Message boards :
Cafe SETI :
How could we talk with ET ?
Message board moderation
Author | Message |
---|---|
Petit Soleil Send message Joined: 17 Feb 03 Posts: 1497 Credit: 70,934 RAC: 0 |
Do you think communicating with ET to be possible ? I have posted this on another thread and I thought it could be an interresting discussion. I personaly belive it is impossible. --- Communicating with ET ? Never. Have we ever been able to "communicate" with not so stupid species here on earth ? Appart from teaching animals things using threats... How could we ever communicate with ET ? We are all enjoying whales singing but after years of listenning, analysing, observing, watching, recording, ecetera, what do we know about their "language" ? Nothing. Now how could we expect to be able to communicate with a living things god knows how many LY away from US, where their and our radio signal would takes years to reach, not knowing what they look like, if they have ears, their culture, ecetera... SETI is a nice project for it might prove that "intelligent" life in the universe exist, but it would in no way allow us to Communicate with them. It would require years and years of mutual analyses and observations, assuming that it is possible, and that we don't kill each others for a stupid but most probable misunderstanding... I am thinking, is there a thread about that ? I guess not. I am going to start one right now, using what I've just wrote. Regards Marc <img src="http://boinc.mundayweb.com/one/stats.php?userID=2384&trans=off"><img src="http://img98.exs.cx/img98/1999/hamradio.gif"><img src="http://img54.exs.cx/img54/3872/cqkey.gif"> |
Scallywag Send message Joined: 23 May 04 Posts: 162 Credit: 100,318 RAC: 0 |
> Do you think communicating with ET to be possible ? > > I have posted this on another thread and I thought it > could be an interresting discussion. > > I personaly belive it is impossible. > > --- > > Communicating with ET ? Never. > > Have we ever been able to "communicate" with not so stupid species > here on earth ? Appart from teaching animals things using threats... > How could we ever communicate with ET ? We are all enjoying whales > singing but after years of listenning, analysing, observing, watching, > recording, ecetera, what do we know about their "language" ? Nothing. > > Now how could we expect to be able to communicate with a living things > god knows how many LY away from US, where their and our radio signal > would takes years to reach, not knowing what they look like, if they > have ears, their culture, ecetera... > > SETI is a nice project for it might prove that "intelligent" life in the > universe exist, but it would in no way allow us to Communicate with them. > It would require years and years of mutual analyses and observations, > assuming > that it is possible, and that we don't kill each others for a stupid but > most probable misunderstanding... > > I am thinking, is there a thread about that ? I guess not. > I am going to start one right now, using what I've just wrote. > > Regards > Marc > Animals (this also includes the cetaceas)have know direct methode of discribing there surroundings(Eg: Point here ,Oh thats an apple or pick up this ,Oh thats gernade)Humans do.Explorers comunicating with new other peoples years ago used this methode of translation.Also vertually all people on earth have some form of written language. Now for the sake of argument I'll assume that a species that has the technology to transmit over the vastness of space should most likley have a written language or at the least the abillity to discribe thier surroundings. Lets only hope that if whales start communicating to earth ,we have a vulcan standing by. Note:English and litature was not my strong subject in school. I Refuse to hold myself responsible for any of my actions. si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes |
Petit Soleil Send message Joined: 17 Feb 03 Posts: 1497 Credit: 70,934 RAC: 0 |
> Animals (this also includes the cetaceas)have know direct methode of > discribing there surroundings(Eg: Point here ,Oh thats an apple or pick up > this ,Oh thats gernade)Humans do.Explorers comunicating with new other peoples > years ago used this methode of translation.Also vertually all people on earth > have some form of written language. > Now for the sake of argument I'll assume that a species that has the > technology to transmit over the vastness of space should most likley have a > written language or at the least the abillity to discribe thier surroundings. > Lets only hope that if whales start communicating to earth ,we have a vulcan > standing by. > Note:English and litature was not my strong subject in school. No problem I fully understand your point. The gold plate we have put on voyager is discribing our surrounding, who we are, etc. But what if the ETs who found it see at a