Message boards :
Politics :
Climate Change, 'Greenhouse' effects, Environment, etc part II
Message board moderation
Previous · 1 . . . 19 · 20 · 21 · 22 · 23 · 24 · 25 . . . 28 · Next
Author | Message |
---|---|
Nick Send message Joined: 11 Oct 11 Posts: 4344 Credit: 3,313,107 RAC: 0 |
IPPC (European Government) Global Warming report 2001. The opening to this report copied below... The climate of the Earth as a whole This opening fairly-well substantiates what MajorKong said when he wrote... That said, merely demonstrating that CO2 absorbs some IR does nothing to prove AGW. Clearly you cannot isolate just CO2 as being the root cause behind AGW. Understanding how climates works, it's natural cycles of warming/cooling do need to be understood too. Geochemical CO2 and other gas emissions from volcanoes and earth quakes needs also to understood. The composite equation to all this is very complicated especially where variable parameters of this equation are involved. (Var.1) natural global warming/cooling cycles. (Var.2) natural background CO2 emissions. (Var.3) natural tiltations of the the Earth. (Var.4) natural fluctuations in the temerature of the sun. (Var.5) CO2 emission by humans and animals. (Var.6) natural geochemical CO2 and other gas emissions. So it can be seen from the above, a lot needs to be understood about a lot of things not understood before we can point a finger at any one of them. For one of the above to be a sole cause of AGW then it has to be having a massive effect overall. CO2 generated by us humans in all it's forms is just not high enough to be the sinner behind Global Warming, well, not yet anyway. The Kite Fliers -------------------- Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes. |
BarryAZ Send message Joined: 1 Apr 01 Posts: 2580 Credit: 16,982,517 RAC: 0 |
Fair enough -- note to those who hold those unbelievable views that there is global warming and that the icecaps are melting and that the ocean is rising -- sell off your low lying real estate to those who believe otherwise and are willing to part with their 'cold hard' for the opportunity. At the same time, make sure to lobby against government supports for coastal line flood insurance and government emergency interventions for hurricanes and coastal flooding -- as THAT is socialism for sure, after all the government is supposed to work on inconsequential. As both global warming and 'no global warming' are belief systems with differing world views, in a capitalist society people should find the means to make 'cold hard' by trading on the differing views -- put their money where their brain is, so to speak.
|
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30971 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
If melting icecap I invented the Internet, Gore was right, by now all of Florida should be under water. It isn't. In any case let me point out the biosphere experiment. Clearly the experts thought they understood the atmosphere and the interaction with living things. However when they ran the experiment they quickly found out something else was going on. Warmers hate this, and will do everything they can to discredit this, because if it is correct it means warmers are going FUD on GIGO models. Now back to that melting but never evaporating water so the sea level rises, uh, warm some water and see what happens to it. Also you might try putting an ice cube or two in a glass and filling it to the brim and see what happens when it melts. That is your arctic ocean and polar ice cap. |
BarryAZ Send message Joined: 1 Apr 01 Posts: 2580 Credit: 16,982,517 RAC: 0 |
Hyperbole alert -- sea level rises being talked about are in the range of inches at most annually. So owning sea level property is ok for you if you of a certain age, but perhaps not to be passed on. Florida is definitely low lying, but we're talking land level altitudes in at least 10's of feet above current sea level. It is more a future level question, and I can understand not worrying too much about how things will be in 2050 (I'm 60 myself and have no children). I find it interesting that some of the same folks who don't worry about global warming worry so much about Social Security funding. I suppose one could tell them not to worry about things 20 years from now. Me, I'm strange I guess, I worry about both. I suppose it's an internal logic thing for me. Similarly, I find the folks decrying any form of birth control but advocating capital punishment a bit logically odd. Again, that's just me. If melting icecap I invented the Internet, Gore was right, by now all of Florida should be under water. It isn't. |
MOMMY: He is MAKING ME Read His Posts Thoughts and Prayers. GOoD Thoughts and GOoD Prayers. HATERWORLD Vs THOUGHTs and PRAYERs World. It Is a BATTLE ROYALE. Nobody LOVEs Me. Everybody HATEs Me. Why Don't I Go Eat Worms. Tasty Treats are Wormy Meat. Yes Send message Joined: 16 Jun 02 Posts: 6895 Credit: 6,588,977 RAC: 0 |
Again, that's just me. There are so many reasons The Sea Can Rise Up And Inundate. Quickly. Like minutes and hours. In Escape From LA, the Character played by P. Fonda and K. Russell had their boards at the ready for The Event. And Hang Ten they did. There are just as many reasons for The Land to Quickly fall out from under us. The Social Security Checks come Monthly and are Needed Desperately by Most as soon as recieved. Worry about Sea Level Rise Decades From Now. Hardly the same. An Embryo/Fetus/Baby/Child are Completely Innocent. A Murderer on Death Row, Not So Much. Again, Hardly the same. For Most of Us with Reason, The Logic is Not Odd at All. When a Porpoise or Whale sticks its head out of The Water and tells me To Run For Your Life, then I'll Worry, As I Run. MarathonDull May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!! |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21099 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
