The Massacre of the Gaza Aid Flotilla

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Message 1000463 - Posted: 3 Jun 2010, 23:51:52 UTC - in response to Message 1000445.  
Last modified: 4 Jun 2010, 0:07:44 UTC

Formed by "international consensus"? What about the bombing of the St Davids Hotel? An 'accident' involving people who've been senior politicians in Israel for decades, perhaps? Illegal use of arms to murder and maim innocent civilians.... please explain how Israel has NOT done this. How about 'ethnic cleansing' as per Israeli bull-dozers? Paint-ball guns? Over the years, the Soviets made some very odd looking and very effective weapons; Israel does have quite a large armaments industry. There is also, the deliberate killing of a UK citizen, some years ago, from Devon, who was trying to protect children. There is a rather high incidence of children killed by Israeli forces. Just how many 'wrongs' does it take, before you will admit that Israeli 'policy' is wrong? I dread to think how many it would take, before the Israeli 'government' admitted that!

I never said, and I hope I did not imply that Israel is completely innocent of any wrongdoing, . . . ever, . . . going back to Abraham. My comments here have to do with this situation and the Israeli right to secure the safety of their citizens. In this situation the blockade is justifiable (and working) and the "humanitarians" who tried to run it did so for purely political reasons, i.e. to get a reaction from Israel that would bring condemnation from anti-Israeli voices.

It is interesting that your argument is focused on the last 60+ years of Israeli history and the things done by Israeli terrorists (yes, they were), with no acknowledgement at all of the actions of their neighbors and terrorists who have sworn to end the Israeli state. But if we are going to count government "wrongs", why not start with UK history going back to the crusades, use of chemical warfare in WWI and firebombing German cities in WWII, just to name some highlights. By your standard, no country is legitimate; no country can defend themselves because, for example, they treated native people badly. Please focus on this situation, unless you are advocating the overthrow of your own government first.

[Edit]: Yes, the modern State of Israel was formed by international consensus. That does not imply that all actions by Israel are done with that same backing.
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Message 1000468 - Posted: 4 Jun 2010, 0:05:22 UTC - in response to Message 1000460.  
Last modified: 4 Jun 2010, 0:16:17 UTC

Fayvitt, your question angers me. Criminals who use weapons to do their crimes forfeit their right to bear arms. Hamas in Gaza is not being allowed to import arms that they would fire at Israel. They have done this in the past, over and over again, and the current Israeli response is a blockade. To be effective at finding arms, a blockade has to check all goods, even what are claimed to be "humanitarian" shipments (even you should understand that illegal weapons can be hidden in "humanitarian" cargo).

The blockade works. Rocket attacks from Gaza are way down. The alternative to the blockade is sending in military forces to destroy the arms, which was done in the past and caused casualties to both the Israelis and the Palistinians.

Unlike you, I am not angered at your post. I am rather confused. I am confused as to how you can possibly confound this group of people with criminals and gun runners. Are crutches lethal weapons? The wheelchairs did not appear to be armored. So far Israel has made no claim there were any weapons at all.

You have ignored my post where I said, "To be effective at finding arms, a blockade has to check all goods, even what are claimed to be "humanitarian" shipments (even you should understand that illegal weapons can be hidden in "humanitarian" cargo)."

Israelis may be so abysmally retarded that they cannot tell the difference between these people and gunrunners but certainly we can tell the difference can we not?.

Of course they can tell the difference, and they offered to do just that by having the flotilla enter port and be inspected. The "humanitarians" refused and brought this on themselves, just as they wanted.

But as in the Cuban Missile Crisis inspections can be conducted at sea. As to entering Gaza, the Israeli dead were own goals. The 1200 Palestinians for 1 Israeli was an atrocity in the same vein as 1200 Poles being killed in reprisal for the assassination of General Heydrich.

