It just depends on what you search for as to what people say is happening...
Put "icesheet growing" into google and a bunch come up.

Antarctic Ice Sheet GROWING!

"Antarctica has 90 per cent of the Earth's ice and 80 per cent of its fresh water. Extensive melting of Antarctic ice sheets would be required to raise sea levels substantially, and ice is melting in parts of west Antarctica. The destabilisation of the Wilkins ice shelf generated international headlines this month.

However, the picture is very different in east Antarctica, which includes the territory claimed by Australia.

East Antarctica is four times the size of west Antarctica and parts of it are cooling. The Scientific Committee on Antarctic Research report prepared for last week's meeting of Antarctic Treaty nations in Washington noted the South Pole had shown "significant cooling in recent decades".

So the ice shelf broke up. There is a volcanic eruption going on under it.

Even without that. Is the shelf supposed to be a permanent feature that continues to grow until it reaches the equator? Eventually it will get big enough to break up even in the middle of an ice age.

Besides, it was floating already. Like ice in ice water, the level of the water cannot increase.

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Unvarnished
Haaretz
Jerusalem Post
The origin of the Yahweh Cult

Here's something to watch if you have the time. History channel's "Life After People" documentary.

Here are the parts in high quality:
Life After People | 1/9
Life After People | 2/9
Life After People | 3/9
Life After People | 4/9
Life After People | 5/9
Life After People | 6/9
Life After People | 7/9
Life After People | 8/9
Life After People | 9/9

Quite incredible. Somehow, it feels more "right" if humans didn't exist...

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- Luke.

Here's something to watch if you have the time. History channel's "Life After People" documentary.

Here are the parts in high quality:
Life After People | 1/9
Life After People | 2/9
Life After People | 3/9
Life After People | 4/9
Life After People | 5/9
Life After People | 6/9
Life After People | 7/9
Life After People | 8/9
Life After People | 9/9

Quite incredible. Somehow, it feels more "right" if humans didn't exist...

AWESOME series, and kind of cool that russia has a few towns that they can use to prove their theories....Not cool for Russia or their people, but hopefully we can learn so it isn't in vain.

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Official Abuser of Boinc Buttons...
And no good credit hound!

Here's something to watch if you have the time. History channel's "Life After People" documentary.

Here are the parts in high quality:
Life After People | 1/9
Life After People | 2/9
Life After People | 3/9
Life After People | 4/9
Life After People | 5/9
Life After People | 6/9
Life After People | 7/9
Life After People | 8/9
Life After People | 9/9

Quite incredible. Somehow, it feels more "right" if humans didn't exist...

AWESOME series, and kind of cool that russia has a few towns that they can use to prove their theories....Not cool for Russia or their people, but hopefully we can learn so it isn't in vain.

Geez hiamps, you watched that 1 hour 30 minute documentary quick! ;)

- Luke.

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- Luke.

What? I have watched it when it was on and have seen a couple a couple times. When they show here the channel repeats every 4 hours all night. Seems I watched them last summer.

EDIT: It is a whole series, after first episode they start with a few cities at a time.

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Official Abuser of Boinc Buttons...
And no good credit hound!

What worries me about the current "Climate Change" debate is the almost exclusive focus on C02 emissions and "greenhouse gases". What's being forgotten is that we're really talking about human-caused pollution of the air and water.

I'm old enough to remember what it was like before the US enacted the Clean Air Act and the Clean Water Act and formed the Environmental Protection Agency. I remember when the waters of the Hudson River in New York and Boston Harbor were dangerous to human health. I remember when the buildings in New York and LA were routinely obstructed by thick smog.

To claim that the burning of fossil fuels - which release far more than simply CO2 into the atmosphere - is not having an adverse impact on this planet is (IMHO) completely nuts.

It will take a serious, active and ongoing effort of all countries to reduce consumption and to create alternatives to fossil fuels. If we don't, we risk seriously damaging the Earth's ecosystem, of which humans are a part.

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Join the PACK!

I'm old enough to remember what it was like before the US enacted the Clean Air Act and the Clean Water Act and formed the Environmental Protection Agency. I remember when the waters of the Hudson River in New York and Boston Harbor were dangerous to human health. I remember when the buildings in New York and LA were routinely obstructed by thick smog.

I remember when the Cuyahoga River caught fire! I had to breathe those second stage smog alerts in LA.

No doubt there are too many humans on the planet.

What to do about it? War? Mandatory abortions? Forced sterilization?

As we continue to bread eventually no matter how much we reduce it won't be enough!

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No doubt there are too many humans on the planet.

What to do about it? War? Mandatory abortions? Forced sterilization?

As we continue to bread eventually no matter how much we reduce it won't be enough!

