In connection with the summary executions indicated by the autopsies now comes an allegation of an Israeli hit list. Take it for what it is worth.

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0605/israeli-raiders-assassination-list/

Activists: Israeli boat raiders had ‘assassination list’

By Daniel Tencer

Saturday, June 5th, 2010 -- 9:15 pm

gazaaidflotilla Activists: Israeli boat raiders had assassination list

Dem lawmaker: Prosecute US members of Gaza flotilla

Passengers aboard the Mavi Marmara, the ship raided by Israel Monday, claim
they found what they say is a list of people the Israeli military intended
to target during their raid, a news report out of Great Britain states.

In an interview with the UK's Independent on Sunday, Al Jazeera reporter
Jamal Elshayyal said passengers who rummaged through Israeli solders'
belongings during the raid found a list of names, accompanied with pictures,
of people aboard the flotilla that aimed to break Israel's blockade of Gaza.

The Independent's Catrina Stewart reports:

[T]he protesters rummaged through captured soldiers' belongings and claimed
to unearth a document that they allege is a list of people Israel intended
to assassinate. The booklet, written in Hebrew and in English, contained
some photographs of passengers on the Marmara, including the leader of IHH,
the Turkish charity that provided two of the ships, an 88-year-old priest
and Ra'ad Salah, head of the Northern Branch of the Islamic Movement in
Israel, Mr Elshayyal said.

A military spokesman, Lt Col Avital Leibowitz, insisted soldiers acted in
self-defense and that she "was not aware" of any list.

The allegations appear to directly contradict the Israeli government's claim
that its Marines arrived aboard the Mavi Marmara unprepared for violence,
and were taken by surprise by angry activists. The passengers' claim of an
"assassination list" has not been corroborated.

The Israeli government's claims that the Gaza flotilla had links to al Qaeda
and Hamas stem largely from the involvement of IHH, a Turkey-based Islamic
charity organization that operates in many countries in the Muslim world.

Israel has accused the group of having links to terrorist organizations, and
the group has been banned in Israel since 2008. The US does not list IHH as
a terrorist organization.

The Independent's Stewart suggests that a recent autopsy report -- showing
that the flotilla members killed in the raid were shot repeatedly and at
close range -- strengthens the argument that they may have been targeted for
assassination.

An autopsy report from the Turkish council of forensic medicine, obtained by
the UK's Guardian Friday, showed that the nine dead had been shot a total of
30 times, "many fired at close range."

According to the autopsy report, US citizen Fulkan Dogan was shot five times
from less than three feet away. Dogan, a 19-year-old native of Troy, NY, was
a dual US and Turkish citizen who was living in Turkey at the time of his
death.

Another person killed in the raid was a "journalist taking photos," the
Independent reports, quoting passenger Hassan Ghani, who said the person
"was shot ... between the eyebrows, which indicates that it was not an
attack that took place from self-defense."

DEMOCRATIC HOUSE REP: JAIL US CITIZENS WHO WERE PART OF FLOTILLA

A Democratic member of the US House of Representatives says he wants to see
US citizens aboard the Gaza flotilla prosecuted for providing aid to
terrorists.

In a conference call organized by The Israel Project, Rep. Brad Sherman
(D-CA) told reporters that activists participating in the flotilla were
aiding Hamas and therefore breaking US law.

“The Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996 makes it
absolutely illegal for any American to give food, money, school supplies,
paper clips, concrete or weapons to Hamas or any of its officials,” Sherman
said, as quoted at Jim Lobe's foreign policy blog. "And so I will be asking
the Attorney General to prosecute any American involved in what was clearly
an effort to give items of value to a terrorist organization.”

TalkingPointsMemo's M.J. Rosenberg, a frequent writer on Middle East issues,
describes Sherman as "the most pro-Likud Democratic member of Congress,"
referring to Israel's most prominent conservative political party. "But
this is crazy even for Sherman."

Sherman's declaration has taken heat from conservative commentators as well.
Writing at The American Conservative, Kelley Vlahos declares that "the
overall reaction to the abuse of our citizens has been strangely muted and
flaccid — whether at the White House, Capitol Hill or in the corporate
media."

Writes Vlahos: "Instead of demanding an accounting — you know, like Turkey
is doing for its own citizens — we have elected leaders trying to put
Americans on that flotilla in jail."
[/url]

---

Unvarnished
Haaretz
Jerusalem Post
The origin of the Yahweh Cult

Activists: Israeli boat raiders had ‘assassination list’

No, this is bullshit. It's too tricky. Much more simplier to assasinate them before or later on a land. No any noise.

But you are confirming it was a war crime which is the only point. War crimes are war crimes. The penalty for atrocities against civilians was found to be death by hanging at Nuremberg.

Nurenberg is a hypocrisy cynic process of winners. It is means nothing - US clearly show it later in Vietnam. If there's were no Nuremberhg there's gotta to be Moscow or London or New York process with same results, but on other side.

I agree Nuremberg was victor's justice however it is legal precedent. Further the things found to be crimes at Nuremberg became the basis for the Geneva Conventions which most countries including Israel have signed. Israel chose to be bound by the Geneva Conventions. There is no provision for exceptions if one disagrees with the consequences of signing.

Certainly a well stated brag but fact is the communist murderers were expelled from Afghanistan by the Afghanis.

There's no such fact. We left because country started to collapse (thanks to Gorbachev) and this does not apply to Afghan at all. That was still Stalin's army developed to win against anyone, even Martians. Afghan - a small drop of oil and iron in the ocean.

You write like an unrepentant Stalinist. If one could reason with Zionists there would be no Zionists. Same goes for Stalinists.

There is no defense for Bush's war on Afghanistan I have said that since before the idiot invaded. But I can also trace the threat of invasion and the start of the war planning to six months before 9/11 so it was apparently related to something else.

It applied to narcotraffic that's stopped when Taliban came to power. Now you there, all ok - harvest of opium and all this shit doubled twice than before.

By the way, to stop invasion of narcotraffic to USSR was the second main target of ours in the war.

I can't argue with that. Without drug money the CIA would have to survive on only its official government funding. But don't feel singled out. There is good evidence it also imports drugs into the US.

The US has had a deal with Saudi since the 1930s to keep it in power in return for oil. But in fact the US gets only some 20% of its oil from the middle east so I still don't see your point.

US was selling oil and iron to nazi's Germany while was at war with it, so i see no anything strange. War is a just big-profit bloody bisuness, nothing else.

I am aware of quite a lot of crap going on during WWII but I am unaware the US was doing that after December 11, 1941. Do you have the details?

