war has no laws.

Im not criticizing Hamas at all. It have very effective style of information war. When Iran develops nuke or get some non-nuke modern weapon (vacuum bomb for exaple), it power will overwhem Israel's totally and - phew!

I just simply laughing at people who believes humans right watch or smtg like which put charges on one side and speciially ingnores another.

Nood to run. later
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Message 1000617 - Posted: 4 Jun 2010, 13:40:02 UTC
Last modified: 4 Jun 2010, 13:40:52 UTC

Alex, it's just harder to track Hamas's alledged acts, as they aren't as easily caught on film as tanks, artillery, fighter planes, drones, bulldozers etc all doing the wrong thing at the time.

Nearly forgot. Include the navy and commandos in above list. Latest in the Hall of Shame.
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Message 1000662 - Posted: 4 Jun 2010, 16:22:54 UTC - in response to Message 1000617.  

I have one last thing to say on this. This is a legitimate blockade. Hamas is the defacto gov't of Gaza. Hamas has declared war on Israel and promised not to rest until Israel is destroyed. A logical defense for israel is to blockade and restrict access to Gazan ports and inspect all shipments headed to Gaza. This is a legitimate tactic(read law) of war. The Palestinian people are getting their supplies but they are to be inspected to limit or eliminate arms shipments.

I was listening a report on the 9 dead from the boarded ship. It appears that those that found death were members of very conservative movements and apparently were spoiling for a fight. A former American diplomat on another ship reported that Gihadist were bringing out green flags which are considered the banner of the Gihad. this was clearly intended to provoke the Israelis. this blockade run was intended to increase tentions and it certainly did just that.


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Message 1000722 - Posted: 4 Jun 2010, 21:18:20 UTC - in response to Message 1000586.  
Last modified: 4 Jun 2010, 21:20:23 UTC

Matt_Giwer

Israel is a "barrier" to what? Jordanians marching into the sea? As Israel keeps telling us, it is all it can do to protect its own survival. It is certainly not doing anything else for anyone. What are you trying to say?

Do you think they stop? Their goal is world halifate no matter what.
Let me tell about radikal muslims. Strange fact, why all the terrorists are radikal muslims? Why not some radikal chrisians? Or someone else?


I keep hearing things like that from fruitcakes like Jerry Falwell, Hargee and other well known idiots. Are you saying you believe people like that?

Here I am trying to have a factual discussion and you bring in the crap from Christian nutjobs. Why?

Now if you knew the subject: up until the late 1960s the Palestinian leaders of the resistance to Zionism were Christians. The majority of the factions united by Arafat were lead by Christians. And as below you bring up Chechnya just how does one distinguish between such terrorists and the Red Army?

You know this for a fact or did you hear it from the impartial Izzies? As you know they never met a non-Jew they didn't like.


It's 'normal' every-day tactics that was been used very wide in Checnya and around. I don't see any reason why i should not to beleive that IDF face to the same. Ypu see, your value system for them, all that crap about cold murder, kids killing, freedom to something, rights of thomething - _is your weakness, nothing more to them_. So the will use it. It is simple. There's nothing about humanity because there's no humanity.


The tactics of Russia in Afghanistan in the 80s are quite well documented including the exploding kids toys. Pardon me if I have no sympathy for the Russians getting as good as they gave. As for the right of self determination for the people of Chechnya I am not against it but I see no cause for Russian rule in any event. Consider the decades of Bolshevik terror the Russians visited upon Chechnya. I can see why they might hold a grudge or five.

Trust me when I tell you this. I have never, NEVER said Israel was any better than Hamas. You have no need to compare them for me.

I think another way

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_shield#Gaza_and_the_West_Bank[/u]


In Israel the human shield is called various things such as the "neighbor policy." Under several names it has been outlawed by their own Supreme Court many times over the years. And the "most moral army in the world" has never stopped using Palestinians as human shields.

As I said, I have never said Israel was any better than the Palestinians. I have pointed out they have yet to use all the terrorist methods against the Jews that the Jews have used against them and against the British. For example they have yet to kidnap and hang IDF members nor bomb a major hotel.
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Message 1000735 - Posted: 4 Jun 2010, 21:50:33 UTC - in response to Message 1000607.  

Hmm, Jewish newspaper talking about Jewish terrorism and terrorists
They _can_ talk only because there's democracy.
“Fighters on both sides must not carry out attacks from civilian areas but when they do take cover behind a civilian house or building to fire it does not make that building and its civilian inhabitants a legitimate military target. Any such attacks are unlawful,” said Malcolm Smart.


This man clearly insane. It's very simple to sit in warm chair long way distance with criticizm. There no any law at war. Never was. The difference between IDF and Hamas is simple - IDF don't want innocent victums(they already have enough)_, hamas - wants because it will look as innocent victum what means profit. So IDF put civilians into the basement, hamas - at the line of gunfire.


Lets see. You make a false statement. You get called on with proper citation, and then you want to justify/excuse/pretend Jews still do not use human shields. And how does this work? Jews do it differently which is also a false statement. I have read dozens of reports of the IDF using human shields and not a single one of them said a single word about basements. In every case they were held in one room of the normal living area without food, water or sanitation often for days at a time. Further when the most moral army in the world finally does leave the rest of the home has been trashed and almost always anti-Islam slogans on scrawled on the walls with Jewish shit. Literally the excrement of the most moral army in the world is used to deface the walls.

You really should take the time to in fact learn something about the subject before posting. If you do not you leave me with the problem of assuming you do know the subject and are in fact deliberately posting false statements.

