Unhappy kitties......

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Profile hiamps
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Message 983167 - Posted: 24 Mar 2010, 18:35:57 UTC - in response to Message 983138.  

Just got back from a shopping trip to Meownard's.
Picking up supplies for the new service drop to the crunchers.
Sure I forgot something, but I'm not sure what.
About $230.00 later, I headed home with......

Square D 6 position breaker box
50' 6/3 w/ground NM cable to run from the main panel to the subfeed
1 50amp 2 pole breaker to install in the main panel to feed the subfeed
6 15amp 1 pole breakers for the subfeed, 1 for each branch
50' 12/2 w/ground NM cable to cut up into 6 pieces, 1 for each branch
6 metal handy boxes w/duplex outlet covers
6 P&S 15a duplex outlets
Misc. box connectors and staples
and a 7/8" bit to bore through the living room floor.

So, I'll end up with 50amps of 240v, split into 6 15amp 120v duplex outlets in metal boxes, each at the end of about 7' of 12/2 cable.
About 10,800 watts on tap to feed the crunchers. All properly circuit breaker protected and grounded.

Guess the only Firemen you will meet will be ones you want to meet. Awesome, could step up to 20 Amp if ever needed but as is will be Totally Safe!
Now we won't have to worry about singed Kitty hair, it stinks.
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Message 983173 - Posted: 24 Mar 2010, 19:16:38 UTC

Ok, anyone wanna take bets on how long he goes before he's bought enough more stuff to have to do this all over again?? :-)


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Message 983179 - Posted: 24 Mar 2010, 19:37:10 UTC - in response to Message 983173.  

Ok, anyone wanna take bets on how long he goes before he's bought enough more stuff to have to do this all over again?? :-)

The way this is set up he will pop breakers before anything gets warm. On top of that he has a few extra outlets left over. I think it will be a long time before he pushes this to the limits.

If you saw his other thread on this subject, it was a problem waiting to happen. He had extension cords and power strips all over the place trying to find the power he needs. Now his farm will all be on this connection and all the old overloaded outlets will go unused.
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Message 983181 - Posted: 24 Mar 2010, 19:38:51 UTC - in response to Message 983179.  

... all the old overloaded outlets will go unused.

I think that's what the bet is about ;-)
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Message 983190 - Posted: 24 Mar 2010, 19:55:33 UTC

On top of that he has a few extra outlets left over.


How long can he go before he gets all these extra outlets filled up and extension cords running again? :-)


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Message 983195 - Posted: 24 Mar 2010, 20:04:01 UTC - in response to Message 983190.  
Last modified: 24 Mar 2010, 20:39:28 UTC

On top of that he has a few extra outlets left over.


How long can he go before he gets all these extra outlets filled up and extension cords running again? :-)

Do you have any idea how much heat is generated by 10,000 watts? Most of the small space electric space heaters they sell in the store are only about 1000 watts. Your talking 10 space heaters in his farm room. He should be able to leave the door open in the dead of winter and still stay warm so I think it will be self limiting.
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Message 983216 - Posted: 24 Mar 2010, 20:59:38 UTC - in response to Message 983148.  

15A on 12/2? Here I have 20A on 12/2(outlets and breakers), I'm looking at getting a 20A power strip(Tripp Lite TLM615NC20 6-Outlet Power Strip (15/20 Amp)). I was told by the electrical contractor that I paid, that 12/2 will handle a 20A circuit.

If your only goal is to meet code, then 14/2 is just fine for a 15a branch.

... but among other things, code does not anticipate drawing more than 12a continuous on a 15a circuit.

Running 12/2 adds another margin of safety.

Around here, 100' of 14/2 is about $35, while 100' of 12/2 is a shade over $50.

Cheap insurance.
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Message 983222 - Posted: 24 Mar 2010, 21:04:33 UTC - in response to Message 983216.  

15A on 12/2? Here I have 20A on 12/2(outlets and breakers), I'm looking at getting a 20A power strip(Tripp Lite TLM615NC20 6-Outlet Power Strip (15/20 Amp)). I was told by the electrical contractor that I paid, that 12/2 will handle a 20A circuit.

If your only goal is to meet code, then 14/2 is just fine for a 15a branch.

... but among other things, code does not anticipate drawing more than 12a continuous on a 15a circuit.

Running 12/2 adds another margin of safety.

Around here, 100' of 14/2 is about $35, while 100' of 12/2 is a shade over $50.

Cheap insurance.

Also, this is about SIZING. The circuits should be sized based on the "nameplate" power for each power supply because the system could theoretically draw that much power during start up or other "events."

... and all of the computers on a circuit could "spike" at the same instant. Unlikely, but if you assume that you'd be safe.

Circuits should be sized for the absolute worst case, even if it is very unlikely.
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Message 983232 - Posted: 24 Mar 2010, 21:10:50 UTC

Perhaps in the UK and Europe we are luck to run 230V mains, generally rated ar 13A. So, a crunching load draw of 4kw continuous will not trip the system or make the cables warm.