Actually it's not WE if you mean USA or Canada. Check out this list:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_territories_by_fertility_rate

My country is #183 and in a major decline. Probably explains our liberal immigration policies. Your country is #126 and is also in a negative decline, when you consult actuarial tables and factor in early deaths. Europe - again a major decline in most countries. Australia - a decline.

This next page has the latest stats for births per 1,000:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_birth_rate

It will be interesting to see what the ethnic tapestry will look like on planet Earth in 50 years and where the highest population densities are. It appears that there will have to be major migrations to USA, Canada, Europe and Australia in order to balance out population densities.

No doubt there are too many humans on the planet.

What to do about it? War? Mandatory abortions? Forced sterilization?

As we continue to bread eventually no matter how much we reduce it won't be enough!

Actually it's not WE if you mean USA or Canada. Check out this list:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_territories_by_fertility_rate

My country is #183 and in a major decline. Probably explains our liberal immigration policies. Your country is #126 and is also in a negative decline, when you consult actuarial tables and factor in early deaths. Europe - again a major decline in most countries. Australia - a decline.

This next page has the latest stats for births per 1,000:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_birth_rate

That's fine, but it isn't a true picture. You also need to subtract the deaths from the births. Then you need to factor in the carbon and other greenhouse gas emissions per person for each country less what the plant life in the country absorbs per acre with an eye to how much forest is converted to farms or city with population changes. Then decide how to rank, per country, or per square acre, or per $ GDP, or per average IQ, or what. It isn't going to be easy.

The EU human rights people will go nuts when they finally realize the only solution is wholesale genocide and we can't afford welfare or any kind. Everyone will have to pull a full share of weight. No exceptions, no compassion, just Darwin's law. After all you can't suspend the laws of physics.

<irony>
What I don't get is why the same people are pushing for carbon cutbacks are pushing for health care reform in the USA. Don't they know that a person in the USA uses more carbon than anyone else? Why do they want to lengthen their lives so they produce even more carbon? Shouldn't they be campaigning to make health care harder to get in the USA to shorten life spans?

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No doubt there are too many humans on the planet.

What to do about it? War? Mandatory abortions? Forced sterilization?

As we continue to bread eventually no matter how much we reduce it won't be enough!

Actually it's not WE if you mean USA or Canada. Check out this list:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_territories_by_fertility_rate

My country is #183 and in a major decline. Probably explains our liberal immigration policies. Your country is #126 and is also in a negative decline, when you consult actuarial tables and factor in early deaths. Europe - again a major decline in most countries. Australia - a decline.

This next page has the latest stats for births per 1,000:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_birth_rate

That's fine, but it isn't a true picture. You also need to subtract the deaths from the births. Then you need to factor in the carbon and other greenhouse gas emissions per person for each country less what the plant life in the country absorbs per acre with an eye to how much forest is converted to farms or city with population changes. Then decide how to rank, per country, or per square acre, or per $ GDP, or per average IQ, or what. It isn't going to be easy.

The EU human rights people will go nuts when they finally realize the only solution is wholesale genocide and we can't afford welfare or any kind. Everyone will have to pull a full share of weight. No exceptions, no compassion, just Darwin's law. After all you can't suspend the laws of physics.

<irony>
What I don't get is why the same people are pushing for carbon cutbacks are pushing for health care reform in the USA. Don't they know that a person in the USA uses more carbon than anyone else? Why do they want to lengthen their lives so they produce even more carbon? Shouldn't they be campaigning to make health care harder to get in the USA to shorten life spans?

Don't feel like looking it up but I kind of think China uses more carbon than the US...Aww what the heck, I am right...


Largest carbon footprint

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Official Abuser of Boinc Buttons...
And no good credit hound!

Don't feel like looking it up but I kind of think China uses more carbon than the US...Aww what the heck, I am right...


Largest carbon footprint

But that isn't per person. Since China has 1/5 of the people I'd be shocked if they didn't lead.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population

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Don't feel like looking it up but I kind of think China uses more carbon than the US...Aww what the heck, I am right...


Largest carbon footprint

But that isn't per person. Since China has 1/5 of the people I'd be shocked if they didn't lead.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population

Well the way we farm all our jobs out to other countries, shouldn't be long before they catch up...Then we won't look so bad.
There are so many countries that dump so much pollution in the air that I doubt a carbon footprint is really fair. Countries with larger populations can pollute without restraint but that is OK as they have a smaller per person footprint than the Bad ol USA...We probably fart twice as much as everyone else also...

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Official Abuser of Boinc Buttons...
And no good credit hound!

...We probably fart twice as much as everyone else also...

Actually we do here in Canada; our Beer is leaded :-)

Took me a while to figure out why the covers were blown off the bed. I thought the wife was hogging them.

I'm off to bed - it's 1am here. Goodnight all!