In some place (all know what i'm talking about) there was only one working tactic - carpet bombing. One shoot - all killed in answer. IF they know that sure will happen, they stop protecting terrorist, give them bed, place to hide and etc. They understand only force. That worked. But israeli never will do that. That why they will loose soon or later. Israel will vanish.

And after that,. there will be al lot of fun all around the world, including this place (*assembles and loads imaginary AK*)


That you would support with deliberately false statements these terrorist Jews sort of explains why you support the atrocities of the Red Army in Afghanistan and whine about free Chechnya.

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Message 1000745 - Posted: 4 Jun 2010, 22:23:53 UTC - in response to Message 1000662.  
Last modified: 4 Jun 2010, 22:27:35 UTC

I have one last thing to say on this. This is a legitimate blockade.


Realizing there is no basis to claim the blockade is legal the term of art is now the ambiguous legitimate hoping to divert the discussion. However I will stick with the description of it as unlawful as both the blockade and the boarding are contrary to existing law.

Hamas is the defacto gov't of Gaza. Hamas has declared war on Israel


As you failed the challenge to produce a law which makes Israel's actions legitimate, lets try another challenge. WHERE CAN I READ THIS DECLARATION OF WAR? Do you happen to have a url perhaps? Perhaps you can recite it from memory if you cannot find a url.

I await your next change of words to avoid admitting there is no evidence of any declaration of war.

and promised not to rest until Israel is destroyed.


You can read Zionist writings such as Jabotinski's Iron Wall and find the plans and intent to kill off or expel the Palestinians going back to the 1920s. As that is what the Jews did, it appears to me the Jews began the aggression of their own free choice.

It is the government of Israel which used the color of law to steal the private property of the Palestinians. It is the government of Israel which prevents the lawful owners of the land from returning to claim it.

As there is no recourse in law for these victims of the Jews the use of deadly force is moral.

Yet the thieving Jews whine when they have to pay a price for their crimes.

A logical defense for israel is to blockade and restrict access to Gazan ports and inspect all shipments headed to Gaza. This is a legitimate tactic(read law) of war. The Palestinian people are getting their supplies but they are to be inspected to limit or eliminate arms shipments.


As Gaza has been blockaded to some extent since 1967 what do the current events in Gaza have to do with it?

As you KNOW FOR A FACT this blockade goes far beyond weapons which have been subject to a blockade since it started in 1967. Nothing has changed since 1967 with regard to an arms embargo.

YOU KNOW the issue is the blockade of both the type and quantity of food by this grievously immoral army. You know this criminal army is blockading hundreds of items needed for every day life such as shoes and clothing.

Yet you keep trying to get back to weapons as though that is something new when in fact importing weapons has been prohibited for 43 years.

Do you really think you can post nonsense like this and not be called out for it?

I was listening a report on the 9 dead from the boarded ship. It appears that those that found death were members of very conservative movements and apparently were spoiling for a fight. A former American diplomat on another ship reported that Gihadist were bringing out green flags which are considered the banner of the Gihad. this was clearly intended to provoke the Israelis. this blockade run was intended to increase tentions and it certainly did just that.


How can the most immoral army in the world be provoked to do worse than they do as a matter of course?

They were going to "provoke" the poor boys. Don't they know there was a holocaust?

=====

A Jewish boy joined the British army during WWI. His mother gives him some motherly advice. "Shoot a Turk and rest," she tells him, "Always take a rest after shooting a Turk." Her son replies, "What if a Turk tries to shoot me?" To which his mother responded with astonishment, "Why would he do such a thing? What have you ever done to him?"
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Message 1000752 - Posted: 4 Jun 2010, 23:34:47 UTC - in response to Message 1000745.  
Last modified: 4 Jun 2010, 23:38:41 UTC

You do understand the concept of countries being at war. While at war it is in the best interest of one country to Blockade, if possible, the others shipping. Please note this was particularly successful for the Nazis during WWII. They used submarines to prevent war goods from reaching England in a hope to prevent their enemy from arming itself well enough to engage the Nazis on the European continent and not in England.

The context is identical. Its a historical fact that countries at war do this. by denying this doesnt make your point correct. It just means that you are unable to see facts. I will once again refer you to the Family Guy for your insightful argument tactics.

I hate to belabor a point but just saying "no its not isnt" please pull a few facts out of your hat that demonstrate that a country at war with its neighbor isn't allowed to blockade its neighbors coast

Michael Palin is correct. failing that I suggest you heed his final statement


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Message 1000763 - Posted: 5 Jun 2010, 0:21:36 UTC - in response to Message 1000752.  

You do understand the concept of countries being at war.


I asked after your assertion that a war had been declared. I am still waiting for confirmation of that assertion. Will you attempt to supply it? You must have read it some place. I know you would not make up such a thing.

Yes I am familiar with countries being at war. I am also aware Gaza is not a country. It is not even a part of a country. Why do you ask a completely unrelated question? Why do you think I will respond to a question unrelated to the matter under discussion? Why are you trying to introduce an irrelevant discussion?

You are also implying this arms embargo is something new and you are also trying to FALSELY claim this is only an arms embargo. You know better. Why do you refuse to discuss this event in terms of what is real and true instead of what you know is not true and false? Is it too much for me to expect and honest discussion?

While at war it is in the best interest of one country to Blockade, if possible, the others shipping. Please note this was particularly successful for the Nazis during WWII. They used submarines to prevent war goods from reaching England in a hope to prevent their enemy from arming itself well enough to engage the Nazis on the European continent and not in England.