Israel is important only to itself and then only to the jewish Israelis who benefit from Apartheid.

By the way, science is very strong there
You probably using now computer developed there
(Pentium M and Core duo in all cases)

In the good old days I used to chase down such outrageous claims

'As the M line was originally designed in Israel, the first Pentium M was identified by the codename Banias, named after an ancient site in the Golan Heights. Given the product code 80535, it initially had no model number suffix, but was later identified as the Pentium M 705. It was manufactured on a 130 nm process, was released at frequencies from 900 MHz to 1.7 GHz using a 400 MT/s FSB, and had 1 megabyte (MB) of Level 2 cache. The core average TDP (Thermal Design Power) is 24.5 watts.'
'Intel launched its improved Pentium M, formerly known as Dothan, named after another ancient town in Israel, on May 10, 2004.'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_M

That is the sort of trivia I always found when a nonsense claim was made. What does the name have to do with who developed it? There is also a couple Dothans in the US? Can you source the claim that it is related to the one in Israel? Do you have anything better? By better I mean an Intel source not some anonymous source like wikipedia.

Blood and atrocities are distinctly different things in this context. People are always fighting over things of value. Gratuitous massacres are a different thing.

Absolutely the same. Dead people have no interest, was they judged and executed or just did get into the massacre and killed. The end for them is one.
For you is not the same, yes. Because you're alive.

Why are you posting? You are describing murder. We agree it was murder. Multiple related murders are correctly described as massacres.

Have you no eyes? There was clearly a massacre. The only issue here is whether or not the people who perpetrated it did so in a manner which holds them safe from international prosecution.

No comments. but i'm not agree.

You just agreed in describing an extra-judicial killing without charges or trial. That is murder. QED

Israel has often stated it is not at war with Gaza.

So what? Blockade does not meas war.

SWAT is a reference to a civilian police method. The subject here is a military attack.

Yes, my mistake. Our SWAT all pro-soldiers, so they acting with no difference and at war also. I should say 'special forces'.

You do not have SWAT if they are soldiers. SWAT refers to military tactics used by civilian police. It is not a trivial difference as civil law applies to SWAT operations. If you insist upon calling it SWAT then you are saying the IDF is subject to civilian law, in this case the laws of Turkey as the murders occurred on a turkish flagged ship.

[quote][quote]There is no question the ship passengers and crew had a right to repel boarders regardless of any immunity from prosecution the Israelis might enjoy. You have stipulated the Israelis have no immunity from prosecution.

Do you know why we arguing?

I have been asking myself that since you started agreeing with me.

Because your point is "there's some rights written at the paper" my point is "there's no right except one: the strongest, the smartest, the most despicable". My point is that million years have passed, people not changed. Israel protects his own tribe with all ways he can. It even plays with US in dangerous games. Smart.

That may be the law of the jungle where you come from but most countries in the world have agreed to higher standards of law. That includes Israel which has signed such treaties. Israel can certainly do what it wants within the limits of its military power. That does not mean the treaties it has signed do not apply to it. Nor does it prevent other countries from dealing with the Israelis involved as criminals. As I said, they can still in Israel for the rest of their lives. Then maybe some hit squad can get to them as the Mossad gets to others.

Again you agree with me. What is your point in continuing this discussion?

---

Unvarnished
Haaretz
Jerusalem Post
The origin of the Yahweh Cult

Activists: Israeli boat raiders had ‘assassination list’

No, this is bullshit. It's too tricky. Much more simplier to assasinate them before or later on a land. No any noise.

The head shot kills with handguns clearly indicate summary execution. Israel is well known for executing prisoners.

The issue of a list is only whether it was pre-planned or spur of the moment executions.

---

Unvarnished
Haaretz
Jerusalem Post
The origin of the Yahweh Cult

1) Mavi Marmara is not a cargo ship. It is a cruise liner. What was they carring? Why not send through Israel or through Egypt that also blocking Gaza?
2) Interesting video of operation on youtube. I clearly see people in bulletproof on a board. This explain headshot. Provocation?
3) I see one of them tries to do smtg with the rope from a helicopter, looks like he tries to tie up rope so helicompter will fall. Our special forces in this case just fly at side and fire a pair missle to sink\blow up all the ship.
That could be massacre. That's what at video - isn't. It is clearly a provocation, not any "humanitarian help". They've got the reaction.

The issue of a list is only whether it was pre-planned or spur of the moment executions.

Or it's made in photoshop.

1) Mavi Marmara is not a cargo ship. It is a cruise liner.

I have read it described as a ferry but either way I do not see the relevance of the construction of the ship. Are you suggesting a cargo ship would not have been boarded?

What was they carring? Why not send through Israel or through Egypt that also blocking Gaza?

Israel could have inspected it as sea. It is done all the time. Even Israel has done it.

However Israel claims to know what is being done under strict military secrecy hundreds of feet underground in Iran. It is not credible it did not know what was being carried by a ship loaded in broad daylight with media coverage invited in ports where there is no illegal arms trade.

It is only credible this was, as you have said, a demonstration of violence to deter others.

2) Interesting video of operation on youtube. I clearly see people in bulletproof on a board. This explain headshot. Provocation?

I have seen the videos and no bulletproof anything is apparent on the victims.

That would not explain as many as four head shots along with body shots in the same bodies. A single headshot and no others maybe. You really should read the reports so you know what you have to explain.

Israel refuses to release all the film or the recordings they confiscated from their victims. We do know they have altered what they did release by their own admission.

3) I see one of them tries to do smtg with the rope from a helicopter, looks like he tries to tie up rope so helicompter will fall. Our special forces in this case just fly at side and fire a pair missle to sink\blow up all the ship.

Presuming your country is Russia when did this mass murder occur?

That could be massacre. That's what at video - isn't.

Israel has released no video showing actual killing. It can't be talked about until all videos are released in their entirety.

It is clearly a provocation, not any "humanitarian help". They've got the reaction.

I see only only people attempting to repel boarders. Where do you see provocation? Repelling boarders is not provocation. To claim it is, is to blame the victim a typical Israeli tactic. It is the Golda Meir line, "We will never forgive them for making us kill them." Maybe a jew really does cry out in pain when he hits you.

The issue of a list is only whether it was pre-planned or spur of the moment executions.

Or it's made in photoshop.

Which is true. However as even you have supported summary executions there is no question of mass murder. The only question here is as to the details.

---

Unvarnished
Haaretz
Jerusalem Post
The origin of the Yahweh Cult

There is no provision for exceptions if one disagrees with the consequences of signing.