Not sure what language you are trying for here, certainly not English, but your analogy is not on point. This thread is about the Israeli bolckade to prevent offensive weapons from reaching known terrorists who have demonstrated that they will use such weapons to attack Israeli citizens. Or are you saying the Israelis should go back to entering Gaza to make house to house searches instead of this blockade? Would you rather see another bloody raid?
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Message 1000471 - Posted: 4 Jun 2010, 0:09:27 UTC - in response to Message 1000403.  

You have left out some important facts, obviously because if you acknowledge the full history of the region it would show you to be the biased fool that you are. Israel was formed by international consensus after World War II


If one dares pretend to give history lessons then one should in fact discuss real history. Let me remind you in Israel and it anathema to suggest WWII had anything to do with the founding of Israel. In fact they are correct. Ever since the 1920s the Jews went to Palestine with the explicit intent to kill or expel the Palestinians. As to the UN it offered the Jews a chance to form a government on condition that the rights of the Palestinians not be harmed -- rights such as property rights as in land ownership. Needless to say ownership was not the UN's to give.

Without needing to put it to a test, should the UN take away what you would claim they gave we can be assured the Jews will not pack up and go back where they came from. The UN only has authority when it comes to one minor aspect of its deceitful discourse.

and for more than 5 decades it has been attacked by its neighbors.


In 1948 several countries in the middle east rallied to try to prevent the expulsion and slaughter of the Palestinians. This has been documented by Israeli historians using Israeli government records.

In 1956 Israel attacked Egypt without cause or provocation.

In 1967 Israel again attacked Egypt as well as Jordan and Syria. The gratuitous attack on Syria was confirmed by Moshe Dayan.

In 1973 Israel was legitimately attacked by others without it starting the conflict. It had to run to Nixon to get a cease fire.

There was also the invasion of Lebanon to attack the PLO solely because one of its ambassadors was killed in London by a group that had nothing to do with the PLO. This included the well known massacres in two refugee camps for which an Israeli inquiry held Ariel Sharon personally responsible.

In 2006 after the capture of four Israelis inside Lebanon Israel attacked Lebanon again. It gave three decreasingly important objectives as it reason and accomplished none of them.

In 2008 Israel attacked Lebanon over the death of one Israeli in a period of time in which Israel killed over one thousand Palestinians. Hamas did cause and maintain a ceasefire on condition Israel stop killing people in Gaza. In November Israel entered Gaza and killed people. The rockets resumed. Israel attacked because of the rockets. Clearly Israel broke the truce.

But that is irrelevant to the situation at hand. This blockade is meant to prevent the murder of Israeli citizens by illegal rocket attacks fired from Gaza. Israel has the right to defend itself, no matter how irrational your sympathies toward the Hamas terrorists.


Only an Israeli could be retarded enough to confuse these people with gun runners.

My post that upset your poor sensitive brain was correct. Your post that countries should have the right to arm themselves is nullified by the illegal use of those arms to murder and maim innocent civilians.

<Plonk>


I am still waiting for a connection between these ship and gun running.

Hamas is getting weapons to defend itself so Israel can murder 8 Turks and 1 American does not make much sense. I guess one has to be a mindless Israeli to see the justification.

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Message 1000475 - Posted: 4 Jun 2010, 0:25:12 UTC

I am going to change the tone of this thread. From the U.N. Charter of the United Nations. Look at Article 51 at the very bottom of the document.
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Message 1000478 - Posted: 4 Jun 2010, 0:36:20 UTC

Mr Qui. I'll quote, yet again.

U.N. Human Rights Chief: Israel's Blockade of Gaza Strip Is Illegal

What part of this is not understood?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,539363,00.html



Israel formed by international concecus? How about Israel breaching international law? That gives them the right to, well.... obey it!!

Does that answer your question sufficently?
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Message 1000480 - Posted: 4 Jun 2010, 0:44:22 UTC - in response to Message 1000475.  
Last modified: 4 Jun 2010, 0:48:04 UTC

I am going to change the tone of this thread. From the U.N. Charter of the United Nations. Look at Article 51 at the very bottom of the document.