As you can show no evidence of Gaza being a country nor of having declared war and as Israel does not recognize Hamas as other than a terrorist organization and certainly not the political organization lawfully ruling Gaza and as Israel does not recognize Hamas in any form as the lawful government of Gaza WHY do you continue to talk in terms which are completely inapplicable?

(Hint: No country recognizes Hamas as the lawful government of the State of Gaza. Where in the hell did you get the ridiculous idea you could discuss it in those terms? Even the government in Ramallah wants to liberate the Gazans from Hamas rule.)

You are giving me the strong impression you are trying to avoid addressing the facts and would rather talk about something which exists only in some Hasbara fantasy land.

I guess I should find your comparison of jewish Israelis with Nazis gratuitous but in this case I think you have hit the nail on the head. However, in WWII Germany did declare a Naval war zone so they did it the legal way so they deserve points where Israel does not. OTOH, both Germany and Israel are blocking consumer goods as well as food and medicine from Gaza so in that way they are the same as the Nazis.

I really do not know where you think you are going with this Nazi justification. Could you explain?

The context is identical. Its a historical fact that countries at war do this. by denying this doesnt make your point correct. It just means that you are unable to see facts. I will once again refer you to the Family Guy for your insightful argument tactics.


I cannot respond when you knowingly, wilfully and deliberately use terms which are inapplicable to the massacre under discussion.

I hate to belabor a point but just saying "no its not isnt" please pull a few facts out of your hat that demonstrate that a country at war with its neighbor isn't allowed to blockade its neighbors coast


Another attempt at diversion by bringing up irrelevant analogies has failed. Gaza is not a country or a part of a country. Hamas in Gaza is considered a terrorist oganization not a political organization. It is not recognized as the lawful government of Gaza.

You KNOW an arms blockade of Gaza has been in place for 43 years. You KNOW Israel is blockading things with no possible military application.

Why in the hell do you want to talk about Gaza as though it is a country? Why cannot you simply discuss the matters at hand and ALL the things which are prohibited to Gaza which are all NEW things never before blockaded? Too hard? Why are the facts too hard for you to deal with?

Michael Palin is correct. failing that I suggest you heed his final statement


Sorry but I do not consider Michael Palin any more of a political or legal authority than Sarah Palin. However if you would have him log on here and post his own ideas on this subject I will be happy to discuss with him what he posts.

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Message 1000807 - Posted: 5 Jun 2010, 3:14:26 UTC

Haaretz is the oldest Hebrew language newspaper having been published in Palestine before the founding of Israel. Here is the evidence Israel wants more than just a weapons inspection.

Haaretz

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/passengers-of-rachel-corrie-reject-israel-ireland-deal-1.294173

* Published 08:37 04.06.10
* Latest update 17:38 04.06.10

Passengers of 'Rachel Corrie' reject Israel-Ireland deal

Irish government offers MV Rachel Corrie ship to divert to Israeli port of
Ashdod instead of Gaza; Foreign Ministry: Israel doesn't want a
confrontation with the Gaza-bound ship.

By Barak Ravid and Haaretz Service

Passengers on board the MV Rachel Corrie ship have rejected a proposed
agreement made between the Israeli and Irish governments to divert the ship
to the Israeli port of Ashdod instead of the coast of Gaza.

Following the passengers' rejection of the agreement, the forum of seven
high ranking ministers decided to go ahead with the plan to stop the ship
and take it over, as was done with the previous Gaza flotilla.

Over the last few days the Foreign Ministry has been trying to come to a
diplomatic solution with the organizers of the ship, under the Irish
government's mediation.

During negotiations, the ship's passengers emphasized that they were willing to undergo a security check by the Israel Defense Forces in the ocean to verify there were no weapons on the ship, but demanded they then be allowed to pass to the coast of Gaza.

Israel refused, and demanded the security check take place in the Ashdod port and that the ship's cargo would be transferred from there to the Gaza Strip, under the supervision of passengers and Irish diplomats.


After someone claimed Israel only wanted to inspect for weapons I pointed out that was not true but rather it was to increase the income of Israel trucking companies.

Here we have the passengers of the Rachael Corrie (an American murdered by the IDF a few years ago) announce they have no problem with a weapons inspection at sea. If that is all Israel wants then it should accept the offer. But Israel has rejected it demanding offloading in Israel and being shipped by Israeli companies.

Clearly Israel is interested in more than weapons traffic as if that were its interest it could have that. As the only difference IF in fact all the materiels could be delivered to Gaza is where the inspection occurs then Israel would accept this offer and avoid the effort and risk of further political damage. Rather Israel wants something more that what its apologists try to claim.

Ireland's Minister for Foreign Affairs, Micheal Martin, issued a statement on Friday on the failed agreement.

"On Friday morning, an understanding was reached with the Israeli government
whereby the Rachel Corrie would have approached the Israeli exclusion zone
before accepting diversion to the Israeli port of Ashdod. At Ashdod, the
cargo would have been unloaded and inspected under the supervision of UN and
officials from the Irish Aid Division of my Department.

"The entire cargo, including what is understood to be 550 tonnes of cement,
would then have been transported to Gaza. Two persons from the Rachel
Corrie would have been permitted to accompany the cargo to the Israeli
border crossing into Gaza at Erez.

"In my view, such an arrangement would have offered a useful precedent for
future humanitarian shipments, pending the complete lifting of the
blockade," he said.


Is this clown really trying to tell us that Israel is planning to lift the weapons embargo? If not then this is more than a weapons embargo.

Martin then said that those on board the MV Rachel Corrie, "after careful
consideration," rejected the agreement, and emphasized that he "fully
respects their right to do so and to continue their protest action by
seeking to sail to Gaza."