Just they don't work
Afghan, Iraq, Yugoslavia, many others

You write like an unrepentant Stalinist. If one could reason with Zionists there would be no Zionists. Same goes for Stalinists.

1)I can't be 'repentant' stalinist - i still didn't born when Stalin came to power and died
2) I really don't think my nation can be effectively ruled by other way. It just was too harsh. TOO harsh.
3) I was born in mighty, big country with big population. Now my country has 1\2 of it's size, fully ruined economy, and depressing decreasing population of 1\3 that it was and China filed the space that should be ours and terrorists wondering everywhere. How do you think i'm thinking of Gorbachev? He had two ways of modernisation - like China's and that we have now. He is fully idiot if it didn't accepted that CIA's secret "Prize for a agent of a History" or what they give to their superheroes.

The US has had a deal with Saudi since the 1930s to keep it in power in return for oil. But in fact the US gets only some 20% of its oil from the middle east so I still don't see your point.

US now rule the world. If US change to gas-powered or electrovehicles or whatever, all the world will follow. Matter of time.

It was very funny when Clinton so muuch spoke about hybrids that japanese was scared and finally developed hybrid cars first.

I am aware of quite a lot of crap going on during WWII but I am unaware the US was doing that after December 11, 1941. Do you have the details?

Nope except KGB archives that you will not accept. It was coming through Carribean bassin and Spain until 1943. Very obfuscated scheme. But if you calculate needs of oil for nazi's, you'll see that they simple didn't have enough for war.
It was "standard oil" company. It's documents list was intercepted by KGB in Venesuella's temporary attourney of US. Name of recepient is Cordell Hall.

That is the sort of trivia I always found when a nonsense claim was made. What does the name have to do with who developed it? There is also a couple Dothans in the US? Can you source the claim that it is related to the one in Israel? Do you have anything better? By better I mean an Intel source not some anonymous source like wikipedia.

http://www.intel.com/technology/itj/2006/volume10issue02/art01_Intro_to_Core_Duo/p11_authors.htm
"Microprocessor group where he serves as the CMP architect of Intel® Core™ Duo processor...'
'was involved in the definition of the Intel® Pentium® M power management, PCI Express* and the Odem chipset'
All the mobile processors from Pentium M (and then Core Duo and sucessors) were developeped there.
Mobile Platform Group, Haifa.

[quote]Blood and atrocities are distinctly different things in this context. People are always fighting over things of value. Gratuitous massacres are a different thing.

Why are you posting? You are describing murder. We agree it was murder. Multiple related murders are correctly described as massacres.

because there's no murders at war. There's war actions. Gaza is under blockade. Blockade means passive war.

For example, you think that Mister X is inprisoned unfairly. You want to give him an hamburger. But instead of giving hamburger through protocol, you climb over the fence at night and get a headshot. Who is wrong?

You can call prison a law institute, but in fact it's just a place of isolation (which means war) of some dangerous elements of nation.

You do not have SWAT if they are soldiers.

Again my mistake: ex-soldiers.

SWAT refers to military tactics used by civilian police.

In my country is no much difference between SWAT and special forces
Civilian police or as you say cops even obey to another institute
Civilian police have some kind of SWAT (OMON), but it's only for meeting dispersal, to stop mass fighting etc.
They rarely or never involved in anti-terrorist special operations etc.

That may be the law of the jungle where you come from but most countries in the world have agreed to higher standards of law.

There's no.
Trouble is, maybe inside this countries, not outside.
Law - is a pure mind product of lazy fat people to protect their investments. It's unnatural by itself. It's just a barrier from a more strong people. But inside, between two companies for example, inside them - there's still the same law of jungle, just at higher level. Call it game of the life.

Presuming your country is Russia when did this mass murder occur?

Not exactly, but like
In 2008 or like this. Japanese poachers was illegaly fishing in our waters, patrol boat spotted them and they started to run. After a few warnings and warning shots, they were still running away, so we torpedoed them.

Israel has released no video showing actual killing. It can't be talked about until all videos are released in their entirety.

Agree

Presuming your country is Russia when did this mass murder occur?

Not exactly,

Not at all like this incident.

but like
In 2008 or like this. Japanese poachers was illegaly fishing in our waters, patrol boat spotted them and they started to run. After a few warnings and warning shots, they were still running away, so we torpedoed them.

You say this happened in Russia's territorial waters. The masscre under discussion occurred in international water where Israel has no jurisdiction.

Israel has released no video showing actual killing. It can't be talked about until all videos are released in their entirety.

Agree

So let us deal only with what we have seen and heard. Passengers repelling boarders and doctored audio recordings.

---

Unvarnished
Haaretz
Jerusalem Post
The origin of the Yahweh Cult

There is no provision for exceptions if one disagrees with the consequences of signing.

Just they don't work
Afghan, Iraq, Yugoslavia, many others

Whether or not in the opinion of a signatory it works it remains a signatory. That is the way law works. They can either work to change the treaty, withdrawn from it or violate it and add to the belief it does not work.

You write like an unrepentant Stalinist. If one could reason with Zionists there would be no Zionists. Same goes for Stalinists.

1)I can't be 'repentant' stalinist - i still didn't born when Stalin came to power and died

I presume you are not a Georgian either but I did not mean that literally. I meant it in the sense of the Stalinist extreme far right as opposed to the Leninist far right. You write with a love of violence usually only exhibited these days by teenagers who have not realized Doom is just a videogame.

[/quote]2) I really don't think my nation can be effectively ruled by other way. It just was too harsh. TOO harsh.

Your empire but perhaps not your country. Chechnya for example is part of your empire but not part of your country.

3) I was born in mighty, big country with big population. Now my country has 1\2 of it's size,[/quote]

Given the size of Siberia I don't see how you could possibly claim losing half the territory.

fully ruined economy,

Marxist economic genius is to blame. You folks never had a fraction the economy could have had without the idiotic ideas of Marx.

and depressing decreasing population of 1\3 that it was

That is reasonable when one considers the loss of the population of the empire just not of the territory. But in not case of just Russia of the ethnic Russians.

and China filed the space that should be ours and terrorists wondering everywhere. How do you think i'm thinking of Gorbachev? He had two ways of modernisation - like China's and that we have now. He is fully idiot if it didn't accepted that CIA's secret "Prize for a agent of a History" or what they give to their superheroes.

One hopes you folks can continue as you have for the last decade. I would suggest you give the oligarchs a fair trial before executing them. I plays better in the West.