Dena, whenever the Security Council has met and voted on either peacekeepers for..,sanctions against..., armed intervention against.... the United States of America vetoes its ass every time.

That's why the Security Council has no teeth. The US vetoes any and every proposal that in any way is aimed at Israel.

Edit: Anything Israel does, is with impunity. They are answerable to no one, in the end. They refuse to allow their citizens to be tried in any court of law outside of Israel for any crimes committed against Palestinians. They seem to believe International law does not apply to them.
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Message 1000486 - Posted: 4 Jun 2010, 1:13:50 UTC - in response to Message 1000475.  

I am going to change the tone of this thread. From the U.N. Charter of the United Nations. Look at Article 51 at the very bottom of the document.


Are you saying the people on the freedom flotilla were attacking Israel?

Looks to me like Israel went out of its way looking for a fight and got pissed at the temerity of people to attempt to repel boarders.

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Message 1000492 - Posted: 4 Jun 2010, 1:52:27 UTC - in response to Message 1000486.  
Last modified: 4 Jun 2010, 1:55:51 UTC

I am going to change the tone of this thread. From the U.N. Charter of the United Nations. Look at Article 51 at the very bottom of the document.


Are you saying the people on the freedom flotilla were attacking Israel?

Looks to me like Israel went out of its way looking for a fight and got pissed at the temerity of people to attempt to repel boarders.

Gasa declares war against Israel every time it sets off a rocket. Seeing that the U.N. has decided not to do anything about it, Israel has a right to defend it's self. This is a dangerous game because Israel could launch a full scale attack and turn Gasa to rubble. It could also sit back and send a few suspected Nuclear weapons Gasa's way. They are showing a good deal of restraint with a blockade that only stops weapons from reaching Gasa instead of turning or sinking all ships that attempt to run the blockade. They make sure that all non-weapon deliveries reach Gasa and I suspect they may even contribute some stuff as well. The Freedom Flotilla is that in name only. a better name would be the "Freedom to Destroy Israel Flotilla" because if Israel stops the blockade, that is what will happen. The only freedom Israel is preventing is the freedom to engage in war. Isn't that a good thing?

Because the Freedom Flotilla decided to enter a war zone, they are no longer neutral, They are now an active participant, especially after they started swinging pipes at paint gun armed solders. They knew Israel would be the last one to fire because Israel has shown a good deal of restraint in the past and is considered weak because of this. If you look at history, Israel tends to be the defender and not the aggressor. They have also been giving up land to maintain the peace and that also makes them look weak. Israel is not aggressive but they have many neighbors who are or who were in the past.

If they had approached from Egypt's side they would have been subject to the same inspection and Egypt would not have allowed them to pass without an inspection. Gasa has not sent weapons in the direction of Egypt but Egypt is still inspecting ships. If Israel is wrong, then you must also call Egypt wrong as well.

In closing isn't 6 or 7 million Jews enough? I think one was far to many!
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Message 1000495 - Posted: 4 Jun 2010, 2:07:13 UTC

I agree wholeheartedly Dena, 6-7..Hell, why not 67 million. I think 1 too many also. There's always 1 too many Israeli's in Palestine.
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Message 1000498 - Posted: 4 Jun 2010, 2:19:20 UTC - in response to Message 1000492.  
Last modified: 4 Jun 2010, 2:30:43 UTC

Matt_Giwer
Except that the reports are of head shots. NBC reported the American who was murdered had four bullets in the head and one in the chest. Clearly they were not shooting at anyone's feet.

While some may consider these folks to have the sharpshooting powers of Roy Rogers and Gene Autrey, this does not suggest either handguns or hurried shooting. The multiple head shots indicates the charming Jewish custom of confirming the kill -- a few extra shots to make sure they are dead.

Never heard about this report yet. If it's true (journalists can do anything), yes it certanly looks like cold-blood murder with control shots.

Need to see video. Youtube is full with video what happend before the shooting - it's awful, but not exact shooting. Maybe IDF don't have enough rapid Adobe Premiere of Final Cut specialist.