The cooker circuits are fused to 45A, and can be rigged for crunching use if any one really wanted. It will all come home to roost in the power bills.
It's good to be back amongst friends and colleagues



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Message 983243 - Posted: 24 Mar 2010, 21:27:43 UTC

Rig on a Bench is only drawing 2.5 amps and is running on an extension lead with a 3 amp fuse for protection.It has an RAC of 35k and is on 24/7.

AMD Phenom(tm) II X4 965 Processor [x86 Family 16 Model 4 Stepping 3]
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Message 983244 - Posted: 24 Mar 2010, 21:31:39 UTC - in response to Message 983234.  

15A on 12/2? Here I have 20A on 12/2(outlets and breakers), I'm looking at getting a 20A power strip(Tripp Lite TLM615NC20 6-Outlet Power Strip (15/20 Amp)). I was told by the electrical contractor that I paid, that 12/2 will handle a 20A circuit.

If your only goal is to meet code, then 14/2 is just fine for a 15a branch.

... but among other things, code does not anticipate drawing more than 12a continuous on a 15a circuit.

Running 12/2 adds another margin of safety.

Around here, 100' of 14/2 is about $35, while 100' of 12/2 is a shade over $50.

Cheap insurance.

Also, this is about SIZING. The circuits should be sized based on the "nameplate" power for each power supply because the system could theoretically draw that much power during start up or other "events."

... and all of the computers on a circuit could "spike" at the same instant. Unlikely, but if you assume that you'd be safe.

Circuits should be sized for the absolute worst case, even if it is very unlikely.

Sounds good to Me, Mind Ya unlike some of the Pros in here I'm just average Joe who knows how to wire a circuit, But has no formal training(I watched lots of electricians when I did work, I was a guard then so I had the time and I was doing My job) and who can't do It anymore as It's too taxing(please don't ask).

With electrical work, if your not sure, don't risk it and get someone who knows. To many fires and to many people have been killed because someone was not careful with it. We are a bunch of belt an suspender people because we often have knowledge that extends beyond what your normal electrical worker trains for. We allow for conditions that may only exist for a fraction of a second and may not cause harm, but it's not worth the risk. Most of the time the little additional cost can double or triple your level of safety.

If you are considering moving, it may be a good idea to consider if you should be spending the money for altering the power setup. If you will only be there for a short time you will never get your money out of it and the changes will not add to the resale value. You might be better to turn off some hardware for a few months till you move.
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Message 983248 - Posted: 24 Mar 2010, 21:47:39 UTC - in response to Message 983232.  

Perhaps in the UK and Europe we are luck to run 230V mains, generally rated ar 13A. So, a crunching load draw of 4kw continuous will not trip the system or make the cables warm.

The cooker circuits are fused to 45A, and can be rigged for crunching use if any one really wanted. It will all come home to roost in the power bills.


My limit here is not the 32A ring mains or the 45A cooker feed, but the 60A incoming mains that I have, with no way of upgrading without major excavation works, which 'aint happening!

I often trip the 60A incoming trip in the Winter - particularly as I heat electric!
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Message 983249 - Posted: 24 Mar 2010, 21:54:43 UTC - in response to Message 983196.  
Last modified: 24 Mar 2010, 21:55:01 UTC

SNIP

The kitties must be safe.[quote]
Sounds good, Me I'd have to have the two 20A outlets moved closer to My desk and have one 15A type outlet on the countertop(above the dishwasher) looked at as It's always seemed a bit flaky, Sometimes the outlet would provide juice and other times, nothing, right now It's just used for a light, not for a PC, a monitor and a light.

I would advise you not to use that plug until it is checked out. Any intermitant electrical problem is a potential fire waiting to happen. More fires are caused by lamps than just about anything else electrical. I am a Journeyman Electrician. Mobile homes are famous for loose wiring.
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Message 983251 - Posted: 24 Mar 2010, 21:58:12 UTC - in response to Message 983248.  

Perhaps in the UK and Europe we are luck to run 230V mains, generally rated ar 13A. So, a crunching load draw of 4kw continuous will not trip the system or make the cables warm.

The cooker circuits are fused to 45A, and can be rigged for crunching use if any one really wanted. It will all come home to roost in the power bills.


My limit here is not the 32A ring mains or the 45A cooker feed, but the 60A incoming mains that I have, with no way of upgrading without major excavation works, which 'aint happening!

I often trip the 60A incoming trip in the Winter - particularly as I heat electric!

The typical, modern "service" in the U.S. (new construction) is 200A at 240v.

60A service exists, but only older houses.

We upgraded from 60A because the kindest way to describe the old service was "potentially lethal."
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Message 983252 - Posted: 24 Mar 2010, 22:04:15 UTC - in response to Message 983251.  



We upgraded from 60A because the kindest way to describe the old service was "potentially lethal."