The US has had a deal with Saudi since the 1930s to keep it in power in return for oil. But in fact the US gets only some 20% of its oil from the middle east so I still don't see your point.

US now rule the world. If US change to gas-powered or electrovehicles or whatever, all the world will follow. Matter of time.

It was very funny when Clinton so muuch spoke about hybrids that japanese was scared and finally developed hybrid cars first.

The US does not rule the world and nothing it going to make changing away from oil practical or quick. It is all in the economics. All electrics and hybrids cost more to purchase than is saved by the alternate fuel. The life cycle cost is higher than gasoline engines alone. There is no magic. Declarations and demands will not make them cheaper. So far only the rich can afford Japanese hybrids.

I am aware of quite a lot of crap going on during WWII but I am unaware the US was doing that after December 11, 1941. Do you have the details?

Nope except KGB archives that you will not accept. It was coming through Carribean bassin and Spain until 1943. Very obfuscated scheme. But if you calculate needs of oil for nazi's, you'll see that they simple didn't have enough for war.
It was "standard oil" company. It's documents list was intercepted by KGB in Venesuella's temporary attourney of US. Name of recepient is Cordell Hall.

That would depend upon the laws in effect at the time in both the US and Venezuela. I'll look for some information on it.

That is the sort of trivia I always found when a nonsense claim was made. What does the name have to do with who developed it? There is also a couple Dothans in the US? Can you source the claim that it is related to the one in Israel? Do you have anything better? By better I mean an Intel source not some anonymous source like wikipedia.

http://www.intel.com/technology/itj/2006/volume10issue02/art01_Intro_to_Core_Duo/p11_authors.htm
"Microprocessor group where he serves as the CMP architect of Intel® Core™ Duo processor...'
'was involved in the definition of the Intel® Pentium® M power management, PCI Express* and the Odem chipset'
All the mobile processors from Pentium M (and then Core Duo and sucessors) were developeped there.
Mobile Platform Group, Haifa.

Read that again carefully this time. 'was involved in the definition of the Intel® Pentium® M power management, PCI Express* and the Odem chipset' Do you really think being involved in that results in credit for the entire thing? That is what I mean by ridiculous claims.

[quote][quote]Blood and atrocities are distinctly different things in this context. People are always fighting over things of value. Gratuitous massacres are a different thing.

Why are you posting? You are describing murder. We agree it was murder. Multiple related murders are correctly described as massacres.

because there's no murders at war. There's war actions. Gaza is under blockade. Blockade means passive war.

Israel has repeatedly declared it is not at war with Gaza. As it is not at war with Gaza it cannot as though there is a war with Gaza. It cannot declare a blockade of Gaza when it declares it is not at war with Gaza.

For example, you think that Mister X is inprisoned unfairly. You want to give him an hamburger. But instead of giving hamburger through protocol, you climb over the fence at night and get a headshot. Who is wrong?

The party which has falsely imprisoned the other. False imprisonment is the fundamental illegal act. All acts which follow from it are also illegal. That is elementary law.

You can call prison a law institute, but in fact it's just a place of isolation (which means war) of some dangerous elements of nation.

What one decides is dangerous is a separate issue from what it done about that danger. What is done must also be lawful else one is liable to the penalties of the law.

[quote]You do not have SWAT if they are soldiers.

Again my mistake: ex-soldiers.

SWAT refers to military tactics used by civilian police.

In my country is no much difference between SWAT and special forces
Civilian police or as you say cops even obey to another institute
Civilian police have some kind of SWAT (OMON), but it's only for meeting dispersal, to stop mass fighting etc.
They rarely or never involved in anti-terrorist special operations etc.

However this was a purely military operation but not an anti-terror operation. So I do not see where you want to go with this.

That may be the law of the jungle where you come from but most countries in the world have agreed to higher standards of law.

There's no.
Trouble is, maybe inside this countries, not outside.
Law - is a pure mind product of lazy fat people to protect their investments.

And when you ignore the law to do what you want what do you do when others ignore the law and come for you? Your country has a very long history of eliminating real, potential and imagined enemies. One would folks would appreciate the value of the rule of law after living so long upon political power instead of law.

It's unnatural by itself. It's just a barrier from a more strong people. But inside, between two companies for example, inside them - there's still the same law of jungle, just at higher level. Call it game of the life.

You will never have a strong country again until you have a strong rule of law. Without out the next time a strong man comes along he will take over whether or not he is on your side.
[/u]

---

Unvarnished
Haaretz
Jerusalem Post
The origin of the Yahweh Cult

There is no provision for exceptions if one disagrees with the consequences of signing.

Just they don't work
Afghan, Iraq, Yugoslavia, many others

Whether or not in the opinion of a signatory it works it remains a signatory. That is the way law works. They can either work to change the treaty, withdrawn from it or violate it and add to the belief it does not work.

You write like an unrepentant Stalinist. If one could reason with Zionists there would be no Zionists. Same goes for Stalinists.

1)I can't be 'repentant' stalinist - i still didn't born when Stalin came to power and died

I presume you are not a Georgian either but I did not mean that literally. I meant it in the sense of the Stalinist extreme far right as opposed to the Leninist far right. You write with a love of violence usually only exhibited these days by teenagers who have not realized Doom is just a videogame.

[/quote]2) I really don't think my nation can be effectively ruled by other way. It just was too harsh. TOO harsh.

Your empire but perhaps not your country. Chechnya for example is part of your empire but not part of your country.

3) I was born in mighty, big country with big population. Now my country has 1\2 of it's size,[/quote]

Given the size of Siberia I don't see how you could possibly claim losing half the territory.

fully ruined economy,

Marxist economic genius is to blame. You folks never had a fraction the economy could have had without the idiotic ideas of Marx.

and depressing decreasing population of 1\3 that it was

That is reasonable when one considers the loss of the population of the empire just not of the territory. But in not case of just Russia of the ethnic Russians.

and China filed the space that should be ours and terrorists wondering everywhere. How do you think i'm thinking of Gorbachev? He had two ways of modernisation - like China's and that we have now. He is fully idiot if it didn't accepted that CIA's secret "Prize for a agent of a History" or what they give to their superheroes.

One hopes you folks can continue as you have for the last decade. I would suggest you give the oligarchs a fair trial before executing them. I plays better in the West.

The US has had a deal with Saudi since the 1930s to keep it in power in return for oil. But in fact the US gets only some 20% of its oil from the middle east so I still don't see your point.

US now rule the world. If US change to gas-powered or electrovehicles or whatever, all the world will follow. Matter of time.