He also called on Israel to refrain from using force on the passengers of
the Rachel Corrie ship.

"If, as is their stated intention, the Israeli government intercepts the
Rachel Corrie, the Government demands that it demonstrate every restraint.
Those on board the Rachel Corrie have made clear their peaceful intentions
and have stated that they will offer no resistance to Israeli forces. Based
on these assurances, there can be no justification for the use of force
against any person on board the Rachel Corrie."

Israel's Foreign Ministry issued a statement on Friday emphasizing that
Israel does not want a confrontation with the Gaza-bound ship the MV Rachel
Corrie.

"We have no desire for a confrontation. We have no desire to board the ship.
If the ship decides to sail the port of Ashdod, then we will ensure its safe
arrival and will not board it," said the Foreign Ministry Director-General
Yossi Gal.

The MV Rachel Corrie is headed directly for the Gaza Strip with hundreds of
tons of humanitarian aid and is expected reach Israel's 20-mile exclusion
zone within the next day, a spokesman for the pro-Palestinian group
organizing the mission said on Friday.

"Israel is prepared to receive the ship and to offload its contents. After
an inspection to ensure that no weapons and war materials are on board, we
are prepared to deliver all of the goods to Gaza," the Foreign Ministry's
statement read.

"Representative of the people on board and relevant NGOs are welcome to
accompany the goods to the crossings. We will work with the UN and
international organizations to ensure that all the goods are used for the
benefit of the people of Gaza."

The Foreign Ministry's statement was issued following a discussion between
the ministers of the forum of seven on Friday afternoon in Jerusalem. The
statement seems to hint that Israel's attempts at coming to a resolution
with the ship's passengers have reached a dead end.

According to a government source in Jerusalem, Prime Minister Benjamin
Netanyahu instructed the foreign ministry's director-general Yossi Gal to
invite the foreign press and to issue the statement, in order to make
Israel's stance perfectly clear to the ship's passengers and to the
international community.

The MV Rachel Corrie had initially planned to reach the Gaza Strip sometime
this week, despite an Israel Navy raid on the first six ships in the
humanitarian aid convoy on Monday that left nine people dead and several
more wounded.

Despite reports that the 1,200-ton ship was heading back to Ireland due to
technical difficulties involving its two accompanying vessels, Free Gaza
Movement spokeswoman Greta Berlin said the ship was on schedule and had no
plans to stop in any port along the way.

Free Gaza's legal adviser, Audrey Bomse, earlier Friday said that the ship
was planning to return to Ireland in the coming days due to Israel's
"sabotage" of the two passenger boats meant to carry journalists. Bomse
told Army Radio that the vessels sustained such serious technical damage
while docked in Greece last weekend that they would not be able to sail for
weeks.

Bomse was quoted by Army Radio on Friday as saying that the ship would only
attempt to breach the Gaza blockade once accompanied by the two passenger
vessels. She also said that the activists would refuse any diplomatic
solution offered by Israel.

The legal adviser reportedly told Army Radio that her movement's goal was
not just to bring aid to Gaza, but to send a message to Israel. Activists
would not stop sending these ship to Gaza until Israel agree to lift its
blockade, the radio quoted Bomse as saying.

The Rachel Corrie's trip to Gaza is sponsored by two non-governmental
organizations, from Ireland and Malaysia. On board is Irish Nobel Peace
Prize laureate Mairead Maguire and former United Nations deputy
secretary-general Denis Halliday. Also on board are Malaysians from a group
sponsored by the former prime minister of Malaysia.

The ship was to have been part of the flotilla that was stopped at sea early
Monday morning, but was delayed due to the technical problems. Its cargo
includes cement and medical equipment such as a tomograph (CT), as well as
toys and printing paper.


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Message 1000835 - Posted: 5 Jun 2010, 6:02:08 UTC
Last modified: 5 Jun 2010, 6:08:39 UTC

An Israeli paper has published the Exodus analogy I mentioned. You can always trust a Zionist to be a Zionist. They can do what no one else can do. A publicity stunt to turn the world against Britain was fine when they did it but evil when their fellow Europeans do it. At least they claim to be Europeans in culture, the very outpost of western civilization in the middle east, but they insist the "Arabs" force them to behave like the "I spit in your general direction" Arabs.

Are we to excuse them because they claim without evidence that they cannot show weakness in that part of the world when they chose of their own free will to go to that part of the world? At best we can say they chose a place that would give them an excuse to out-nazi the Nazis. But the zionist criminal conspiracy began before Hitler was born so the Nazi reference is not completely legitimate.

Here, by their own free choice, the Zionists have given moral superiority to the Freedom Flotilla in the same way they claimed it from the British. And all we get it "see it our way" as though we do not see it from their point of view and still condemn it. We do see what they are saying and we still condemn it. Just because Jews choose to believe it justifies Jews does not mean anyone else sees it that way.

These short-sighted propagandists do nothing but preach to the converted. They repeat hasbara that they themselves already choose to believe and it is deliberately framed to only appeal to Izziehuggers who already believe it. Anyone who does not accept simply hates Jews. It is sort of like condemning people as antisemitic if they refuse to understand Yiddish no matter how loudly spoken nor how often repeated. If people refuse to accept the explanations that only play to professed and converted Izziehuggers, those already decided, then it is only because they hate Israel and Jews in equal measure.

The greater Israel's atrocities the more antisemitic the people who mention the atrocities.