Good collection there from Major Kong... OK, so to keep this simple and with few words, I'll try some videos to show some small steps. And there is one last scary one for everyone... OK, so firstly, a demonstration of the physics of what's happening with our atmosphere: Youtube: CO2 experiment Youtube: CO2-Ink Demonstration (And note our atmosphere is far deeper than those jars...) Youtube: Mythbusters tests global warming theory - does CO2 warm air? It's our only planet, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21099 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
Following on, with a little entertainment: Youtube: Blue Man Group on Global Warming Youtube: Sir David Attenborough: The Truth About Climate Change (And how fast is 'rapid'?) It's our only planet, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21099 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
And NOW... The promised must-see scary one: Youtube: The Most Terrifying Video You'll Ever See (Even if we do not know exactly.) It's our only planet, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21099 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
Meanwhile, at the 'top of the world' this is already happening: Polar bear 'cannibalism' pictured ... an image that is sure to shock many people. An adult polar bear is seen dragging the body of a cub that it has just killed across the Arctic sea ice. Polar bears normally hunt seals but if these are not available, the big predators will seek out other sources of food - even their own kind. ... ... "This type of intraspecific predation has always occurred to some extent," she told BBC News. "However, there are increasing numbers of observations of it occurring, particularly on land where polar bears are trapped ashore, completely food-deprived for extended periods of time due to the loss of sea ice as a result of climate change." ... ... "On land, they're looking for human garbage and human foods; they're starting to prey on seabirds and their eggs. "None of those alternative foods can support them, but they are seeking them out. ... It's our only planet, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21099 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
For those sitting comfortably, here's a lecture summarising the history of 'Global Warming' (or, a history of conspiracy?): Youtube, 1 hour program: The American Denial of Global Warming ... "A great geophysical experiment"... ... "The greatest deception in the history of science"... Yes, there is indeed an amazing conspiracy there. Please see for yourself where the conspiracy has arisen from. It's our only planet, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
Nick Send message Joined: 11 Oct 11 Posts: 4344 Credit: 3,313,107 RAC: 0 |
Good collection there from Major Kong... Thanks for those video links ML, good to see children getting involved in the sciences. The second video is very significant, not in the density of ink molecules seen in the jars of water, but in the figure of 38% increase in CO2 ppm since the onset of industialisation. This rise in CO2 equates to a rise of just over 1 degree centigrade in average planetary temperatures. If CO2 levels are still on the increase why has the average planetary temperatures now levelled out without any reported increase since 1996. This is a fundamental question that needs to be satisfactorily answered. Without a satisfactory answer to this question then the CO2 case is dead on it's feet. A reason why I place this CO2 outside the equation to the real source behind purported global warming. The Kite Fliers -------------------- Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes. |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21099 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
... why has the average planetary temperatures now levelled out without any reported increase since 1996... Note that context is important... What source do you have for that claim? All our only world, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
Nick Send message Joined: 11 Oct 11 Posts: 4344 Credit: 3,313,107 RAC: 0 |
... why has the average planetary temperatures now levelled out without any reported increase since 1996... Write to the European Commission in Brussels and request a copy of their latest report on climate change. If they are kind enough to send you a copy then give it a thorough read. Next ask your local MEP if he would kindly obtain for you a copy of this same report but in draft form. The reason for all this is so that you can view the difference between the two copies of the same report. If at this point you manage to obtain the two copies note the striking difference between the two in relation to average world temperatures. The draft copy has this information available within it, the published copy of the report has this data omitted. The draft copy states that there has been no increase in average world temperatures over the past 15 years. The above has been publicly reported by an UK IND MEP, had he been lying over this issue he would have been subpoenaed for it. No such writ has been issued against him that's because he is telling the truth. His disclosure only goes to support those who have publicly stated that average world temperatures have not increased at least since year 2000. Question: Why did the Commissions published report have this data omitted? Skulduggery comes to mind here, so we both have to independently search for the truth by our own independent means. The Kite Fliers -------------------- Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes. |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21099 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