But before you contunue to put shame at IDF's head, i ask you to think about one thing. Israel not only "zionist goverment that rules the planet" but also a buffer (barrier) country. If Israel dissapear (i'm almost sure that this will happen in nearest decade), our Checnya will be a heaven compare to _what_ will start in all the world around.

And about 'hamas that fights evil Israel'
That 'innocent hamas' last time was hiding at the hospitals, kindergarden etc. and shoot from there to produce as much innocent victums as possible. In fact they was holding it's own people as hostages. Why? To be the victum. To make you think that they're all in white and all this crap. And i'll say - they won this information war.
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Message 1000503 - Posted: 4 Jun 2010, 2:32:06 UTC

But before you contunue to put shame at IDF's head, i ask you to think about one thing. Israel not only "zionist goverment that rules the planet" but also a buffer (barrier) country. If Israel dissapear (i'm almost sure that this will happen in nearest decade), our Checnya will be a heaven compare to _what_ will start in all the world around.


If Israel were to disappear, the middle east would be at peace. Yes, they'd have had the odd skirmish. But we'd have no Iraq war, No Afghanistan, No posturing against Iran. There'd be no need for terrorist organizations who despise Israel and the US, would there? Interfering in mid east affairs is what started it all.

The Palestinians have a right to defend themselves, THEIR land, THEIR houses, THEIR children. Not have it/them seized, bulldozed, shot. Illegaly.

Israel disappear in the next 10 years? One could only hope!! The US would be unburdened, and the mid east could get back to being the mid east.
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Message 1000509 - Posted: 4 Jun 2010, 2:51:53 UTC

http://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/109222/kiwi-aid-worker-saw-activist-shot-head

1 shot in the head, another in the back.

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/52811

Forensic report states, shot 4 times in head at close range, once in the chest.

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/Media/american-killed-gaza-aid-flotilla/story?id=10814848

Forensic report states, shot 4 times in head at close range, once in the chest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_flotilla_raid

The vast majority of the cargo (8000 of the 10,000 tons) is thought to have been withheld by Israeli authorities and not offered Gaza.

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Message 1000513 - Posted: 4 Jun 2010, 3:03:39 UTC - in response to Message 1000492.  

Gasa declares war against Israel every time it sets off a rocket.


Israel declares war on Palestine every day by ILLEGAL act of occupation.
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Message 1000516 - Posted: 4 Jun 2010, 3:07:22 UTC

Are you going to kill the Christians and Arabs living in Israel along with the Jews?

Also, if the Jews are so evil, explain the Dome of the Rock. You have a Muslim Holy place constructed on the Temple Mound which is the most holy location in the Jewish and Christian religion. The construction of the new temple will take place on that location but to date the Jewish people have resisted all temptation to destroy or take over that location instead leaving that task to God.

On the other hand, in Iraq the Muslim were blowing up each others mosque. I would feel much safer around a Jew than a Muslim.
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Message 1000518 - Posted: 4 Jun 2010, 3:10:00 UTC - in response to Message 1000513.  

Gasa declares war against Israel every time it sets off a rocket.


Israel declares war on Palestine every day by ILLEGAL act of occupation.

Every time they give up land, the rocket launcher just get moved closer. If they would stop launching rockets, they would get their land back.

Have you never heard of the concept of a buffer zone? It was very popular in the cold war.
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Message 1000521 - Posted: 4 Jun 2010, 3:19:36 UTC - in response to Message 1000492.  

I am going to change the tone of this thread. From the U.N. Charter of the United Nations. Look at Article 51 at the very bottom of the document.


Are you saying the people on the freedom flotilla were attacking Israel?

Looks to me like Israel went out of its way looking for a fight and got pissed at the temerity of people to attempt to repel boarders.


Gasa declares war against Israel every time it sets off a rocket.