Haaretz

hobbled-by-political-constraints-1.294149.html

* Published 02:02 04.06.10
* Latest update 02:02 04.06.10

Hobbled by political constraints

By Allegra Pacheco

Once more the Palestinians have usurped another page from the Zionist
narrative: the Freedom Flotilla - an updated remake of Exodus 1947. In
"Exodus II," instead of a boat full of Holocaust survivors seeking refuge,
there are some 700 civilians from around the world on a flotilla of boats,
on a mission to deliver 10,000 tons of humanitarian aid to over 1.4 million
Gazan Palestinians under siege. In this version, their path will not be
blocked by the once all-powerful British navy, but by the mighty Israel
Navy, whose warships are manned proudly by the grandchildren of "Exodus I"
survivors. As in the original version, the passengers know that they are no
match for the powerful navy, that people will be killed and injured and the
boats will not reach their destination.

Most significant is the similarity in the motivation of the activists to
take matters into their own hands despite the odds, after the failure of the
international community to provide the necessary relief. Clearly, no
government has been successful in forcing Israel to end its three-year siege
of the Palestinian population of Gaza - half of them children. The
blockade, which the most senior UN officials have characterized as
collective punishment - and thus a violation of humanitarian law - has
resulted in a severe crisis of human dignity, entailing an enormous loss of
livelihoods and a deterioration in basic services like sanitation, health,
education and water supply.

With shortages of essential goods and nearly zero exports, approximately 70
percent of industrial establishments remain closed, 100,000 people have lost
their jobs, and unemployment stands at around 40 percent, one of the highest
in the world. Indeed, in the last three years, the number of Gazan refugees
living in abject poverty has tripled, from 100,000 to 300,000, according to
the UN Relief and Works Agency.

True, no one is starving in Gaza - Israel allows in just enough food
assistance to prevent that from happening. Despite the aid, though, 61
percent of Gazan households remain "food insecure," meaning they do not have
assured access to food sources. And it's not just food that is lacking:
Gaza faces serious environmental and infrastructure problems, as 90 percent
of its natural water resources are undrinkable, 46 percent of its
agricultural land is inaccessible or destroyed, and there are electrical
outages lasting eight to 10 hours a day. The Strip also faces a housing
crisis, with shortages of 30,000 units, though recently Israel allowed the
import of cement for UNRWA to build 151 units.

As it is clear to those who joined the Exodus II flotilla that the siege
must be stopped before the suffering deepens, sadly it has also become clear
that Egypt, as part of its opposition to Hamas' rule in Gaza, will not open
its Rafah crossing on the Gaza border for the passage of supplies into the
Strip. The people involved with "Exodus II" also understand that most Arab
and Western governments are not going to take any effective steps to
pressure Egypt to open up this channel to relief.

And most clear to those involved is that the organized international aid
community will not take any action beyond making pious statements to get the
needed goods into Gaza, despite knowing full well that their aid is
insufficient to stop a deteriorating situation. These traditional aid
players - UN and Western international relief agencies - continue to comply
with the political limitations imposed on them by the Quartet and Western
donors: They transfer their assistance only via Israel's restricted
crossings, maintain a "no-contact" policy with senior officials in Hamas
ministries that deal with humanitarian and social affairs, and mostly
refrain from buying goods on the Gaza market smuggled through the tunnels,
since the fees and profits ostensibly support Hamas or their sympathizers.
With all these prohibitions and restrictions, much of the UN and Western NGO
aid has been rendered practically ineffective. Indeed, a new UN Development
Programme report on international aid in Gaza highlights this and the fact
that the Strip's recovery efforts benefited from greater support last year
from Arab donors and Islamic international NGOs (such as those in Turkey)
than from UN organizations and Western international NGOs.

The "Exodus II" flotilla sailed out to sea with tons of humanitarian aid
when it became clear that these relief agencies were failing to live up to
their own guiding principles of ensuring neutral and independent operational
space and causing no harm to beneficiaries.

"Depriving people of their right to live a dignified life should raise an
issue of moral conscience," declared the UNDP report last week. And yet,
following the Israeli takeover of the flotilla on Monday, UN aid agencies
issued a statement that "all this" could have been avoided had Israel lifted
its blockade.

Probably. But where's the moral conscience here? Wouldn't this also have
been avoidable if the UN and the Western organizations had assumed the
leadership and flown their flags on these ships of aid? What further
tragedies need to occur for them to decide to break the siege? In all
probability, had the international aid organizations used their moral clout
earlier and refused to comply with the political restraints imposed on their
delivery of relief, the siege would have been lifted long ago.

Exodus I shook up the British Empire and forced the UN to take over
responsibility for the Palestine issue in 1947. The tragic fate of the
Freedom Flotilla on May 31 impels the UN and Western international relief
organizations to live up to their humanitarian mandates and do all that is
necessary to come to the aid of the besieged people of the Gaza Strip.
Until then, the Exodus II saga of humanitarian defiance will continue to
play out in the waters of the Mediterranean.

Allegra Pacheco is an American/Israeli lawyer who worked in an international
humanitarian organization in the occupied territories for the last seven
years.


The credentials of the author are as impeccable as those of the newspaper as far as Izziehuggers are concerned. She has worked under the Israeli occupation for seven years. If her description can be refuted with evidence please someone post the evidence.

I have asked only that this discussion be based upon the known facts and in terms which describe the known facts. I am not angry. There are no tempers to cool down. I am only posting things like this on the assumption the Izziehuggers here are legitimately ignorant of the Israeli imposed conditions of the people in Gaza which they are so vigorously defending.
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Message 1000850 - Posted: 5 Jun 2010, 7:30:13 UTC

As I previously agreed the causes of death would have to await the autopsies from Turkey. Here is a first look at them.

report-autopsy-shows-gaza-activists-were-shot-a-total-of-30-time
s-1.294255.html

Haaretz

* Published 02:06 05.06.10
* Latest update 02:06 05.06.10

Report: Autopsy shows Gaza activists were shot a total of 30 times

Nine Turkish activists killed in an Israeli raid on a Gaza-bound ship,
including one with U.S. citizenship, were shot a total of 30 times and five
died of gunshot wounds to the head, Britain's Guardian newspaper says.