It was very funny when Clinton so muuch spoke about hybrids that japanese was scared and finally developed hybrid cars first.

The US does not rule the world and nothing it going to make changing away from oil practical or quick. It is all in the economics. All electrics and hybrids cost more to purchase than is saved by the alternate fuel. The life cycle cost is higher than gasoline engines alone. There is no magic. Declarations and demands will not make them cheaper. So far only the rich can afford Japanese hybrids.

I am aware of quite a lot of crap going on during WWII but I am unaware the US was doing that after December 11, 1941. Do you have the details?

Nope except KGB archives that you will not accept. It was coming through Carribean bassin and Spain until 1943. Very obfuscated scheme. But if you calculate needs of oil for nazi's, you'll see that they simple didn't have enough for war.
It was "standard oil" company. It's documents list was intercepted by KGB in Venesuella's temporary attourney of US. Name of recepient is Cordell Hall.

That would depend upon the laws in effect at the time in both the US and Venezuela. I'll look for some information on it.

That is the sort of trivia I always found when a nonsense claim was made. What does the name have to do with who developed it? There is also a couple Dothans in the US? Can you source the claim that it is related to the one in Israel? Do you have anything better? By better I mean an Intel source not some anonymous source like wikipedia.

http://www.intel.com/technology/itj/2006/volume10issue02/art01_Intro_to_Core_Duo/p11_authors.htm
"Microprocessor group where he serves as the CMP architect of Intel® Core™ Duo processor...'
'was involved in the definition of the Intel® Pentium® M power management, PCI Express* and the Odem chipset'
All the mobile processors from Pentium M (and then Core Duo and sucessors) were developeped there.
Mobile Platform Group, Haifa.

Read that again carefully this time. 'was involved in the definition of the Intel® Pentium® M power management, PCI Express* and the Odem chipset' Do you really think being involved in that results in credit for the entire thing? That is what I mean by ridiculous claims.

[quote][quote]Blood and atrocities are distinctly different things in this context. People are always fighting over things of value. Gratuitous massacres are a different thing.

Why are you posting? You are describing murder. We agree it was murder. Multiple related murders are correctly described as massacres.

because there's no murders at war. There's war actions. Gaza is under blockade. Blockade means passive war.

Israel has repeatedly declared it is not at war with Gaza. As it is not at war with Gaza it cannot as though there is a war with Gaza. It cannot declare a blockade of Gaza when it declares it is not at war with Gaza.

For example, you think that Mister X is inprisoned unfairly. You want to give him an hamburger. But instead of giving hamburger through protocol, you climb over the fence at night and get a headshot. Who is wrong?

The party which has falsely imprisoned the other. False imprisonment is the fundamental illegal act. All acts which follow from it are also illegal. That is elementary law.

You can call prison a law institute, but in fact it's just a place of isolation (which means war) of some dangerous elements of nation.

What one decides is dangerous is a separate issue from what it done about that danger. What is done must also be lawful else one is liable to the penalties of the law.

[quote]You do not have SWAT if they are soldiers.

Again my mistake: ex-soldiers.

SWAT refers to military tactics used by civilian police.

In my country is no much difference between SWAT and special forces
Civilian police or as you say cops even obey to another institute
Civilian police have some kind of SWAT (OMON), but it's only for meeting dispersal, to stop mass fighting etc.
They rarely or never involved in anti-terrorist special operations etc.

However this was a purely military operation but not an anti-terror operation. So I do not see where you want to go with this.

That may be the law of the jungle where you come from but most countries in the world have agreed to higher standards of law.

There's no.
Trouble is, maybe inside this countries, not outside.
Law - is a pure mind product of lazy fat people to protect their investments.

And when you ignore the law to do what you want what do you do when others ignore the law and come for you? Your country has a very long history of eliminating real, potential and imagined enemies. One would folks would appreciate the value of the rule of law after living so long upon political power instead of law.

It's unnatural by itself. It's just a barrier from a more strong people. But inside, between two companies for example, inside them - there's still the same law of jungle, just at higher level. Call it game of the life.

You will never have a strong country again until you have a strong rule of law. Without out the next time a strong man comes along he will take over whether or not he is on your side.
[/u]

---

Unvarnished
Haaretz
Jerusalem Post
The origin of the Yahweh Cult

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pn-l_JltCB4

The above is a broadcast from the Mavi Marmara before Israels boarded the ship. The reporters repeatedly stresses the ship is in international waters.

It reports the ship was surrounded by IDF ships which were firing on the Marmara. It shows on man downed by gunfire and reports a second was hit as well as ten more wounded. The scene is from on deck and the IDF has clearly not boarded at that time. The reporter says a white flag was raised but the firing continued.

This footage supports the claim of the passengers that the IDF started shooting before they attempted to board. Also they were not simply repelling boarders but rather repelling murderers who were attempting to board the ship.

=====

Also, as I post this six people are still unaccounted for. They could have been Israeli spies. They may be among the original 11 to 20 people killed. We do not know but they remain missing.

---

Unvarnished
Haaretz
Jerusalem Post
The origin of the Yahweh Cult

I presume you are not a Georgian either but I did not mean that literally. I meant it in the sense of the Stalinist extreme far right as opposed to the Leninist far right. You write with a love of violence usually only exhibited these days by teenagers who have not realized Doom is just a videogame.

Not 'with love' at all. But all our history the every effective ruler was violent, but not every violent - effective. Non-violence and efectiveness, i presume, not possible here as democracy also. :-(

Your empire but perhaps not your country. Chechnya for example is part of your empire but not part of your country.

Impossible. Checnya was a part of Russia since 1588 - before Columb discovered America. We have 180-something nations here, if every nation declare its liberty, it will be total mess. It like to you to enter a politics of aparteide. I wrote above that i would like Checnya not to be in Russia just because it spreading chalifate's ideas around like cancer and looks like we can't face it in our current state. Start killing - very bad reaction from UN, not to start - even bedder.

Given the size of Siberia I don't see how you could possibly claim losing half the territory.

Than look at Varshawa's block size. Because it was USSR de-facto.

Marxist economic genius is to blame. You folks never had a fraction the economy could have had without the idiotic ideas of Marx.

Of course. That's why i'm talking about Chinese. They have some problems, but solved it in other way without any collapse. They are second on the top, we in ass.

That is reasonable when one considers the loss of the population of the empire just not of the territory. But in not case of just Russia of the ethnic Russians.

Ethnic Russians not 'decreasing population'. it's a endangered species.