And that can be seen as a response to the blockade which is also an act of war. When the izzie squatters were finally removed from Gaza the blockade remained in place without any action by Palestinians precipitating it. And we must grant the Palestinians had just grievances against the Jews for their decades of squatting in Gaza and dispossession of the owners. Additionally about a million of those who live in Gaza were driven from their homes and land in Israel. With tongue firmly in cheek, what problem is there with Palestinians firing rockets at their own property? What are criminal Jews doing living on stolen land?

When there are no legal paths to redress deadly force is moral.

All that aside, you can read any history of Zionism and learn the Zionists started all the problems and are proud of it. They had to expel or kill the Palestinians else the first election would have shitcanned the entire Zionist enterprise -- enterprise being a Zionist term used in Israeli newspapers.

If we go back to the beginning with Herzl and through Jabotinski and his fellow terrorists and murderers who founded Israel we find the fault is all their own and all of this is happening to them by their own free choice. No one forced them to live there. No one is forcing them to stay.

The constant whining is pathetic.

Seeing that the U.N. has decided not to do anything about it, Israel has a right to defend it's self.]/quote]

The UN did do something about it when it made Israel's membership in the UN conditional upon the return of the Palestinians to their homes and property. The fault of the UN is not enforcing that provision.

Given its own history of which the Zionists are proud then are fighting to keep the property they stole. Fine with me but lets describe it as it is.

[quote]This is a dangerous game because Israel could launch a full scale attack and turn Gasa to rubble.


Again? They failed miserably last time. And then the demand for free access to Gaza would be even greater.

It could also sit back and send a few suspected Nuclear weapons Gasa's way.


Which would lead to the disappearance of the members of the Mosaic confession from the world. Jews outside of Israel would be falling all over themselves to make the strongest condemnation of Israel for doing that.

If you wish to post options which Israel has you should not post absurd ones.

They are showing a good deal of restraint with a blockade that only stops weapons from reaching Gasa instead of turning or sinking all ships that attempt to run the blockade.


As you are discussing the subject I will assume you know the subject. Thus I ask why you are deliberately misrepresenting the blockade? You know it bans foods by both type and quantity. It also bans some spices such as coriander and you know it. You know only enough fuel is permitted in to run the power plant about 16 hours a day. You know so much more is banned by this blockade. WHY are you falsely saying it only bans weapons?

If you want to discuss this matter with me you could at least be an honest participant.

As for sinking ships it tried that by ramming one ship last summer. The captain said it almost did breach the hull. But you know that too.

They make sure that all non-weapon deliveries reach Gasa and I suspect they may even contribute some stuff as well. The Freedom Flotilla is that in name only. a better name would be the "Freedom to Destroy Israel Flotilla" because if Israel stops the blockade, that is what will happen. The only freedom Israel is preventing is the freedom to engage in war. Isn't that a good thing?


More dishonesty in the discussion. So tell me in your great wisdom, how do crutches and wheelchair destroy Israel? Please tell me. I really want to know.

The proximate event relating to Gaza which is reasonably considered the precipitating event is the blockade. The blockade has been in place since 1967 in some form or other. A blockade is an act of war. Further Israel has not declared a naval exclusion zone around Gaza so there is no official blockade and therefore there is no legal foundation for any action against any ship in international waters.

You opened your participation with a citation from the UN charter regarding war. I expect you to be conversant in the subject and applicable treaties such as the Hague treaty on Naval Warfare. If you are unprepared to engage in a discussion of facts and the applicable law and if you are unprepared to present the facts as they are why do you bother posting?

Because the Freedom Flotilla decided to enter a war zone, they are no longer neutral,


As noted Israel has not declared a war zone. Therefore there is no basis for dealing with the Freedom Flotilla based upon entering a war zone.

They are now an active participant, especially after they started swinging pipes at paint gun armed solders.