It just depends on what you search for as to what people say is happening...
Put "icesheet growing" into google and a bunch come up.

Antarctic Ice Sheet GROWING!

... However, the picture is very different in east Antarctica, which includes the territory claimed by Australia.

East Antarctica is four times the size of west Antarctica and parts of it are cooling. The Scientific Committee on Antarctic Research report prepared for last week's meeting of Antarctic Treaty nations in Washington noted the South Pole had shown "significant cooling in recent decades".

Australian Antarctic Division glaciology program head Ian Allison said sea ice losses in west Antarctica over the past 30 years had been more than offset by increases in the Ross Sea region, just one sector of east Antarctica.

"Sea ice conditions have remained stable in Antarctica generally," Dr Allison said"

Well, that quote is total utter deliberately misleading bunkum (or insert whatever derogatory term for a "leading people along the garden path"...). It is very likely completely false, or at best a "misquote". I wonder what and where the original quote is...

Note that host website is hidden behind a "privacy protection" front address. Also note that the website is somewhat new. They obviously don't want to be 'found out'... Is it a FUD lobbying Marketing front?...

What Dr Allison actually has said can be found in these articles:

Four Australian scientists have their say on climate change issues (See the 3rd comment for Dr Allison)

RAPID ROUNDUP: Climate scientists and Lead Authors respond to IPCC Climate Change Report (2007)


Comment on the particular newspaper article is given in:

Propaganda & scepticism toward climate science


So, the denialists are so desperate that they now have got to make it all up for their own fabrications! Next bit of stupidity?


Regards,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

It just depends on what you search for as to what people say is happening...
Put "icesheet growing" into google and a bunch come up.

Antarctic Ice Sheet GROWING!

... However, the picture is very different in east Antarctica, which includes the territory claimed by Australia.

East Antarctica is four times the size of west Antarctica and parts of it are cooling. The Scientific Committee on Antarctic Research report prepared for last week's meeting of Antarctic Treaty nations in Washington noted the South Pole had shown "significant cooling in recent decades".

Australian Antarctic Division glaciology program head Ian Allison said sea ice losses in west Antarctica over the past 30 years had been more than offset by increases in the Ross Sea region, just one sector of east Antarctica.

"Sea ice conditions have remained stable in Antarctica generally," Dr Allison said"

Well, that quote is total utter deliberately misleading bunkum (or insert whatever derogatory term for a "leading people along the garden path"...). It is very likely completely false, or at best a "misquote". I wonder what and where the original quote is...

Note that host website is hidden behind a "privacy protection" front address. Also note that the website is somewhat new. They obviously don't want to be 'found out'... Is it a FUD lobbying Marketing front?...

What Dr Allison actually has said can be found in these articles:

Four Australian scientists have their say on climate change issues (See the 3rd comment for Dr Allison)

RAPID ROUNDUP: Climate scientists and Lead Authors respond to IPCC Climate Change Report (2007)


Comment on the particular newspaper article is given in:

Propaganda & scepticism toward climate science


So, the denialists are so desperate that they now have got to make it all up for their own fabrications! Next bit of stupidity?


Regards,
Martin

OK MArtin, All I did was a google search to get info JUST like you do. I guess you only accept it if it fits your views? I know you are not a scientist that has done any of these studies youtself. Funny that you are the final word on truth.
"So, the denialists are so desperate that they now have got to make it all up for their own fabrications! Next bit of stupidity?"
And the Extremists depend on name calling....All I am doing is trying to find things as you bring them up. And that is only because I believe you are too extreme. There are so many things being worked on to reduce pollution but unfortunately it will take some time and I know you can't seem to see that. I don't want to breathe dirty air any more than you, but I won't make up lies to get it cleaner.

---

Official Abuser of Boinc Buttons...
And no good credit hound!

Hey I have a question. Why is it that we never see anyone outside traffic light manufacturers protesting? Talk about wasteing energy and causing pollution. They have to be some of the biggest offenders in the World. Take for instance, I drive to the mocha shop to get my morning mocha. Up to3 weeks ago it was 1 minute each way. Now since they upgraded the intersections the lights are always red even though no one is coming. It has turned the 1 minute trip into 5 minutes, multiply that by a few billion. Just making traffic lights intelligent would save millions of gallons of gas, peoples time and help the air massively. Just curious since that is one that could probably gain support but never heard mentioned.

---

Official Abuser of Boinc Buttons...
And no good credit hound!

Hey I have a question. Why is it that we never see anyone outside traffic light manufacturers protesting? Talk about wasting energy and causing pollution. They have to be some of the biggest offenders in the World. Take for instance, I drive to the mocha shop to get my morning mocha. Up to3 weeks ago it was 1 minute each way. Now since they upgraded the intersections the lights are always red even though no one is coming. It has turned the 1 minute trip into 5 minutes, multiply that by a few billion. Just making traffic lights intelligent would save millions of gallons of gas, peoples time and help the air massively. Just curious since that is one that could probably gain support but never heard mentioned.