By Reuters

Nine Turkish activists killed in an Israeli raid on a Gaza-bound aid ship
were shot a total of 30 times and five died of gunshot wounds to the head,
Britain's Guardian newspaper reported on Friday.

Autopsy results showed the men were hit mostly with 9mm bullets, many fired
at close range, the Guardian said, quoting Yalcin Buyuk, vice-chairman of
the Turkish council of forensic medicine which carried out the autopsies on
Friday.

Israeli commandos stormed a flotilla of aid ships planning to break the
Israeli sea blockade of Gaza on Monday. The deaths, which all took place on
one ship, the Mavi Marmara, drew widespread condemnation.

Israel said the marines who rappelled onto the Mavi Marmara fired in
self-defense after activists attacked them with clubs and knives as well as
two pistols snatched from the commandos.

The autopsy results showed that a 60-year-old man, Ibrahim Bilgen, was shot
four times in the temple, chest, hip and back, the Guardian said.

A 19-year-old, named as Fulkan Dogan, who also has U.S. citizenship, as shot
five times from less than 45 cm away, in the face, the back of the head,
twice in the leg and once in the back, it said.

Two other men were shot four times. Five of those killed were shot either in
the back of the head or in the back, the Guardian quoted Buyuk as saying.

In addition to those killed, 48 others suffered gunshot wounds and six
activists were still missing, he added.

Israel said the multiple gunshot wounds did not mean the shots were fired
other than in self defense.


Correct. But it also means that these multiple gunshot wounds to the head clearly demonstrates that fate also hates the Jews because purely by chance these wounds indicate execution of the wounded, confirming the kill, which in the real world is called murder. In terms of warfare it is called a war crime. It is also the policy of the IDF despite numerous prohibitions by the Israeli Supreme Court.

"The only situation when a soldier shot was when it was a clearly a
life-threatening situation," the Guardian quoted a spokesman for the Israeli
embassy in London as saying.

"Pulling the trigger quickly can result in a few bullets being in the same
body, but does not change the fact they were in a life-threatening
situation," the spokesman said.


This is another indication that Israel only says that which Izziehuggers can choose to believe instead of the evidence of reality. And if you refuse to believe this incredibly back luck of the circumstantial evidence then you hate Jews and say the Red Sea did not part and smell bad and your mother dresses you funny.

The newspaper quoted Haluk Ince, chairman of the council of forensic
medicine in Istanbul, as saying that in only one case was there a single
bullet wound, to the forehead from a distant shot, while every other body
showed multiple wounds.

He said all but one of the bullets retrieved from the bodies came from 9mm
rounds. Of the other round, Ince said: "It was the first time we have seen
this kind of material used in firearms.

"It was just a container including many types of pellets usually used in
shotguns. It penetrated the head region in the temple and we found it
intact in the brain."

No-one at Turkey's forensic laboratory could immediately be reached for
comment.


There you have all the evidence a reasonable person would consider to be evidence of at least eight executions, murders for those who do not know what execution means.

Note the Israeli spokesrat did not deny the multiple bullets nor the head shots so they stand as fact. All you have to do to say this was not murder is suspend disbelief and agree with the spokesrat that it does not necessarily mean executions and therefore it can only bad luck with the gods not favoring Israel.

As Israel has had a policy of murdering people who get in its way from its beginning there is no reason to think this was not the case here.

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Message 1000858 - Posted: 5 Jun 2010, 8:31:09 UTC

Latest on the Rachael Corrie, the ship named after the woman murdered by the most moral army in the world.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/idf-gaza-bound-ship-rachel-corrie-ignores-order-to-stop-1.294265

Haaretz

* Published 06:16 05.06.10
* Latest update 09:25 05.06.10

IDF: Gaza-bound ship 'Rachel Corrie' ignores order to stop

Army spokesman said Israel navy was gearing for the possibility of a
forceful takeover of the Gaza aid ship if it fails to comply.

By Amos Harel, Haaretz Service and News Agencies

The "Rachel Corrie" humanitarian aid ship has ignored an invitation to
unload its cargo at an Israeli port and chose to continue its trip toward
Gaza, an Israel Defense Forces spokesman said Saturday.

The IDF said that despite radioing the ship, its organizers "chose to ignore
the invitation to dock at the Ashdod port where the cargo could be unloaded
and transferred to the Gaza Strip upon inspection."


Such an invitation. If you decline this generous and kind invitation we will not hesitate to murder you. We showed you that. You are supposed to fear death and obey the imperial Jew defending its sovereignty over what the world considers occupied territory. I can cite Israel's statement of this should anyone think this incorrect.

The spokesman added that the Israeli military is preparing for the
possibility of a takeover similar to that attempted earlier this week on the
"Freedom Flotilla," if the "Rachel Corrie" chooses to proceed toward Gaza.
Earlier Saturday it was reported that the Israeli navy intercepted and was
shadowing an Irish-owned aid ship bound for Gaza on Saturday, but a
spokeswoman for the activists aboard said an earlier report that troops were
aboard the vessel was wrong.