Having dispelled the nonsense of a declared war zone existing, the issue is only the response to boarders. A captain can always request assistance from the passengers in repelling boarders. Back in the good old days a British captain could order able-bodied men to assist. So the only question here is the actions of the captain. If the passengers acted without the authority of the captain then their actions fall under the maritime law of Turkey. So do the actions of the Israeli troops. Turkey can lawfully request the extradition of all concerned for trial in Turkey. Israel can refuse by declaring it to have been a sovereign act of war.

They knew Israel would be the last one to fire because Israel has shown a good deal of restraint in the past and is considered weak because of this.


At the same time Israel knew it could conduct an inspection at sea. Israel also knew there was no reasonable expectation of blockaded weapons on these ships. Remember the ships were loaded in broad daylight with media coverage encouraged in countries where people cannot buy a few cases of rifles or grenades. And as Israel knows what is going on under the strictest military secrecy hundreds of feet underground in Iran there is no possible excuse for not knowing there were no weapons on these ships.

Therefore it was simply an unnecessary show of force to get some income for Israeli trucking companies.

If you look at history, Israel tends to be the defender and not the aggressor. They have also been giving up land to maintain the peace and that also makes them look weak. Israel is not aggressive but they have many neighbors who are or who were in the past.


In another post I list Israel's wars with only the 1973 war as the one it did not start. You are free to critique the list. It would be a waste of space to cut and paste it into this post.

Israel has given up no land that any country recognized as part of Israel. Gaza is not recognized as part of Israel and I have a statement by the Attorney General of Israel stating it is military occupation even though the criminal squatters are gone. There is also occupied Syria, occupied Jerusalem and the occupied West Bank. All of those are being settled by Israelis. When the Nazis settled Germans in Poland Nuremberg declared it a hanging offense. The penalty for the squatters was mass deportation with the clothes on their backs and a little revenge along the way.

If they had approached from Egypt's side they would have been subject to the same inspection and Egypt would not have allowed them to pass without an inspection.


I have never in my life even suggested Israel was any better than Egypt. You must have me confused with someone else.

Gasa has not sent weapons in the direction of Egypt but Egypt is still inspecting ships. If Israel is wrong, then you must also call Egypt wrong as well.


Not a dime's worth of difference between them, I agree with you on that.

In closing isn't 6 or 7 million Jews enough? I think one was far to many!


Religions undergo extinction events. Who mourns Adonis? One religion more or less and no one would notice. All religions would vanish if I were God -- what kind of a god wants to be worshipped? -- demented if you ask me. Besides it has outlived its time. These days we only find ritual/taboo genital mutilating cults in primitive Africa.

For the life of me I don't see all the concern about this one religion when we have actively eliminated so many others similarly primitive.

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Message 1000523 - Posted: 4 Jun 2010, 3:29:02 UTC - in response to Message 1000498.  

Matt_Giwer
Except that the reports are of head shots. NBC reported the American who was murdered had four bullets in the head and one in the chest. Clearly they were not shooting at anyone's feet.

While some may consider these folks to have the sharpshooting powers of Roy Rogers and Gene Autrey, this does not suggest either handguns or hurried shooting. The multiple head shots indicates the charming Jewish custom of confirming the kill -- a few extra shots to make sure they are dead.

Never heard about this report yet. If it's true (journalists can do anything), yes it certanly looks like cold-blood murder with control shots.

Need to see video. Youtube is full with video what happend before the shooting - it's awful, but not exact shooting. Maybe IDF don't have enough rapid Adobe Premiere of Final Cut specialist.


I've seen the youtube stuff. All they show are the passengers attempting to repell boarders. Izzies confiscated cameras from their victims so we are sort of left with Turk autopsies on the manner and cause of death.

But before you contunue to put shame at IDF's head, i ask you to think about one thing. Israel not only "zionist goverment that rules the planet" but also a buffer (barrier) country. If Israel dissapear (i'm almost sure that this will happen in nearest decade), our Checnya will be a heaven compare to _what_ will start in all the world around.


Israel is a "barrier" to what? Jordanians marching into the sea? As Israel keeps telling us, it is all it can do to protect its own survival. It is certainly not doing anything else for anyone. What are you trying to say?