... why has the average planetary temperatures now levelled out without any reported increase since 1996... And such is the source of conspiracy theories... You already have these documents yourself? Far easier is if you can post images of the relevant pages so that we can all see for ourselves what it is that you are looking at. Sorry, but to go on a wild chase will take far longer than the life of this thread. Please post the relevant pages that you have so that we can see for ourselves... Is that your only hard evidence that we can continue to pollute our planet without consequence? Still our only one planet, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
Nick Send message Joined: 11 Oct 11 Posts: 4344 Credit: 3,313,107 RAC: 0 |
Sorry, but to go on a wild chase will take far longer than the life of this thread. Please post the relevant pages that you have so that we can see for ourselves... You don't have to appologies, I will see what I can get my hands on. The Kite Fliers -------------------- Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes. |
Nick Send message Joined: 11 Oct 11 Posts: 4344 Credit: 3,313,107 RAC: 0 |
ML, Any draft copies of EC reports are not made available for release into the public domain, not very surprised by this. What I have managed to do is locate a reference to the data having been excluded from the EC published report. I do gather though that this reference to average global temperatures staying static over the past 15 years is unchangeable, it is an accepted fact by all parties. Currently for this year (2011) the average global temperature has dropped. I also think the science is being manipulated to put a political spin on it which for all our sakes might not be too clever in the long run. The Kite Fliers -------------------- Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes. |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21099 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
... I do gather though that this reference to average global temperatures staying static over the past 15 years is unchangeable, it is an accepted fact by all parties. Currently for this year (2011) the average global temperature has dropped. Are you referring to this? Global Temperature News ... La Niña conditions have made 2011 a relatively cool year – relatively, because they predict it will still rank amongst the 10 hottest years on record. They further predict it will be the warmest La Niña year on record (those are the blue years in the bar graph above). Still our only one planet, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
Nick Send message Joined: 11 Oct 11 Posts: 4344 Credit: 3,313,107 RAC: 0 |
La Niña conditions have made 2011 a relatively cool year – relatively, because they predict it will still rank amongst the 10 hottest years on record. They further predict it will be the warmest La Niña year on record (those are the blue years in the bar graph above). We wait and see how accurate this prediction is. I don't like predictions though, let down by the one stating back over ten years ago that the UK would have continental summers? Something to ponder over though, "Who's pumping out the true story"... ...Professor Phil Jones (University of East Anglia) or.... ...Professor Richard Linden (Massachusetts Institute of Technology) The Kite Fliers -------------------- Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes. |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21099 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
La Niña conditions have made 2011 a relatively cool year – relatively, because they predict it will still rank amongst the 10 hottest years on record. They further predict it will be the warmest La Niña year on record (those are the blue years in the bar graph above). Ah yes... Very famous names. I would describe Professor Phil Jones as a hard working professor somewhat out of his depth when it comes to the painful glare of media intrusion. He has also suffered some vicious threats and media attacks. All very unscientific. And then there is the Quixotic Professor Linden, fiercely intelligent and yet: Shame on Richard Lindzen, MIT’s uber-hypocritical anti-scientific scientist ... it is Lindzen who is far more richly rewarded for spreading anti-science than Broecker ever has been before explaining science: "Lindzen, for his part, charges oil and coal interests $2,500 a day for his consulting services." ... A question of motivation beyond science? Have you taken the interest to watch the 'great science swindle' already linked to in earlier posts? Still our only one planet, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
Nick Send message Joined: 11 Oct 11 Posts: 4344 Credit: 3,313,107 RAC: 0 |
I would describe Professor Phil Jones as a hard working professor somewhat out of his depth when it comes to the painful glare of media intrusion. He has also suffered some vicious threats and media attacks. All very unscientific. Both with possible skeletons in their cupboards. Quite honestly Martin one gets feed up with all these videos around. We both should have studied to become climatologists, we could have made plenty of money from this irrespective of who's side of the fence we stood on. For sure though both of us would have then found the truth.... ....But which one of us will have been telling it? both I'm sure.... ..."Merry Christmas"... The Kite Fliers -------------------- Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes. |
©2024 University of California
SETI@home and Astropulse are funded by grants from the National Science Foundation, NASA, and donations from SETI@home volunteers. AstroPulse is funded in part by the NSF through grant AST-0307956.