different electromagnetic wave spectrum then us? This plate would be nothing but a round golden plate for them... What would a round golden plate really mean for them ? Who knows, it might be a strong symbol of their "god" and they could all start fighting just to touch it... It could be anything. What if they are very very stupid and they send it back to god (us) with a sample of the bacteria currently destroying their civilisation, with a "meesage" asking for help ? How would we react to this bacteria? How we would understand their message? What I mean is the possibilities of not being able to "understand" each others are infinite. I always find it very funny when I watch a star treck kind of movie where everybody are humanoid and speaks english... |
Misfit Send message Joined: 21 Jun 01 Posts: 21804 Credit: 2,815,091 RAC: 0 |
I think this project can be best described in one word. Hope. First given the vastness of space you wouldnt be able to establish a meaningful dialogue thru radio waves. Present day Star Trek is science fiction and "subspace communication" doesnt exist. Seti would only be able to detect (and hopefully prove) ET's existance. Now what are the chances of detecting an alien signal? Almost nil given all the variables such as distance/time traveled, location, effects of gravity and intervening objects, power and frequency of signal. Unless the origin of the signal is 'relatively close' in astronomical terms I believe it would be totally up to random chance. Its like spinning a roulette wheel and hoping it lands on your number except there are hundreds of billions of numbers on the wheel. The odds are astronomical and it would take extreme luck. Lets say Planet X sends out a radio signal. The frequency of the transmission would have to be in the range that we are listening to. Then it would have to be aimed at the spot where Earth would be in X amount of years from where we are now, (where x=distance in light years from Planet X to Earth). The signal would have to be powerful enough to reach us before it could dissipate. The signal may be bent in direction, shifted in frequency, absorbed/deflected by all sorts of things like gravity, dust, etc. Then after all of this if the signal did reach Earth we would have to have an antenna up and running and recording, pointed in the exact direction of the incoming signal at the exact time the signal comes in, at the freq we are listening to, and last long enough for a proper analysis. You have a much better chance of hitting all 7 numbers (or whatever) in your local lottery. |
Petit Soleil Send message Joined: 17 Feb 03 Posts: 1497 Credit: 70,934 RAC: 0 |
> You have a much better chance of hitting all 7 numbers (or whatever) in your local lottery. I toataly agree on that. I would even had that one has more chance of winning that lottery for a few weeks in a row... |
Misfit Send message Joined: 21 Jun 01 Posts: 21804 Credit: 2,815,091 RAC: 0 |
|
Scallywag Send message Joined: 23 May 04 Posts: 162 Credit: 100,318 RAC: 0 |
> What if they are very very stupid and they send it back to god (us) with > a sample of the bacteria currently destroying their civilisation, with > a "meesage" asking for help ? > > How would we react to this bacteria? How we would understand their message? > > What I mean is the possibilities of not being able to "understand" each > others are infinite. Well, lets hope they can at least count.Math is about as universal of a language that we know of.But of course We base our math on ten because we have ten fingers.what if they have three or 18 fingers.Hmmm... If alien bacteria ever ever got loose on earth (even alien cold bacteria) we'd be screwed. I Refuse to hold myself responsible for any of my actions. si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes |
Scallywag Send message Joined: 23 May 04 Posts: 162 Credit: 100,318 RAC: 0 |
> > I get a kick out of area 51 conspiracy.Comical or not, does any one really belive that the US gov , men in black,or majestic twelve what have you, would hide alien bodies or hardware in a well publicized place such as Groom lake.I doubt it.More likley they would be hidden in a very remote place such as Alaska or in the mountains away from prying eyes. I Refuse to hold myself responsible for any of my actions. si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes |
Petit Soleil Send message Joined: 17 Feb 03 Posts: 1497 Credit: 70,934 RAC: 0 |