One hopes you folks can continue as you have for the last decade. I would suggest you give the oligarchs a fair trial before executing them. I plays better in the West.

You know, no one will\can do that. Because they are ruling the country. Their philosophy - to grab as much as they can as fast as they can and run away when something go wrong. All the money accounts are at the west countries banks - EU and etc.

The US does not rule the world and nothing it going to make changing away from oil practical or quick.

No one said 'quick'. But quickier than you think.

It is all in the economics. All electrics and hybrids cost more to purchase than is saved by the alternate fuel

Gas (i mean propane-buthane and like) is sure cheaper. Electricity - i don't know your electricity cost, but with battery replace every 500 cycles - maybe. The life cycle cost is higher than gasoline engines alone. There is no magic.

Declarations and demands will not make them cheaper. So far only the rich can afford Japanese hybrids.

Will be made. At first everything new is costly. I'm not sure about alternativities, but hybrid engine after 10 years will be in a about half of your new cars i think.

Read that again carefully this time. 'was involved in the definition of the Intel® Pentium® M power management, PCI Express* and the Odem chipset' Do you really think being involved in that results in credit for the entire thing? That is what I mean by ridiculous claims.

'Dear corporation Intel! You are written by the radical Moslem from Russia. To me have appointed punishment in 20 sticky sticks because I use computer Core 2 Duo which is made by Jews. This unfair charges I think! Tell please, whether the truth it that Core 2 Duo is made by Jews and should i use AMD.
Hali-Baba'

Interesting what they answer.

You will never have a strong country again until you have a strong rule of law. Without out the next time a strong man comes along he will take over whether or not he is on your side.

Strength - is a only law here, i telling you.
It had once time - after Stalin's death here was very strong law (maybe stronger than yours). Problem was in economy based on hypotetical war and nonexistance of busuness sector only. Chinese solved that smootly, we not.
____________

I presume you are not a Georgian either but I did not mean that literally. I meant it in the sense of the Stalinist extreme far right as opposed to the Leninist far right. You write with a love of violence usually only exhibited these days by teenagers who have not realized Doom is just a videogame.

Not 'with love' at all. But all our history the every effective ruler was violent, but not every violent - effective. Non-violence and efectiveness, i presume, not possible here as democracy also. :-(

Your history. While the Treaty of Westphalia may have lead to larger wars it has resulted in fewer internal wars. The treaty essentially created nation-states based upon national identity. That was somewhat new at the time but has evolved into an easily understood idea. The Russian empire has needed internal force to maintain itself under the Tzars and the Communists and even after them because groups like the Chechnyans have grasped the idea and want it. I agree there is oil money in it for them for success but there has to be something as motivation.

Your empire but perhaps not your country. Chechnya for example is part of your empire but not part of your country.

Impossible. Checnya was a part of Russia since 1588 - before Columb discovered America.

But they remained Chechnyans and could not become Russians. The US has without plan happened onto people choosing to come here to join and to some extent help create a national identity. Because they bought into national identity and because they could never be Russians and because being Russian has always been a very important if not the most important factor they are never going to integrate and can only be kept by force.

We have 180-something nations here, if every nation declare its liberty, it will be total mess.

Legally the US only has 50 nations. There was a way for the original 13 to agree to a separation between states' powers and the national powers. But as it has never mattered much beyond friendly rivalries which state one belonged to the distinction between state and United States has larger blurred its meaning. At all times save the civil war mess people were happy with the benefits of unity and saw no way to do better separately.

But the states have always elected their local governments. The central government has never appointed local officials, period. I thought you folks were on the right track when you permitted local elections. That way you had a chance of keeping people happy and seeing the unity with Russia better than going it alone. But then you took a step backwards and started appointing local governors again.

It like to you to enter a politics of aparteide. I wrote above that i would like Checnya not to be in Russia just because it spreading chalifate's ideas around like cancer and looks like we can't face it in our current state. Start killing - very bad reaction from UN, not to start - even bedder.

Your UN problem with Chechnya is the same as Israel just did. If force does not work you use more force. And if more force does not work then you use even more force. You use force after the point where it unites the people against you. It doesn't work these days because the world can see the results. You may damn the fact that the world has changed but it has changed. Raw images can go around the world in an instant as that video I linked in another post. It is only getting worse for the old style of warfare. The world has been getting sick of it since the european war of 1914. Every reason against that kind of war is the subject of modern mass communications. It is a phenomenon feeding back on itself.

Given the size of Siberia I don't see how you could possibly claim losing half the territory.

Than look at Varshawa's block size. Because it was USSR de-facto.

I do not know way you mean by Varshawa. The USSR included Siberia. What do you mean by Varshawa?

Marxist economic genius is to blame. You folks never had a fraction the economy could have had without the idiotic ideas of Marx.

Of course. That's why i'm talking about Chinese. They have some problems, but solved it in other way without any collapse. They are second on the top, we in ass.

That is reasonable when one considers the loss of the population of the empire just not of the territory. But in not case of just Russia of the ethnic Russians.

Ethnic Russians not 'decreasing population'. it's a endangered species.

76 million last I heard. You have had negative population growth and shorten life expectancy attributed to alcohol. Once you have fully recovered from Marxism those should disappear on their own. That is a population the size of Germany with untapped Siberian resources. You folks could become 4th or 5th in economic production if you set your minds to it. You aren't starting as far in the hole as China or India and they are expanding rapidly.

As an ex-Cold Warrior I was hoping for better after it ended.

One hopes you folks can continue as you have for the last decade. I would suggest you give the oligarchs a fair trial before executing them. I plays better in the West.

You know, no one will\can do that. Because they are ruling the country. Their philosophy - to grab as much as they can as fast as they can and run away when something go wrong. All the money accounts are at the west countries banks - EU and etc.

Yes they do have the attitude that power is allowed to do anything just as you have. But since Putin the previous have been sort of enforced and new ones are being put in place. You folks have a chance. I hope you don't blow it. You took back the national oil company. That was a good first step. Next you need to lease it all out to a lawful profit oriented company.

In China there is a similar attitude. Their government solves it by liberal use of the death penalty for behaving that way. IT is a bit harsh by US standards but I have yet to read a report where it was not commensurate with the crime.

The US does not rule the world and nothing it going to make changing away from oil practical or quick.

No one said 'quick'. But quickier than you think.

It is all in the economics. All electrics and hybrids cost more to purchase than is saved by the alternate fuel

Gas (i mean propane-buthane and like) is sure cheaper. Electricity - i don't know your electricity cost, but with battery replace every 500 cycles - maybe. The life cycle cost is higher than gasoline engines alone. There is no magic.