And about 'hamas that fights evil Israel' That 'innocent hamas' last time was hiding at the hospitals, kindergarden etc. and shoot from there to produce as much innocent victums as possible.


You know this for a fact or did you hear it from the impartial Izzies? As you know they never met a non-Jew they didn't like.

In fact they was holding it's own people as hostages. Why? To be the victum. To make you think that they're all in white and all this crap. And i'll say - they won this information war.


Trust me when I tell you this. I have never, NEVER said Israel was any better than Hamas. You have no need to compare them for me.

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Message 1000527 - Posted: 4 Jun 2010, 3:42:35 UTC - in response to Message 1000516.  

Are you going to kill the Christians and Arabs living in Israel along with the Jews?

Also, if the Jews are so evil, explain the Dome of the Rock. You have a Muslim Holy place constructed on the Temple Mound which is the most holy location in the Jewish and Christian religion.


Where are you getting this crap. The idea the temple was on this so-called "temple mount" first appeared in history in the late 19th c. We know when that nonsense started. Another equally baseless tradition says the Church of the Holy Sepulchre was built on the site. Josephus clearly states the temple was in the lower level of the city. No one knows exactly where it was but we certainly know where it was not and it was not on that "temple mount."

The construction of the new temple will take place on that location but to date the Jewish people have resisted all temptation to destroy or take over that location instead leaving that task to God.


That crackpots could and would do such a thing is sufficient reason to eliminate all religions as to dangerous for humans.

But what is even more interesting is they also intend to revive primitive animal sacrifice exactly as it is described in the Septuagint stories. Consider this grand temple surrounded by pens of animals, the stench of a slaughter house and burning flesh in the air day and night for the greater glory of the Yahweh cult priests. Genital mutilating primitives they.

On the other hand, in Iraq the Muslim were blowing up each others mosque. I would feel much safer around a Jew than a Muslim.


Obviously you have never been on a Freedom Flotilla.

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Message 1000529 - Posted: 4 Jun 2010, 3:46:15 UTC - in response to Message 1000204.  

The Cuban blockade was designed to prevent weapons from getting to Cuba. The United States had the right in international waters to stop and inspect any ship for weapons (nuclear or not) that was headed to Cuba. If American Marines or sailors had been attacked in the process they would've had the right to defend themselves with deadly force.




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Could you please cite the international regulations that back up your position that the US had the right to stop and inspect ships bound for Cuba in international waters?

I know America feels it is permitted to unilaterally do whatever it wants, but just once, could you show why it was legal in international waters?

I also feel Americans need to understand that the fear they felt about nuclear missles being positioned against them so close to home was the same fear they placed on the USSR by surrounding that country with nuclear missles.

I know, I know, it was ok because you were the good guys, right?
I do not fight fascists because I think I can win.
I fight them because they are fascists.
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A riot is the language of the unheard. -Martin Luther King, Jr.
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Message 1000532 - Posted: 4 Jun 2010, 3:53:49 UTC - in response to Message 1000518.  

Gasa declares war against Israel every time it sets off a rocket.


Israel declares war on Palestine every day by ILLEGAL act of occupation.


Every time they give up land, the rocket launcher just get moved closer. If they would stop launching rockets, they would get their land back.


Israel has given up land exactly once. That was the Sinai. No rockets followed. Peace followed. Diplomatic relations followed. Do you ever intend to ground your posts in facts?

No rockets and get their land back, bullshit. No rockets have come from Syria yet Israel refuses to discuss ending its occupation of the Syrian Heights. No rockets have come from occupied Jerusalem yet Israel has not reversed its illegal annexation of it. The West Bank has never fired a rocket yet it is still under military occupation.

Could you please start including factual content in your posts?

Have you never heard of the concept of a buffer zone? It was very popular in the cold war.


I must also question your grasp of geography. Gaza is a buffer between Israel and what other country? Please be specific in your response. Israel borders Egypt. That is not what a buffer state means.

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