"They have not been boarded. They are being followed," said Greta Berlin of
the Free Gaza movement, who added that contact with those aboard the Rachel
Corrie was intermittent. The group had based its earlier statement about a
boarding on an unconfirmed report from an Israeli radio station, Berlin
said.


It appears Israel has not yet started jamming radio communications as it did last time to prevent real time reports of events. If Israel is telling the truth, what do they fear?

Al Jazeera television quoted a journalist aboard the vessel saying: "We can see some Israeli ships a little away from us.

"They are following us. There has been no contact."

The clarification came after conflicting reports emerged early on Saturday
morning over whether Israel had boarded a Gaza-bound aid ship, which by the
early hours was just a few dozen miles from the blockaded Gaza strip.

The Cyprus-based Free Gaza group used micro-blogging website Twitter to
announce that troops from three three Israeli naval boats, which had been
tailing the ship, had boarded peacefully at 5:50 A.M. Israel time, with no
struggle or injuries.

The Reuters news agency also reported that the ship had been siezed - but
later said that activists on board had denied having any direct contact with
the Israeli navy, claiming at around at 6:30 A.M that they were still being
shadowed.

An Israeli military spokeswoman said she had no information. Israel had said
it would not let the ship through.

The activists' latest attempt to crack the blockade will test Israel's
resolve as it faces a wave of international outrage over its deadly takeover
of another aid ship earlier this week.

Diplomatic fallout and protests across Europe and the Muslim world have
increased pressure to end the embargo Israel imposed after the Islamic
militant Hamas group seized power in Gaza three years ago.

Shortly after 5 A.M. Israel time, Greta Berlin of the Free Gaza movement
that sent the 1,200-ton Rachel Corrie said the vessel was 35 miles from
Gaza's shores.

"There were two warships in the back of them ... and a smaller boat was
approaching," Berlin said from the movement's headquarters in Cyprus, citing
a passenger on board.

Activists on board the Irish boat, including a Nobel Peace Prize laureate,
insisted they would not resist if Israeli soldiers tried to take over their
vessel. They rejected an Israeli appeal to bring the ship to an Israeli port
instead.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told his Cabinet on Thursday the
Irish boat would not be allowed to reach Gaza. On Friday, Israel's foreign
minister said the policy had not changed.

"We have made it clear to the Irish and others, no ship will reach Gaza
without a security inspection," Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman told
Channel 1 TV.


But as Israel rejected just a weapons inspection this is clearly a lying Jew. Lieberman is perhaps Israel's best known racist and fascist.

The Cambodian-flagged Rachel Corrie - named for an American college student who was crushed to death by a bulldozer in 2003 while protesting Israeli
house demolitions in Gaza - was carrying hundreds of tons of aid, including
wheelchairs, medical supplies and cement.


As I previously said, she was murdreed as this report admits.

This latest attempt to breach the blockade differs significantly from the
flotilla the Israeli troops intercepted on Monday, killing eight Turks and
an American after being set upon by a group of activists.

Nearly 700 activists had joined that operation, most of them aboard the lead
boat from Turkey that was the scene of the violence. That boat, the Mavi
Marmara, was sponsored by an Islamic aid group from Turkey, the Foundation
for Human Rights and Freedom and Humanitarian Relief. Israel outlawed the
group, known by its Turkish acronym IHH, in 2008 because of alleged ties to
Hamas.

The group is not on the U.S. State Department list of terror organizations,
however.


Note carefully, NOT a terrorist organization according to the US. The terrorist claim is solely Israel's which considers all who do not love Zionists to be terrorists -- or something close to that.

By contrast, the Rachel Corrie was carrying just 11 passengers, whose effort was mainly sponsored by the Free Gaza movement, a Cyprus-based group that
has renounced violence.

Irish Nobel Peace Prize laureate Mairead Corrigan told The Associated Press
from the ship Friday that the group would offer no resistance if Israeli
forces came aboard.

"We will sit down," she said in a telephone interview. "They will probably
arrest us ... But there will be no resistance."

Netanyahu has instructed the Israeli military to avoid harming the
passengers on board the Irish boat, a participant at Thursday night's
Cabinet meeting said. He spoke on condition of anonymity because the meeting
was closed.

Foreign Ministry director Yossi Gal urged the activists to dock in the
southern Israeli port of Ashdod and promised to transfer all cargo except
any weapons or weapons components to Gaza. But the activists resisted the
appeal.

Israel has no desire to board the ship, Gal told reporters. If the ship
decides to sail to the port of Ashdod, then we will ensure its safe arrival
and will not board it.

Corrigan said the activists would not be diverted anywhere else. We head to
Gaza in order to deliver the humanitarian aid and to break the siege of
Gaza.

The former U.N. humanitarian coordinator in Iraq, Denis Halliday, said from
the ship that trade unions and government officials had inspected its cargo.


So on top of the Mossad's intimate knowledge that there are no weapons on board there is ample support rebuttal to any Israeli claim to the contrary. This must piss off the Izzies to no end.

So we are 100 percent confident that there is nothing that is offensive or dangerous, he told Israel's Channel 2 TV.

Still, he acknowledged that Israel might object to the 500 tons of cement on
board, which the army maintains the militants can use to fight it.


Apparently Hamas has a cement throwing catapult. Last I heard Catapults were outlawed by the SPCA but that is another story.

In Washington, the State Department said U.S. officials had been in touch
with multiple countries, including the Israeli and Irish governments, about
the latest effort.

Everyone wants to avoid a repetition of this tragic incident, spokesman P.J.
Crowley said.


Everyone but Israel as it has been offered and refused a weapons inspection at sea.

Later, National Security Council spokesman Mike Hammer said the Rachel
Corrie should sail to Ashdod in the interest of safety.