> Well, lets hope they can at least count.Math is about as universal of a > language that we know of.But of course We base our math on ten because we have > ten fingers.what if they have three or 18 fingers.Hmmm... > > If alien bacteria ever ever got loose on earth (even alien cold bacteria) we'd > be screwed. Well, I see the possiblity of using mathematic as a language in two aspects. 1) Are mathematics really a language ? Was 2+2=4 at the dynosore age ? Does numbers exist if there is nobody to think about it ? How did mathematics came to human mind ? Are mathematics really god's language like Pythagore, Platon, Galileo, Newton, Einstein, Feynman, Russel, and many others thought it was ? This era was called the Pythagorian mythology. Today's Physics says that mathematics are far from perfect and our theories describes our surrounding world with approximations only. 2) Some animals are able to make simple calculations. A bird has been observed waiting outside a Barn that everybody got out of it before he get back to his nest. The bird saw 1,2,3 and up to 7 peoples going in the barn. These people slowly got out of it by one at the time and group of two and three. Well that bird waited outside until all of the people got out. It shows that he can ad and substract. Could we "communicate" with this bird using mathematics ? Let say we are sending a prime numbers radio beacon. ET receives it and manage to understand that it is primes. What will it do ? They will think well these humanoids knows about prime numbers. Period. Could we call this communicate ? What kind of exchange mathematics would allow us to have with ET ? I am skeptical. |
Petit Soleil Send message Joined: 17 Feb 03 Posts: 1497 Credit: 70,934 RAC: 0 |
> I get a kick out of area 51 conspiracy.Comical or not, does any one really > belive that the US gov , men in black,or majestic twelve what have you, would > hide alien bodies or hardware in a well publicized place such as Groom lake.I > doubt it.More likley they would be hidden in a very remote place such as > Alaska or in the mountains away from prying eyes. I don't believe anything about Area51. It is a pure fantasy. But yes if it was true I would hide everything elsewhere, in a place no one would ever guess or suspect, In New York. |
Petit Soleil Send message Joined: 17 Feb 03 Posts: 1497 Credit: 70,934 RAC: 0 |
To borrow from the BABE thread Pharmacology's bio has a good explanation. She is cute (I have good Hungarian souvenir...)and I quite agree with what she says. We have more urgent problem here on earth to take care of then knowing if ET exist. |
Draconian Send message Joined: 16 Mar 03 Posts: 21 Credit: 1,809,058 RAC: 0 |
We spend a lot of time thinking that we are "great" "smart" etc, and in all fact, we REALLY know nothing. We recently had one of our probes make it out of our SOLAR SYSTEM (pioneer) . We are pretty...lame....when it comes to knowing our surroundings. Man, IMHO, is an amatuer - we are behind. If you are expecting contact from another civilization - they will make it obvious. Honestly, how advanced are we when it comes to beyond the planet? We are children. Hell, we haven't learned to stop fighting with each other (and I am military) which is one of the basic requirements of a truly global advanced society. We think we are all that..we are nothing. Do a search for Sagan Blue Dot. It's VERY good - we are nothing. |
The Ancient One Send message Joined: 9 Mar 03 Posts: 19 Credit: 969,405 RAC: 0 |
> I think this project can be best described in one word. Hope. > First given the vastness of space you wouldnt be able to establish a > meaningful dialogue thru radio waves. Present day Star Trek is science > fiction and "subspace communication" doesnt exist. Seti would only be able to > detect (and hopefully prove) ET's existance. > Now what are the chances of detecting an alien signal? Almost nil given all > the variables such as distance/time traveled, location, effects of gravity and > intervening objects, power and frequency of signal. Unless the origin of the > signal is 'relatively close' in astronomical terms I believe it would be > totally up to random chance. Its like spinning a roulette wheel and hoping it > lands on your number except there are hundreds of billions of numbers on the > wheel. The odds are astronomical and it would take extreme luck. Lets say > Planet X sends out a radio signal. The frequency of the transmission would > have to be in the range that we are listening to. Then it would have to be > aimed at the spot where Earth would be in X amount of years from where we are > now, (where x=distance in light years from Planet X to Earth). The signal > would have to be powerful enough to reach us before it could dissipate. The > signal may be bent in direction, shifted in frequency, absorbed/deflected by > all sorts of things like gravity, dust, etc. Then after all of this if the > signal did reach Earth we would have to have an antenna up and running and > recording, pointed in the exact direction of the incoming signal at the exact > time the signal comes in, at the freq we are listening to, and last long > enough for a proper analysis. You have a much better chance of hitting all 7 > numbers (or whatever) in your local lottery. >aaah! some one with a bit of brains. I've given thought to radio waves, but this would be to slow and the range limited. Now laser light.... fast, pin point and thousends of frequencies ideal for incripted measages. I think this is more like the communications or simualar, that would be used. "All man born has a right to life and no man born has the right to take that life" |