Declarations and demands will not make them cheaper. So far only the rich can afford Japanese hybrids.

Will be made. At first everything new is costly. I'm not sure about alternativities, but hybrid engine after 10 years will be in a about half of your new cars i think.

My degree is in physics, my career was in R&D and in engineering management. I follow these things in some detail and do understand what I read. There is still nothing that economies of scale that can make it competitive. There are several major new developments needed to make them cost even the same overall.

Electric power sounds great. A long time ago I researched it and found the amount of energy used for transportation was about equal to all the electrical power production. That means to go to electric transportation the electric power generation capacity has to double. This means it is not just the cost of the vehicle itself. This does not mean double the number of power plants IF most of the charging is done at off peak hours. It does mean double the fuel consumption which presently is mostly oil. So converting to electrics by itself increases the need for oil. Reality is a nasty thing. Obviously the solution is nuclear power but the people pushing electric cars are also against nuclear power.

Read that again carefully this time. 'was involved in the definition of the Intel® Pentium® M power management, PCI Express* and the Odem chipset' Do you really think being involved in that results in credit for the entire thing? That is what I mean by ridiculous claims.

'Dear corporation Intel! You are written by the radical Moslem from Russia. To me have appointed punishment in 20 sticky sticks because I use computer Core 2 Duo which is made by Jews. This unfair charges I think! Tell please, whether the truth it that Core 2 Duo is made by Jews and should i use AMD.
Hali-Baba'

Interesting what they answer.

It is not a matter of what they answer. It is a matter of what they wrote. Having a part of the job on power management is not designing the entire chip. It is a contribution to a small part of the design of the chip. I am also somewhat familiar with chip design having followed the development of integrated circuits from the beginning. I learned electronics on vacuum tubes. All of power management is a very small part of the design of these chips.

You can tell me otherwise all you want. I know what it is.

---

Unvarnished
Haaretz
Jerusalem Post
The origin of the Yahweh Cult

Your history. While the Treaty of Westphalia may have lead to larger wars it has resulted in fewer internal wars. The treaty essentially created nation-states based upon national identity. That was somewhat new at the time but has evolved into an easily understood idea. The Russian empire has needed internal force to maintain itself under the Tzars and the Communists and even after them because groups like the Chechnyans have grasped the idea and want it. I agree there is oil money in it for them for success but there has to be something as motivation.

I tell you motivate is very simple: caucasus emirate with shariah as a law.
20 years ago no one even could think about such a thing.

But they remained Chechnyans and could not become Russians.

Could. Never wanted.
Because to be russian means to be worker as everyone.
They'd better sittin up there and do nothing
Now every month we loose great amount of money to have peace there because in another way middle east will pay for them to make a emirate by war. And they sitting do nothing. It's dead end.
Like some of your people who lives from the unemployment benefit and don't want to work.

Legally the US only has 50 nations. There was a way for the original 13 to agree to a separation between states' powers and the national powers. But as it has never mattered much beyond friendly rivalries which state one belonged to the distinction between state and United States has larger blurred its meaning. At all times save the civil war mess people were happy with the benefits of unity and saw no way to do better separately.

It because you don't have much more rich countries nearby
If you'd had Mexica looking like united arabian emirates, or became more poor than Mexica, it'll be another way.

But then you took a step backwards and started appointing local governors again.

The great idea of Unspeakable One.
Down i write, why.

If force does not work you use more force. And if more force does not work then you use even more force. You use force after the point where it unites the people against you. It doesn't work these days because the world can see the results. You may damn the fact that the world has changed but it has changed.

In fact, it works well
Problem only that Israel can spit at UN and all world opinion, we - not.

I do not know way you mean by Varshawa. The USSR included Siberia. What do you mean by Varshawa?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Pact
Siberia by the way is almost unusable. It too cold and too far away. It development worked before but now, in global world, any siberian product does not maintain a competition - it cost too much in production and tranportation.
Something like your Alaska.

The main loss was Kazakstan, of course.

Okay, not 1\2, 1\3.

76 million last I heard. You have had negative population growth and shorten life expectancy attributed to alcohol. Once you have fully recovered from Marxism those should disappear on their own. That is a population the size of Germany with untapped Siberian resources. You folks could become 4th or 5th in economic production if you set your minds to it. You aren't starting as far in the hole as China or India and they are expanding rapidly.

And loosing like 4 millions\year.
Problem is not in alchogol. Alchogol is just consequence.
Problem is that real life is only in 3-4 big towns. If you call it life.

For example, i'm average programmer. My salary about 2000 US$\Month. Question: do i have aspiration to make a family? Answer: no, because standard new flat here cost about 500.000 us$. It's more than i can receive in my whole life.

The same everywhere.

Question: why prices are so high then?
Answer: because it's a subject of investment to oligarchs.

As an ex-Cold Warrior I was hoping for better after it ended.

As we say, optimists learns English language, pessimist learns Chinese language, realists learns how to assemble AK-47

Yes they do have the attitude that power is allowed to do anything just as you have. But since Putin the previous have been sort of enforced and new ones are being put in place. You folks have a chance. I hope you don't blow it. You took back the national oil company. That was a good first step. Next you need to lease it all out to a lawful profit oriented company.

You still don't get it, don't you? The Unspeakable One is one of oligharcs. He just gets rid of competitors. And where, as i said, all the money goes?

10 years of oil superreacness - no one new road. No one.

IT is a bit harsh by US standards but I have yet to read a report where it was not commensurate with the crime.

Stalin also did not shoot anyone without 'proper investigation' so the line is very thin.

My degree is in physics, my career was in R&D and in engineering management. I follow these things in some detail and do understand what I read. There is still nothing that economies of scale that can make it competitive. There are several major new developments needed to make them cost even the same overall.

Not only you have degree.
7-8 yers ago i argued with 'specialists' in optics and photography. They laughed at me and was saying that photocamera in phones is just a toy fro blondes, marketing stuff and never will competite to real digital or not. By the word, I have lost dispute but have kept opinion.

It does mean double the fuel consumption which presently is mostly oil.

In your country. And right now.
There's only 2 really effective type of power stations - nuclear (thermo-nuclear in future) and hydroelectric power station. Maybe charcoal also because it's almost everywhere. Maybe solar-powered if they will increase efficiency. Maybe... much more 'maybe' which no one can predict.
By the way here doubling of power consumption, even triple of it means nothing. Remember, infrastructure here is calculated for the war needs.