I just moved to Burlington. I ride my bike 11 miles to work. The bloody traffic lights are always red for me. Makes my 40 minute trip into a 50 minute trip. The locals have been complaining about this to Burlington City Hall for years.

Maybe the traffic light guys are in bed with the gasoline guys...

Hey I have a question. Why is it that we never see anyone outside traffic light manufacturers protesting? Talk about wasting energy and causing pollution. They have to be some of the biggest offenders in the World. Take for instance, I drive to the mocha shop to get my morning mocha. Up to3 weeks ago it was 1 minute each way. Now since they upgraded the intersections the lights are always red even though no one is coming. It has turned the 1 minute trip into 5 minutes, multiply that by a few billion. Just making traffic lights intelligent would save millions of gallons of gas, peoples time and help the air massively. Just curious since that is one that could probably gain support but never heard mentioned.

I just moved to Burlington. I ride my bike 11 miles to work. The bloody traffic lights are always red for me. Makes my 40 minute trip into a 50 minute trip. The locals have been complaining about this to Burlington City Hall for years.

Maybe the traffic light guys are in bed with the gasoline guys...

Would that make it a Red Light District?

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Official Abuser of Boinc Buttons...
And no good credit hound!

Maybe the traffic light guys are in bed with the gasoline guys...

Would that make it a Red Light District?

Ha-Ha. You've got to go to Toronto or Niagara Falls for that (not that I talk from experience) ;-)

It just depends on what you search for as to what people say is happening...
Put "icesheet growing" into google and a bunch come up.

Antarctic Ice Sheet GROWING!

[...]
Australian Antarctic Division glaciology program head Ian Allison said sea ice losses in west Antarctica over the past 30 years had been more than offset by increases in the Ross Sea region, just one sector of east Antarctica. ...

Well, that quote is total utter deliberately misleading bunkum ... very likely completely false, or at best a "misquote". I wonder what and where the original quote is...

Note that host website is hidden behind a "privacy protection" front address. Also note that the website is somewhat new. They obviously don't want to be 'found out'... Is it a FUD lobbying Marketing front?...

What Dr Allison actually has said can be found in these articles:

Four Australian scientists have their say on climate change issues (See the 3rd comment for Dr Allison)

RAPID ROUNDUP: Climate scientists and Lead Authors respond to IPCC Climate Change Report (2007)


Comment on the particular newspaper article is given in:

Propaganda & scepticism toward climate science


So, the denialists are so desperate that they now have got to make it all up for their own fabrications! Next bit of stupidity?

OK MArtin, All I did was a google search to get info JUST like you do. I guess you only accept it if it fits your views?

Not at all. I try to keep to what is best understood to be truth and reality.

I've merely shown yet another tiring bit of denialist FUD from an unreliable website showing a blatantly distorted quote from a scientist who in reality says nothing like what the mis-quote implies.

Offer a credible quote/reference or reliable information and I'll be interested. All the denialist FUD and silliness that has been offered in these threads so far are almost along the lines of the old UFO and Area51 'conspiracies' of old.

I know you are not a scientist that has done any of these studies youtself. Funny that you are the final word on truth.

I claim no 'authority' other than honest engineering and scientific sense.

Strange how there have been NO references or papers offered that are reliable and trustworthy that show there is no pollution or climate problem. There is however an awful lot of denialist FUD and 'conspiracies' to try to fillibuster the real issues.


Please offer your "global cooling" link for a respected and open source that can be contacted. To give you a hint... Look up about the (localised) effects of the Antarctic ozone hole... However, also note the context for what you might discover. (No need for lies.)

"So, the denialists are so desperate that they now have got to make it all up for their own fabrications! Next bit of stupidity?"

And the Extremists depend on name calling....All I am doing is trying to find things as you bring them up. And that is only because I believe you are too extreme. There are so many things being worked on to reduce pollution but unfortunately it will take some time and I know you can't seem to see that. I don't want to breathe dirty air any more than you, but I won't make up lies to get it cleaner.

No lies needed. Sorry, but your link proved to be unreliable and a misquote at that. Read where the quote likely came from and the full articles that I kindly linked from just cross-checking the article and source.


Is there a new strategy appearing for the denialists? That of: Admit to global warming (because its so overwhelmingly obvious and politically accepted now) but move on to a new argument for procrastination instead?


Media articles and web lobbying/Marketing that lie and deceive are bad regardless of the bias or subject. Unfortunately, the "climate change denial" websites and lobbyists appear to be getting ever more desperate to push their alternate head-in-the-sand view... For power company money or for the sake of some sort of denial?...

Regards,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)