ChinookFoehn Send message Joined: 18 Apr 02 Posts: 462 Credit: 24,039 RAC: 0 |
|
Carl Cuseo Send message Joined: 18 Jan 02 Posts: 652 Credit: 34,312 RAC: 0 |
Unless we are unaware of it and it's already happened, one day ET will be among us waiting in line at the grocery store or sharpening his skills on the golf course. What a shame if when approached in order to have some communication he pulls out his dog-eared and coffee stained copy of 'The Pan-Galactic Bible' and starts spewing chapter and verse...cc <img src="http://boinc.mundayweb.com/seti2/stats.php?userID=27&trans=off"> |
The Ancient One Send message Joined: 9 Mar 03 Posts: 19 Credit: 969,405 RAC: 0 |
It seems that some people forget how our children learn to speak, wright and spell. They assume that ET hasn't the ability to decypher our language nor theirs. Not so long ago we learned new languages and ancient texts that had been long forgotten. So it is possible to learn other languages that are from cultures other than ours. It just means that both parties require starting with the basics like the Alphabet, numbers and pictures just like a child does. It my take many years to learn each otheres language to the level of fully understanding each othere without miss-understandings, But what fun it would be. You never know what technological or medical information could be exchanged to help both parties. "All man born has a right to life and no man born has the right to take that life" |
Misfit Send message Joined: 21 Jun 01 Posts: 21804 Credit: 2,815,091 RAC: 0 |
From Nov 9 to Apr 5 UTC. Well folks we just set a new record. |
blanketpower Send message Joined: 2 Mar 05 Posts: 13 Credit: 28,382 RAC: 0 |
> Not so long ago we learned new languages and ancient texts that had been long > forgotten. So it is possible to learn other languages that are from cultures > other than ours. It just means that both parties require starting with the > basics like the Alphabet, numbers and pictures just like a child does. Do not forget that culture and thought have evolved over time, so that we have a continuous set of "clues" in our anthropological and cultural history to use in deciphering ancient writing. We have a tremendous advantage in trying to decipher the thoughts of other human beings, relative to trying to communicate with ET. The greatest challenge comes if ET uses faculties other than our own for communication. For example, our communication is largely visual (writing, pictures) and auditory (speech, music). What if ET is blind and deaf, but has completely different senses that we do not have? He will find himself blind to our writing and deaf to our speech, and we will find ourselves likewise "blind and deaf" as far as ET's senses are concerned. All of a sudden we find outselves lacking the basic tool box with which to communicate. The reason that one uses mathematics is that we presume that without mathematics ET would not be able to manipulate his/her/its environment enough to communicate through space at all. It is a fair assumption to make, since any beings that use senses similar to our own will probably tend to exploit the laws of nature in a similar way to ourselves - "scientifically", which is to say "mathematically". |
RDC Send message Joined: 17 May 99 Posts: 544 Credit: 1,215,728 RAC: 0 |
> I think this project can be best described in one word. Hope. > Exactly. Hope that there is life out there, that they are at least as advanced as 20th century humans, that they utilize radio signals, etc. I too have thought of how communications would be established if signals of life exist. Mankind assumes that laws of mathmatics and physics are universal but who is to really say. They are universal in our observation as we can't see any other way that these laws could not be universal. A different civilization may have a completely different set mathmatics and physics laws it adheres to. It may communicate in methods other than radio waves. I do believe that there is life out there somewhere in the vast universe but I do question if we will ever really know for sure as we are using what we perceive as universal constants to do the search since that is all we know. Hope that these constants exist universally is what this project is built upon. To truly explore, one must keep an open mind... |
©2024 University of California
SETI@home and Astropulse are funded by grants from the National Science Foundation, NASA, and donations from SETI@home volunteers. AstroPulse is funded in part by the NSF through grant AST-0307956.