There is nothing lethal about mine. Try and draw too much it goes off - simple as that! Nothing gets hot, smells funny, whatever. It just doesn't let you draw more than 60A. It's only really a problem in the coldest of weather, but even less so now that I have a heat pump - so using a lot less current to heat the house & hot water.

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Message 983255 - Posted: 24 Mar 2010, 22:10:21 UTC - in response to Message 983251.  

Perhaps in the UK and Europe we are luck to run 230V mains, generally rated ar 13A. So, a crunching load draw of 4kw continuous will not trip the system or make the cables warm.

The cooker circuits are fused to 45A, and can be rigged for crunching use if any one really wanted. It will all come home to roost in the power bills.


My limit here is not the 32A ring mains or the 45A cooker feed, but the 60A incoming mains that I have, with no way of upgrading without major excavation works, which 'aint happening!

I often trip the 60A incoming trip in the Winter - particularly as I heat electric!

The typical, modern "service" in the U.S. (new construction) is 200A at 240v.

60A service exists, but only older houses.
We upgraded from 60A because the kindest way to describe the old service was "potentially lethal."

Yep, Los Angeles is mostly old 60 amp services but everything runs on Gas. We added A/C and an Electric range for my daughter-in-law and I upgraded her service for her. I have a 320/400 Amp service at my place, I upgraded when I decided to put all my ultilities underground a couple years ago. My wire actually ran from the street to an old pole in the backyard and then to an Oak tree and finally to my house and there were 3 houses on that line with #2 Al. I had 114 volts before and have 120 volts now. I paid for the new Transformer and put all the wire in schedule 80 PVC in case I add a parking lot someday. I also made the power company continue my Power Pole conduit (I had to run first 10 feet) using a level, mine is the only straight one on the street!
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Message 983257 - Posted: 24 Mar 2010, 22:14:46 UTC - in response to Message 983252.  



We upgraded from 60A because the kindest way to describe the old service was "potentially lethal."


There is nothing lethal about mine. Try and draw too much it goes off - simple as that! Nothing gets hot, smells funny, whatever. It just doesn't let you draw more than 60A. It's only really a problem in the coldest of weather, but even less so now that I have a heat pump - so using a lot less current to heat the house & hot water.

It is possible if you have tripped the breaker a number of times you could have a bad or weak breaker. Our house is not that old but we had a breaker that was abused and we needed to replace it.
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Message 983266 - Posted: 24 Mar 2010, 22:34:16 UTC - in response to Message 983257.  



We upgraded from 60A because the kindest way to describe the old service was "potentially lethal."


There is nothing lethal about mine. Try and draw too much it goes off - simple as that! Nothing gets hot, smells funny, whatever. It just doesn't let you draw more than 60A. It's only really a problem in the coldest of weather, but even less so now that I have a heat pump - so using a lot less current to heat the house & hot water.

It is possible if you have tripped the breaker a number of times you could have a bad or weak breaker. Our house is not that old but we had a breaker that was abused and we needed to replace it.


I'm sure it is working just fine. It only goes when the load is excessive. It hasn't tripped in weeks - i.e. since the weather got milder!
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Message 983271 - Posted: 24 Mar 2010, 22:37:02 UTC - in response to Message 983257.  
Last modified: 24 Mar 2010, 22:40:50 UTC



We upgraded from 60A because the kindest way to describe the old service was "potentially lethal."


There is nothing lethal about mine. Try and draw too much it goes off - simple as that! Nothing gets hot, smells funny, whatever. It just doesn't let you draw more than 60A. It's only really a problem in the coldest of weather, but even less so now that I have a heat pump - so using a lot less current to heat the house & hot water.

It is possible if you have tripped the breaker a number of times you could have a bad or weak breaker. Our house is not that old but we had a breaker that was abused and we needed to replace it.

I just replaced a breaker last week in a mobile home that the lights would dim every once in awhile and they had had another electrical company check it out. He was told it was a loose wire on the pole and the guy argued with the Power Company electrician for an hour and was really hot when he called me for his third opinion. It ended up being 1 side of a double throw single pole breaker. Part of the breaker worked and part worked most of the time. I could tell by just a bit of blackening caused by heat where it connected to the bus. He didn't believe me so I whacked the breaker and it started doing just what he described and was sure no one believed. Changed out the ITE breaker and all is fine and he is happy. His wife ended up being a good friend of my girlfriend so now they know who to call.
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Message 983273 - Posted: 24 Mar 2010, 22:40:41 UTC - in response to Message 983252.  



We upgraded from 60A because the kindest way to describe the old service was "potentially lethal."


There is nothing lethal about mine. Try and draw too much it goes off - simple as that! Nothing gets hot, smells funny, whatever. It just doesn't let you draw more than 60A. It's only really a problem in the coldest of weather, but even less so now that I have a heat pump - so using a lot less current to heat the house & hot water.

Yours was likely newer. The wiring between the disconnect and the meter (which was not enclosed or "sealed" against tampering) had fabric insulation, not rubber or plastic, and there were sections where it had simply flaked off.

I always made it a point to stand on a non-conductor if I was going to even look at it.
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