So converting to electrics by itself increases the need for oil. Reality is a nasty thing.

Obviously the solution is nuclear power but the people pushing electric cars are also against nuclear power.

Do you mean 'greens'? This is a drop in the ocean. I'm not a 'green' at all, but i also want hybrid and not because of fuel authonomy - it's much more faster, has more power and very quet.

Total electricity cars here not possible because too large part of country is totally wild and you need some fuel reserve whivch is impossible in electrics. But hybrid is ok, and gas powered used relative widely. Electricity bikes is a new fashion, but not cars.

It is not a matter of what they answer.

Man, you sure don't have a sense of humor.

For those who have not been following the situation Turkey was Israel's only friend in the region. Israel shafted his peace efforts with Syria by not informing him of the planned massacre in Gaza, Operation Cast Lead, some 17 months ago.

The fallout is continuing. The fun thing to watch is the Iranian Red Crescent sending relief to Gaza. This is fun in the sense that you might like seeing "War Games" in real life instead of as a movie.

In 1947 Exodus was the beginning of the end for the Brits in Palestine. We are watching the sequel. Any wannabe Leon Urises out there should be taking notes.

=====

haaretz

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/erdogan-urges-sanctions-against-israel-1.294804

* Published 01:53 08.06.10
* Latest update 01:53 08.06.10

Erdogan urges sanctions against Israel

By Avi Issacharoff and Jack Khoury

Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan yesterday urged the
international community to impose sanctions on Israel. Turkish President
Abdullah Gul, left, meeting yesterday with Palestinian President Mahmoud
Abbas, ah

Turkish President Abdullah Gul, left, meeting yesterday with Palestinian
President Mahmoud Abbas, ahead of today’s summit of the Conference on
Interaction and Confidence-Building Measures in Asia. Photo by: AFP

Meanwhile, the Iranian Red Crescent Society announced yesterday that it
intends to send its own aid flotilla to the Gaza Strip this coming Friday
(see adjacent story). The organization said the flotilla will reach Gaza
via the Suez Canal - a move calculated to embarrass Egypt.

"What occurred on the flotilla was a crime against humanity," Erdogan
declared at a joint press conference in Istanbul with Syrian President
Bashar Assad, referring to Israel's raid on a Gaza-bound ship last Monday.
"Palestine and Gaza are one big prison, and this situation cannot continue."
He demanded that Israel end its blockade on Gaza immediately and said that
Turkey is ready to supply Gaza with anything it needs. "We cannot remain
silent, and we will not remain silent any longer, about everything connected
to Gaza," Erdogan said.

The Turkish prime minister also attacked Israel for alleging that some of
the Turks aboard the Mavi Marmara were terrorists, saying Israel would never
have freed them if they were - blithely ignoring the fact that Israel freed
all the passengers primarily because Turkey demanded it. Further, Turkey
backed its demand with threats of serious harm to the bilateral relationship
if Israel failed to comply.

Syria's Assad lashed out at Israel as well, saying he came to Istanbul
primarily "to condemn the Israeli crime."

"We are not people who just talk and issue condemnations; we favor action,"
he said. "And we hereby declare that we will support any decision and any
step Turkey wishes to take to break the siege, including support for an
international investigation."

The raid, he said, was "a crime that exposed Israel's true face. Israel
murdered Turkish citizens, and all of Israel's lies about its soldiers being
attacked [by the Turkish passengers] have not convinced the free world,
which isn't buying Israel's story."

"For Israel," Assad charged, "the peace process is an infected wound that,
when you touch it, causes great pain. Turkey, with its peace initiatives,
exposed this wound for Israel, which has always hidden behind accusations
against the Arabs and their readiness for peace."

The press conference was held on the sidelines of a meeting of the
Conference on Interaction and Confidence-Building Measures in Asia, which
Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas also attended as well as an
Israeli representative. CICA is an intergovernmental security forum.

Also yesterday, Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu demanded that
Israel consent to an international probe of the flotilla incident, saying
its refusal would be a sign that it has something to hide.

---

Unvarnished
Haaretz
Jerusalem Post
The origin of the Yahweh Cult

Interesting. Very interesting. All our press shows Israel as 'innocent' but the government statements about it absolutely different. So if US will allow UN sanctions against Israel we will not place veto on them it think.

Interesting. Very interesting. All our press shows Israel as 'innocent' but the government statements about it absolutely different. So if US will allow UN sanctions against Israel we will not place veto on them it think.

UN sanctions are certainly warranted based upon the available evidence but a US veto is still likely unless so watered down the exercise is meaningless. Against all advice Truman recognized Israel (NOT as a jewish state) because of the number of Jewish voters -- his reason. That still applies but it never meant voters rather contributors. It is no secret that over 60% of its economy is owned by seven families. They have relatives in the US which means campaign contributions.

The good news is the old are dying off and the young don't really give a damn about Israel and really don't like the renegade behavior of a nation which claims to embody western values.

Unfortunately in the US this still leaves the 40 to 60 million brain dead, rednecked born-agains who support Israel because they are not very bright. They also call themselves Christian Zionists. Back when Sharon sent his tanks into the West Bank Bush publicly told him to get them out. The rednecks overwhelmed the White House switchboard supporting Sharon's slaughter of Palestinians. Bush backed down.

In reality Obama is the first president to have any street cred in the middle east and he does appear to have a bit of a red neck. For the first time a man who could deal with both sides tried to make peace. He asked Israel to pause construction in the occupied territories. Israel replied simply FIRETRUCK* YOU!

Funny thing I get from reading Israeli news sources. There appears to be no disagreement its government is openly fascist and racist. The only disagreement is whether or not it is a good idea.

It would be boring were I to make too many posts on Israel given this international audience so I have limited it to international issues. For the US, which provides at least 10% of what in the US would be called the federal budget each year there is clearly an issue for Americans not wishing to be associated with those savages. But that is a national issue even though it gives every American a say on Israel's internal politics.

=====

* apologies to Soupy Sales

---

Unvarnished
Haaretz
Jerusalem Post
The origin of the Yahweh Cult

I tell you motivate is very simple: caucasus emirate with shariah as a law. 20 years ago no one even could think about such a thing.

20 years ago one would not have expected a violent movement in Israel to establish Torah law in the country. Between the two, Shariah is much more civilized.

---

Unvarnished
Haaretz
Jerusalem Post
The origin of the Yahweh Cult

The vote to give the orthodox control over Judaism in Israel was put off for six months with a last minute deal from the prime minister.