International condemnation continued Friday, with protests in Syria, Greece,
Mauritania, Bahrain and Malaysia, where some demonstrators burned Israeli
flags and carried mock coffins. In Norway, the military canceled a seminar
scheduled for later this month because an Israeli army officer was to have
lectured.

Israel claims activists ambushed the Israeli commandos as they rappelled on
board the Mavi Marmara from helicopters on Monday, and the military and
Turkish TV have released videotape showing soldiers under attack.

Returning activists admitted fighting with the Israeli commandos but
insisted they acted in self defense because the ships were being boarded in
international waters by a military force.


Repelling boarders is what we expect to happen.

On Friday, the Israeli military released what it said was an edited radio
exchange with the flotilla, captured from its own communications equipment,
in which unidentified male voices were heard making anti-Semitic and
anti-American comments. It was impossible to independently authenticate the
tape, which the military said pieced together segments of exchanges.

The Israeli Defense Forces have been criticized for seizing most video and
audio from the Mavi Marmara. The Foreign Press Association, which represents
hundreds of journalists in Israel and the Palestinian Territories, demanded
Thursday that the military stop using the captured material without
permission.

Meanwhile, Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh said the Islamic militants have
refused to accept any aid from the Israeli-intercepted flotilla. We are not
seeking to fill our (bellies), we are looking to break the Israeli siege on
Gaza, he said.


Again Hamas claims the moral high ground.

The standoff has particularly strained Israel's relationship with once-close ally Turkey.

Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan kept up the tough rhetoric on
Friday, telling a crowd that nobody should test Turkey's patience.

And Deputy Prime Minister Bulent Arinc announced Turkey was downsizing its
economic and defense cooperation with Israel.


And Turkey claims the moral high ground from the pathetic, whining Zionists. You have to love watching the Zionists slit their own throats while indulging their own self-righteousness.


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Message 1000864 - Posted: 5 Jun 2010, 9:13:06 UTC

The massacre is indefensible. It was in fact Exodus II. Here is the beginning of the end.

For non-Americans and unfortunately most Americans, Helen Thomas is the longest serving White House correspondent, aka reporter in a less prestigious assignment. She questioned Truman and I think FDR as a newbie. This woman literally walks on water as far as the White House is concerned.

She has turned against Israel and said the obvious. Go back where you came from. If you will it, it is not a dream.

Haaretz

http://www.haaretz.com/news/international/jews-should-leave-palestine-and-return-to-europe-top-u-s-journalist-says-1.294284

* Published 11:35 05.06.10
* Latest update 11:35 05.06.10

Jews should leave Palestine and return to Europe, top U.S. journalist says

White House reporter Helen Thomas also slams Obama administration for not
condemning 'deliberate Gaza flotilla massacre.'

By Natasha Mozgovaya

Israeli Jews should get out of Palestine and go back "home," to Germany and
Poland, senior White House Press Corps member Helen Thomas was taped as
saying earlier this week, bringing calls for her resignation by Jewish
organization B'nai B'rith.

In a recently uploaded Youtube video, Thomas can be heard saying that Israel
"should get the hell out of Palestine," adding that the land was
Palestinian, "not German, it's not Polish."

When asked where then the Jews should go, the senior White House
correspondent said they should "Go home…. To Poland, Germany ... and
America and everywhere else."

"Thomas’ comments are contemptible, "B’nai B’rith International President
Dennis W. Glick said in a statement, adding that Thomas's "distortion of
historical reality is astonishing. Her call for Jews to return to Poland
and Germany—site of the Nazi genocide, the worst genocide in modern
history -- is beyond offensive."

Glick added that he felt "Thomas seems to have been schooled by Iranian
President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in a belief that Jews appeared in Israel after
the Holocaust," while ignoring "historical facts that Jews have called the
Land of Israel home for more than 3,000 years, long before any other group
made a home in the land."

"These vile comments, unfortunately, are the culmination of Thomas' ongoing
anti-Israel sentiments that she kept thinly veiled over the years," B’nai
B’rith International Executive Vice President Daniel S. Mariaschin said.

"There should be no place for her in a news organization. Her comments go
beyond commentary and land well in the camp that will stop at nothing to
delegitimize Israel."

Last week, during a briefing with White House spokesman Robert Gibbs,
Thomas' criticized the American reaction to the deadly Israeli raid of a
humanitarian aid convoy, saying that "our initial reaction to this flotilla
massacre, deliberate massacre, an international crime, was pitiful."

"What do you mean you regret when something should be so strongly condemned?
And if any other nation in the world had done it, we would have been up in
arms. What is this sacrosanct, iron-clad relationship, where a country that
deliberately kills people," Thomas had said.


So here we have a test. Will an American be censured because Jews do not like what she has said? Will people spouting religious superstition rule? Will this cover mention of the massacre? Stay tuned to the exciting, on-going story of the vilification of the most respected journalist in the US. Who will win? Will she retract and show their power over her?

Unvarnished
Haaretz
Jerusalem Post
The origin of the Yahweh Cult
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Message 1000870 - Posted: 5 Jun 2010, 9:44:51 UTC

Israel to defend itself against an aid ship!! The Rachel Corrie apparently set to attack Israel by docking in Gaza.

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-world/israel-threatens-to-board-gazabound-aid-ship-20100605-xllg.html

"Our soldiers will board you if you refuse to change course... We are ready to use force to defend ourselves," spokeswoman Avital Leibovitz told the BBC, quoting the message relayed to the vessel.

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Message boards : Politics : The Massacre of the Gaza Aid Flotilla


 
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